mid term effects?

[Heywould]

Does anyone have any idea what the possible short to mid term effect of the juice is? now i understand that cigarettes have lots of junk in them that is known to cause cancer and other issues BUT we also know that in most cases this is a slow process that shortens your life etc.

my real question is what is going to happen to people that inhale this vapor for any length of time? i know that no know cancer causing chemicals are in this.

i am afraid that we are going to find out that we are going to get some lung disease or worse due to some unforeseen issues with inhaling VG or PG.

anyone have any data that can ease my mind?

 

[316lvm]

Hey HeyWould -

As far as I know, there haven't been any studies done on the long term effects of vapping. The only place that I can think of that might answer some of your questions would be in the Medical part of the forums. I recall someone mentioning a study done by New Zealand that might be helpful.

Sorry I can't be more helpful. Maybe someone else with more knowledge in this area will respond.

 

[Scott EE]

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

page 4 and 5 regarding the studies on rats and monkey's exposed to high concentrations of PG.

 

[glennnnnnn]

my real question is what is going to happen to people that inhale this vapor for any length of time? i know that no know cancer causing chemicals are in this.

Nobody knows yet, I read they were only invented in 2003

anyone have any data that can ease my mind?

No, but how about a lack of data to the contrary, and believe me if the tobacco industry had any, they would be shouting it from the rooftops

Given the choice between vaping and smoking, Im pretty sure i know where I stand

Hopefully some one will be along soon with some real facts

Glenn

 

[Heywould]

thanks guys for the info.

is the source of the study a real one? i mean are we sure it wasnt some e-cig company making it up? i hate to be so sceptical but i read the data sheet and it sounds a bit suspicious to me.. this in particular seems odd.

"Inhalational safety in children. In a series of experiments to control airborne infections,
over 105 children were subjected to bactericidal concentrations of propylene glycol in the
wards of a children’s convalescent home in experiments conducted over 3 years.
Method. Six wards of the Children’s Seashore House in Atlanta containing 105 bedfast
children aged 3 to 15 years were divided into 3 control and 3 undergoing vaporization for
3 week periods with 2 to 3 days between, before the control wards become vaporized, and
the vaporized wards became controls. This rotation continued for 7 months. The PG was
heated to vaporize it, but not above 80 degrees C, and vaporization continuously
maintained a concentration of 0.069 mg per liter. (0.07 ppm)"

are they saying the tested this on kids that were bed ridden? man i cant believe that..

asside from that if the results are true then it looks like it may be ok..

 

[Heywould]

No, but how about a lack of data to the contrary, and believe me if the tobacco industry had any, they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

maybe but lack of data period could be the reason. i mean it may have some unknown side effects like your feet will shrink if if breath PV to much... i dont know.. but seriously I know smoking can cause cancer the key word is CAN not WILL.. but is there something that PG or VG WILL do after a period? thats what im looking for.

Given the choice between vaping and smoking, Im pretty sure i know where I stand

i agree mostly with this but what if? i mean what if inhaling PV WILL absolutely cause some issue with a body? we all know smoking WIll shorten your life and it MAY cause cancer or heart/lung disease.

if PG/VG will absolutely cause brain tumors or shorten your life by 20 years then i say smoking may be a better choice.

for the record i do vape and i have quit smoking but im constantly nagged by the thoughts of possible short to mid term effects.

im sorry i feel that way, i just want to know..

you know the old saying. " if it sounds to good to be true it most likely is" this sounds to good to be true..

 

[Scott EE]

You can simply google the information you seek it is readily available just spell it correctly. Propylene Glycol. Studies date back to the 1940's for use as an air germicide. And you probably have consumed it in one fashion or another your entire life as it is present in many everyday items like food, cosmetics, lotions and the list goes on.

They inject this stuff directly into people in hospitals for diazepam/vallium solutions. Not sure about other drugs but diazepam was directly mentioned in my research.

 

[Heywould]

You can simply google the information you seek it is readily available just spell it correctly. Propylene Glycol. Studies date back to the 1940's for use as an air germicide. And you probably have consumed it in one fashion or another your entire life as it is present in many everyday items like food, cosmetics, lotions and the list goes on.

They inject this stuff directly into people in hospitals for diazepam/vallium solutions. Not sure about other drugs but diazepam was directly mentioned in my research.

see that would have been too easy. duh.. sorry, thanks. i guess it is possible that its ok any it likely is, but for some reason i have the feeling/worry that im going to find out something thats goint to make me regret this..

im going to just take it for granted that it is ok, it HAS to be. cigarettes have sooooo much crap in them that all or mosly cause illness and even death.

ill just let this rest and see how it turns out.

thanks again all.

 

[Raven1]

thanks guys for the info.

is the source of the study a real one? i mean are we sure it wasnt some e-cig company making it up? i hate to be so sceptical but i read the data sheet and it sounds a bit suspicious to me.. this in particular seems odd.

"Inhalational safety in children. In a series of experiments to control airborne infections,
over 105 children were subjected to bactericidal concentrations of propylene glycol in the
wards of a children’s convalescent home in experiments conducted over 3 years.
Method. Six wards of the Children’s Seashore House in Atlanta containing 105 bedfast
children aged 3 to 15 years were divided into 3 control and 3 undergoing vaporization for
3 week periods with 2 to 3 days between, before the control wards become vaporized, and
the vaporized wards became controls. This rotation continued for 7 months. The PG was
heated to vaporize it, but not above 80 degrees C, and vaporization continuously
maintained a concentration of 0.069 mg per liter. (0.07 ppm)"

are they saying the tested this on kids that were bed ridden? man i cant believe that..

asside from that if the results are true then it looks like it may be ok..

The study was funded by Ruyan, the e-cig manufacturer in question in that report. So yes, that does seem rather suspicious, though it's stated that it's an unbiased report. (I'm trying to copy and paste from that report, but for some odd reason my computer won't let me!) There's also a section in there that states theatrical workers studied for long-term inhalation of stage fog (PG is one of the ingredients used in stage fog) showed significant decrease in lung function. However, it doesn't state whether the ingredients in the stage fog was indeed PG (could have been dry ice or another ingredient).

This concerns me as well as I have COPD and certainly don't want to exacerbate my condition. Been vaping a couple months now and am not noticing much in the way of lung function improvement.

 

[doots]

I dont think anyone can give you assurances..

It is the chance we take with the limited knowledge we have of the
vapor at this time.

Time will tell// Hope it's good news.

 

[Scott EE]

One thing that concerns me with PG is whether or not the suppliers I order from are indeed selling me USP grade. The industrial grade is not as pure. So really it comes down to finding a trusted supplier that is selling me the real deal.

I wonder if they use industrial grade PG in smoke machines or do they use the pharmaceutical grade?

 

[Raven1]

I dont think anyone can give you assurances..



It is the chance we take with the limited knowledge we have of the

vapor at this time.



Time will tell// Hope it's good news.

Yeah I know. Well at least it isn't tobacco smoke. Just wish we could get an independent study done with some better conclusions drawn.

 

[martha1014]

I'm not really worried what it will do to me later. At least we don't know. Now with cigarettes we already know what is going to happen. It has already started to happen to me COPD. Ecigs have to be better than cigarettes. My health has already improved 100%. I can actually breathe again. At least with ecigs I can be free of symptoms for a longer period of time. How can we worry about the effects of ecig when we were killing ourselves with cigarettes. Worry about something else.

 

[Heywould]

i agree that on the surface it is better to use ecig than cigarettes, and from what little i could find it seems like it may be fine long term too. my only issue is that will it do anything.. its hard for me to explain. i know smoking is known to cause illness BUT!! it doesnt cause illness to everyone for sure, AND its a slow process.. again its hard for me to explain myself,

let me try to give an example... lets say i smoke cigarettes for the rest of my life. i may get cancer, i may get heart or lung disease. it will likely shorten my life ( by how much depends on the person) this is all known about cigarettes.

Now.. lets look at it like this.... lets say i quit cigarettes and start e-cigs. now im in mostly unknown territory, what if e-cig WILL make you blind? or deaf? or cause kidney failure? like taking an acute poison or something...

again from what i read its not likely BUT it is possible. with cigarettes i know where i stand with these i dont have a clue.

at this point if i had to choose ( and i did) i would and have choose e-cig over cigarettes all day long. i started this thread to try to ease my mind from the nagging feeling that im doing something that while better over all then cigarettes will cause a major health problem that cigarettes wouldnt have or would have much later in life.

does this make sense? for some reason i cant seem to make clear what im worried about

 

[TropicalBob]

Concern makes sense, Heywould, when something "new" is explored.

But your concerns really have been answered. WE are the short-term answer. I've e-smoked two years. I certainly have better medical test results than I did on cigarettes, before I switched to e-cigs. To me, I'm conclusive proof that short-term use has no negative health consequences.

Tests dating back to the 40s -- confirmed over and over -- provide a longer term answer. The only consequence of daily heavy inhalation of propylene glycol vapor is a small weight gain.

In rats, in monkeys, in adults, in children. Nothing else.

The Health New Zealand trial was financed by Ruyan, by the way, but the cited medical paragraph did not result from those studies, but from unbiased studies decades ago.

What we can't say with certainty is that lifetime inhalation of PG or VG vapor is safe. We can say with certainty that it is likely -- likely -- many magnitudes safer than the known health hazards of inhaling tobacco smoke. Every day of your life is a gamble. You stack odds in your favor by informed decisions; then you get out of bed and try to make it the best day possible.

If you want to get off cigarettes, and not inhale anything, then consider the proven alternatives of Swedish snus and English nasal snuff.

I use it all.

And, remember, the stress of worry shortens life and makes the quantity miserable.

 

[nasti]

I totally agree.
good insight.

as george carlin would say, "take a .....ing chance"

 

[Moonflame]

Also think about the fact that all inhaled asthma medicine (in inhalers or nebulizers) are in a PG solution. They also use PG to suspend the medicine they give lung transplant patients to inhale. These things make me not worry at all about inhaling PG over the long term. My Hubby has been using an asthma inhaler every day from the time he was 18 months old. He has not gone blind, gotten a brain tumor, or had kidney failure. There are times when I think he has lost his ability to think, but I believe that's because testosterone rots the brain .

 

[Numanoid]

Also think about the fact that all inhaled asthma medicine (in inhalers or nebulizers) are in a PG solution. They also use PG to suspend the medicine they give lung transplant patients to inhale. These things make me not worry at all about inhaling PG over the long term. My Hubby has been using an asthma inhaler every day from the time he was 18 months old. He has not gone blind, gotten a brain tumor, or had kidney failure. There are times when I think he has lost his ability to think, but I believe that's because testosterone rots the brain .

I just learned this today when doing some googling and, for me, this is absolutely the best evidence I've seen that PG is safe to inhale. There is no way that we would not have seen clinical data showing PG based problems in nebulizer users.

 

[W Axl Rose]

I would actually be more concerned about the flavorings used in e juice than I would be about pg or vg. Just my .02