Misinformation?

[Vanisle]

Hello everyone. I know I am fairly new here and have found a wealth of information and am learning a ton however, tonight a question was asked by a new ECF member that I replied too correctly however there were a few members that posted in the thread with incorrect information.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great place but I do ask that if you are going to reply to a post/thread please, please, please provide correct and accurate information. I, as I am sure we all do in no way want to mislead anyone with the wrong information.

Thank you one and all for your time and patience with the new members and the passing on your knowledge.

 

[UntamedRose]

Curious what you thought was misinformation?

 

[NCC]

I see misinformation posted quite frequently. Especially in, but not limited to, the New Members Area.

 

[Vanisle]

Curious what you thought was misinformation?

Telling new members that PG which can be found in numerous everyday products Is Not in newer and safer antifreeze and De-Icing fluid used on Aircraft when is in fact a component of both of these. We need to be very accurate in the information given out.

 

[CaptJay]

PG is in everything - including misters in hospitals to comabt swine flu, toothpastes, kids cough syrup and probably motor oil for all I know lol - Its also in cigs and my anti-bacterial cream and some pills I got from the doc recently - I wouldnt be surprised to find its in my clothing - I had no idea how widely used it is before I vaped. I did know it was in safe antifreeze as well - mainly because it really IS in pretty much everything else The issue is that if you mention anti freeze then many people stop reading at that point and just focus on that one thing and not the myraid other things its in. But if its safe enough for lung patients and kids then thats good enough for me.

 

[Vanisle]

Captjay I could not agree with you more.

This was the original question: vaporized liquid nicotine also contain glycol {the same thing as car antifreeze}

This was my reply : Propylene Glycol is in fact in the e-juice however it is also in many every day use products such as mouthwash, toothpaste, shampoo, makup etc. it is a product that has been found fit for human consumption by the FDA and others. Do a wikipedia search on it and you will see. This was also a concern my wife had and once I showed her the facts she was more than willing to try vaping.

No names an no pack drill but here is one of the replies that led to this topic. no...it's ethylene glycol that is in antifreeze,propylene glycol is what is the carrier for the flavoring in ejuice. They are two very different chemicals

All I am asking is if someone asks a question give them an accurate answer.

 

[coffee]

Not only do I support the OP, but also pray to the forum Gods to fix this via more rules or tougher mods.

 

[leannebug]

You want more rules and tougher mods? .... And you'd like people to only post the correct information? That's a little tricky and a very gray area.

This is a forum for sharing ideas, thoughts, opinions, beliefs (yes, there is a place for that too), and facts and information too. Problem; there is often more than one side, and more than one opinion. Facts can change too. Remember when margarine was better for you than butter?.. and then butter was better? So who was right, when?

Yes, it is best to provide the most accurate information, in the most non-confortational manner. It is better to be accepting and to be open to new ideas, to trying new things, etc, etc.. I could go on all day. But it's really not very realistic, nor is it beneficial to us, to have it moderated in such a way that we can only post under the strictest of guidelines.

So, what do we do? We just have to be careful in what we read (and read, read, read some more). We have to try get as much information as we can, and the best information that is available at that time. And share what we know. We may educate someone in the process, or we may be educated ourselves.

 

[CaptJay]

Captjay I could not agree with you more.

This was the original question: vaporized liquid nicotine also contain glycol {the same thing as car antifreeze}

This was my reply : Propylene Glycol is in fact in the e-juice however it is also in many every day use products such as mouthwash, toothpaste, shampoo, makup etc. it is a product that has been found fit for human consumption by the FDA and others. Do a wikipedia search on it and you will see. This was also a concern my wife had and once I showed her the facts she was more than willing to try vaping.

No names an no pack drill but here is one of the replies that led to this topic. no...it's ethylene glycol that is in antifreeze,propylene glycol is what is the carrier for the flavoring in ejuice. They are two very different chemicals

All I am asking is if someone asks a question give them an accurate answer.

While that reply that you quote may have been incomplete I'm sure the poster had no intention to mislead anyone - the FDA were banging on about Ethylene and diethylene glycol (and possibly some other glycols that Im unaware of) and those are certainly NOT in ejuice but its one of those points that non vapers tend to get overly excited about, so the mention that yes in fact there IS PG in anti freeze too has the unfortunate effect of them hearing ' I am vaping anti freeze' instead of the more accurate 'this stuff is in everything including your wheaties'. I think its probably in the sticky posts in the Library about what its used for or a link to the lists.
Here's my take on it though - even IF it had the bad glycol (whatever name it is lol) Id still use it. Why? Because its still 3 thousand bad chemicals less than cigarettes have. I was smoking bits of arsenic and radioactive stuff in my cigs (apparently) so I think the moral highground left me some years back

 

[Java_Az]

Not only do I support the OP, but also pray to the forum Gods to fix this via more rules or tougher mods.

Personally i don't see the big deal here. Couple people didn't know all the facts and posted up what they thought to be the truth. I really don't think they were trying to purposely mislead anyone. I think anyone with forum experience knows that your not going to get 100% correct answers in a forum. Really it worked out as they were corrected and pretty sure they learned something. If you ask me that's alot of what this is about. Not only is this a place for info it can be a place to learn from our mistakes. No one is correct 100% of the time. If you see someone that has posted something that is not correct , correct them in a nice way and be sure to include a source for facts to prove it. Problem solved. we don't need rules or anything for this unless it is someone deliberately putting out bad info. I mean really how would you enforce something like that, give out Vaping tests to new users and if they don't pass they cant post. I say don't fix something that's not broken. Nothing at all wrong with these forums and the current rule set.

 

[coffee]

You want more rules and tougher mods? ....

Personally i don't see the big deal here......

I appreciate your replies. The idea isn't about making the forums more strict and limit the wonderful community spirit here, no, definitely not. The idea, at least in my head, is to encourage a culture were facts are stated and treated differently than opinions, facts clearly supported with relevant material, opinions clearly presented as such, doubt clearly highlighted, etc.

I guess, as a newcomer to these forums, these "cultural" things are too obvious to me, along with the very, very, friendly and welcoming nature of this community

Maybe more rules and tougher mods at least when it come to health related stuff?

 

[leannebug]

We TRY and be friendly (although it's often hard to convey the spoken words into the written), so I do hope that comes through! If you stick around long enough, you will see that is the case.

What you've stated, is one of the reasons the forum is under going drastic changes. The "powers that be" have come to realize that (as a newcomer) it's difficult to navigate and FIND all the wonderful (and vast!) information here at ECF. They are revamping the site to "start" at a new portal.

The new website will have links and sections to the correct information. It should be laid out in a professional and easy to navigate layout. This should help the noobie vapor and make learning about ecigs a whole lot easier! The forums will remain the same, but you will link to them from the main portal.

Information about CMS website

 

[kushka]

I appreciate your replies. The idea isn't about making the forums more strict and limit the wonderful community spirit here, no, definitely not. The idea, at least in my head, is to encourage a culture in the forum were facts are stated and treated differently than opinions, facts clearly supported with relevant material, opinions clearly presented as such, doubt clearly highlighted, etc.

I guess, as a newcomers to these forums, these "cultural" things are obvious to me, along with the very, very, friendly and welcoming nature of this community

Maybe more rules and tougher mods at least when it come to health related stuff?

How are they suppose to do that? How are they to judge who is right and wrong? Are you going to pay them to do the hours of research needed to determine that user 'coffee' has posted information that appears to be more correct (at least in relationship to current scientific information) while user 'tea' is a bit off base? And post it - and even if they did so - why should the reader of the post assume that the moderator is more correct then poster tea - who's post happens to be more in line with the readers own prejudices?

If someone post something I think is misleading and wrong - I spend my own time looking up sources of what I believe is the correct info - then I post the relevant quotes from the sources I found - and then challenge the poster of the incorrect info to quote his own source.

The moderators are not sources of all 'correct' information - they are just volunteers doing the best they can to keep this forum going. They have neither the time nor resources (and probably none of the desire) to settle every dispute between users (not even every dispute involving health related stuff (for example I myself think that vaping anything in ones lungs is an extremely bad idea, the fact that I spend every waking hour do so notwithstanding, do you thing the moderators what to spend hours doing the research needed to disprove my thesis?)

If you want to be sure this forum post only correct information - then look up the 'correct' info up and post with sources - and please do be too surprised in your studies to find that what you were sure was 100% 'correct' is still subject to debate.

 

[keyzygirl]

PG is in the newer safer,animal and child safe antifreeze,NOT the same as the sweet flavored poison your pet antifreeze.OK?Lets not nitpick when so many people give their time and effort to help and share.If someone gives the wrong info,20 people will come in and make it right.Its been working for us so far.

 

[Auntbeast]

OMG! Someone on the internet is wrong! Like most things, there is an XKCD for that.

Since the information here is posted by untold thousands of users, errors will be made. However, the vast majority of the information here is right on target, the users are friendly, almost to a fault and helpful and conscientious.

Welcome

 

[coffee]

How are they suppose to do that? How are they to judge who is right and wrong? Are you going to pay them to do the hours of research needed to determine that user 'coffee' has posted information that appears to be more correct (at least in relationship to current scientific information) while user 'tea' is a bit off base? And post it - and even if they did so - why should the reader of the post assume that the moderator is more correct then poster tea - who's post happens to be more in line with the readers own prejudices?

If someone post something I think is misleading and wrong - I spend my own time looking up sources of what I believe is the correct info - then I post the relevant quotes from the sources I found - and then challenge the poster of the incorrect info to quote his own source.

The moderators are not sources of all 'correct' information - they are just volunteers doing the best they can to keep this forum going. They have neither the time nor resources (and probably none of the desire) to settle every dispute between users (not even every dispute involving health related stuff (for example I myself think that vaping anything in ones lungs is an extremely bad idea, the fact that I spend every waking hour do so notwithstanding, do you thing the moderators what to spend hours doing the research needed to disprove my thesis?)

If you want to be sure this forum post only correct information - then look up the 'correct' info up and post with sources - and please do be too surprised in your studies to find that what you were sure was 100% 'correct' is still subject to debate.

My assumption is that mods are not "just" volunteers, but knowledgeable, motivated and trusted volunteers. I also assume that %80 of the discussions are about basic stuff that's already put to rest (e.g. PG is indeed used as antifreeze and that's ok), hence mods can quickly quite new threads about these basics and refer them to an existing body of knowledge.

It's obvious that ECF is a huge forum with a huge user-base. It's also obvious that the ECF community tends to be on the chatty side. That's all fine and dandy, except for one thing: ECF is also the largest knowledge-base on the Internet about E-Cigs, if ECF has bad and/or disorganized info, it will loose the opportunity of being the main reference on E-Cigs and will only be "the E-Cig chatting place".

I believe that there are many people here who have done a great job researching and documenting stuff to share it with us. Those same people we all respect, would hate to see others try to duplicate their work just because they couldn't find it or because some "chatty" person has a different "opinion".

 

[leannebug]

Hence: Post #12

 

[coffee]

Hence: Post #12

Yup, that'll be a step in the right direction.

BTW, looking at the modder's forum for a few weeks and comparing it to the other's, I got the impression that it already seems to have one of the best knowledge "cultures" around here. Oh, another example of great information debate/exchange/building is in the deeply technical(chemistry) threads; those were great too.

I hope I don't come across as dissing ECF, I just like to criticize what I love ... and I love ECF

 

[LittleMerced]

PG is in the newer safer,animal and child safe antifreeze,NOT the same as the sweet flavored poison your pet antifreeze.OK?Lets not nitpick when so many people give their time and effort to help and share.If someone gives the wrong info,20 people will come in and make it right.Its been working for us so far.

Exactly!

And now you have made it obvious to whoever posted that incorrect information what you think of them (chatty) as opposed to what they actually are (a friendly and experienced vaper trying to help out a new user). The OP got the correct information from the other posters. You are not the info police.

 

[leannebug]

Yup, that'll be a step in the right direction.

BTW, looking at the modder's forum for a few weeks and comparing it to the other's, I got the impression that it already seems to have one of the best knowledge "cultures" around here. Oh, another example of great information debate/exchange/building is in the deeply technical(chemistry) threads; those were great too.

Yes, there are weeks and weeks of reading material buried deep within ECF. That is a huge part of the move, and once implemented it should look like your basic "reference" website.. with an attached forum
(those threads are very interesting to follow too!)

I hope I don't come across as dissing ECF, I just like to criticize what I love ... and I love ECF

Yes and no.. but that is OK, and why we don't need any more censorship. Otherwise, you might have been cut off from the start!

Signed,
Chatty Cathy