More Crap with FDA
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You know what kills me the most about all of this???? Nicotine is legal. We can buy analogs, nic gum, nic mints right at the store. Who is to tell us if we vape it, eat it, smoke it or chrew it? What is the difference? Anyone can OD on too much gum or mints too. So I really don't get it. EXCEPT IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! That's what it's about.
Guess what, you can overdose on WATER if you drink too much of it. Water has been around for, well EVER. Yet when they made water bottles and squirt guns, NO ONE TRIED TO BAN THEM!
Nicotine has also been around for a good period of time, in many forms! Yet just because the smart smokers of the world came up with a clever little device that lets us smoke where we want, and we're threating they're bans that "They" enforced, it's a horrible "new drug craze". This is absolute NONSENSE that the FDA is making such a huge deal out of this!
I say we try to call a GLOBAL BOYCOTT ON ANYTHING RELATED TO PHILLIP MORRIS. Because this is all they're fault, they are pulling the strings here! It's a stall tactic. They are trying to find a way to copyright and make money off of e-cigarettes before the FDA says, "ok well, your right, they are ok for people... technically they're not bad at all..".
Nicotine has also been around for a good period of time, in many forms! Yet just because the smart smokers of the world came up with a clever little device that lets us smoke where we want, and we're threating they're bans that "They" enforced, it's a horrible "new drug craze". This is absolute NONSENSE that the FDA is making such a huge deal out of this!
I say we try to call a GLOBAL BOYCOTT ON ANYTHING RELATED TO PHILLIP MORRIS. Because this is all they're fault, they are pulling the strings here! It's a stall tactic. They are trying to find a way to copyright and make money off of e-cigarettes before the FDA says, "ok well, your right, they are ok for people... technically they're not bad at all..".
Well, looks like Rita Chappell will be delivering our fate soon--why does she just not stay home and out of our lives. This stament is very damaging. It begs the question, why don't they go pick on something else like cigarettes when the FDA gets the tobacco within its jurisdiction and leave us alone:
But the FDA has recently hinted that it will soon make a decision:
But the FDA has recently hinted that it will soon make a decision:
"We're concerned about the potential for addiction to and abuse of these products," says FDA spokeswoman Rita Chappelle. "Some people may mistakenly perceive these products to be safer alternatives to conventional tobacco use."
The agency has opened an investigation and has refused to allow e-cigarettes, e-cigars and e-pipes to cross the border because they're considered new drugs that require FDA approval.
Thanks again for nothing Rita!!----------------Sun
The agency has opened an investigation and has refused to allow e-cigarettes, e-cigars and e-pipes to cross the border because they're considered new drugs that require FDA approval.
Thanks again for nothing Rita!!----------------Sun
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You've convinced me. We should put together a group to attempt to ban any water delivery device any more advanced then a wooden pail.
I know that sounds ridiculous, but sometimes such ridicule works. The Pastafarians have had some success with this in the fight for keeping creationism out of schools.
"Some people may mistakenly perceive these products to be safer alternatives to conventional tobacco use"
what planet is she on? minus 4000 carcinogens, I would consider that safer if properly used any day.
what planet is she on? minus 4000 carcinogens, I would consider that safer if properly used any day.
You know what, I'm going to hunt down her email. When I find it, I'm going to spam it on every e-cigarette forum there is. If we have a huge email blast on her, she might reconsider her standpoint on this whole fiasco that her and the FDA are creating.
rita.chappelle@fda.hhs.gov
I don't understand this whole thing. It's like a bad Twilight Zone episode. Why are the people who WANT TO HELP SMOKERS trying to NOT HELP US?!. We've all said this before, about it being a money issue. Well we need to find the money trail and follow it.
I don't understand this whole thing. It's like a bad Twilight Zone episode. Why are the people who WANT TO HELP SMOKERS trying to NOT HELP US?!. We've all said this before, about it being a money issue. Well we need to find the money trail and follow it.
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The above posts are a virtual "how to" assure quick action against e-smoking products. Angry as anyone might be, negative actions are not a route to take.
I'm sure a full e-mail box will cause her to say, "Oh, gosh, I was so wrong about e-cigarettes. Let's just allow them, shall we, with no regulations."
Work with your lawmakers. The FDA could care less about your punitive attempts to sway or "punish" them. Worry about the Waxman bill, if you want something that will really change your life from its passage forward!
I'm sure a full e-mail box will cause her to say, "Oh, gosh, I was so wrong about e-cigarettes. Let's just allow them, shall we, with no regulations."
Work with your lawmakers. The FDA could care less about your punitive attempts to sway or "punish" them. Worry about the Waxman bill, if you want something that will really change your life from its passage forward!
I'm purely talking about us being fed us with Rita Chappelle's irrational remarks. I know this won't make the FDA just say, ok lets stop trying to regulate these...
But they need to know that we are getting really tired of this. If we just sit and wait, they will roll right over us. Just vaping in public and explaining to a few people at a time is the slowest possible route. Our own health claims should be reported and posted and everyone should know the advantages of the e-cig instead of the disadvantages that Rita Chappelle so proudly spews out for everyone to meander over.
But they need to know that we are getting really tired of this. If we just sit and wait, they will roll right over us. Just vaping in public and explaining to a few people at a time is the slowest possible route. Our own health claims should be reported and posted and everyone should know the advantages of the e-cig instead of the disadvantages that Rita Chappelle so proudly spews out for everyone to meander over.
L74U, can you buy the Nictrol Inhaler without a script right now?
The patch was also at one time were required to have a script (RX). Its takes several years for products to become OTC (Over the Counter). I have a strong feeling this is how the E Cig community will be affected. The hardware is not mainly the issue but a new unregulated form of nicotine being introduced to the USA. So its not all about money but Government control and safety.
I love vaping, but how do we really know that E Cigs are safer. Yes, they don't contain some 4000 extra chemicals. However they also contain solder, and other by products. They are so new that coming up with a long term study would take years to actually prove they are safer. I'm with you on the fight but can see why the FDA wants to control the Juice.
What if you were told that you can use your e cig, HOWEVER you will need to get a script from your doctor to get your Juice?
Would you be willing to pay more for your juice and go to a pharmacy to get your juice?
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Great.. well stock up now. Because they're going to make it impossible to get any of this stuff.
Radiokaos is likely right. This is about the FDA doing its job of protecting American citizens from snake oil salesmen.
The FDA says this is a new drug, because it's nicotine and other chemicals mixed in a combination never approved for human use. If that's the case, the maker of the new drug must prove its safety and efficacy before selling it. None did. So the FDA stepped in, started an investigation, issued statements, and began limited enforcement. That is exactly what is expected of that protection agency.
To the FDA, this is not about the money. Rules for drugs and medical devices are in place; meet them and sell your wonder stuff; ignore them and you get a ban on your product.
The FDA says this is a new drug, because it's nicotine and other chemicals mixed in a combination never approved for human use. If that's the case, the maker of the new drug must prove its safety and efficacy before selling it. None did. So the FDA stepped in, started an investigation, issued statements, and began limited enforcement. That is exactly what is expected of that protection agency.
To the FDA, this is not about the money. Rules for drugs and medical devices are in place; meet them and sell your wonder stuff; ignore them and you get a ban on your product.
As long as the hardware is still available, ppl will get nic from other sources. Ive heard rumors of a new flame based PV that has no atomiser or battery. You use your lighter to heat a chamber to vape the liquid. I bet I can get my glass blower friend to come up with something.
Thanks for your input.
This reminds me of the Nicotine Lollipops, that were threatened to be pulled from the US public. For the new members, back in 2002 FDA got wind that a small group of pharmacies in the US were selling online lollipops that contained nic for smokers. Now these pharmacies were selling these pops unscripted (no prescription needed) online.
They were threatened the same was as we are today with E Cig. So what did they do? They just had all of their clients / patients get scripts for the nic lollipops. There are still a handful of pharmacies today that still fill these scripts for the nic lollipops. So it was simple for them, stop selling them online and make sure your customer has a script from their doctor. The FDA was content and met the middle ground with the Pharmacies.
FYI, these NIc Lollipops were compounded and manufactured in these said pharmacies. In a controlled environment with all ingredients disclosed fully to the FDA.
For all we know our nic juice could be made inside an airplane hangar, with rat droppings, and other inert chemicals.
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The FDA has no business worrying about people becoming addicted to anything. Period. Their entire job is to decide if something is "safe", and to ensure the proper warnings are in place if they are not.
And what kind of "abuse" is she talking about? I've not heard anything rooted in logic or reason that shows you can "abuse" your personal vaporizer.
And, TB, don't think that in our massively corrupted governmental system that it isn't about "money". MOST of the things our government does these days is 100% directly tied to money.. lobbying, industry insiders writing laws then moving from government to the industry they regulated so they can make ****loads of money.
wake up, man.
protecting us? from tainted baby formula, drywall, dog food, toys? Letting Big-Pharma provide 'test results' on products that kill people from day one?
Just how out of touch most people are in this country amazes me. ... and terrifies me.
the science on Nicotine is pretty extensive. Same with PG. If they want to test various chemicals and reactions, fine.. but you can't deny that since they are letting AMERICAN manufacturers sell this stuff while blocking it from being imported from China, they clearly are not "protecting us". If that was their intent, they would have put the kabosh on this LONG ago while they studied it.
It's about power and control and, yes, money.
In fact, 99% of everything in your life is centered around money.. you just don't know it.
And what kind of "abuse" is she talking about? I've not heard anything rooted in logic or reason that shows you can "abuse" your personal vaporizer.
And, TB, don't think that in our massively corrupted governmental system that it isn't about "money". MOST of the things our government does these days is 100% directly tied to money.. lobbying, industry insiders writing laws then moving from government to the industry they regulated so they can make ****loads of money.
wake up, man.
protecting us? from tainted baby formula, drywall, dog food, toys? Letting Big-Pharma provide 'test results' on products that kill people from day one?
Just how out of touch most people are in this country amazes me. ... and terrifies me.
the science on Nicotine is pretty extensive. Same with PG. If they want to test various chemicals and reactions, fine.. but you can't deny that since they are letting AMERICAN manufacturers sell this stuff while blocking it from being imported from China, they clearly are not "protecting us". If that was their intent, they would have put the kabosh on this LONG ago while they studied it.
It's about power and control and, yes, money.
In fact, 99% of everything in your life is centered around money.. you just don't know it.
1. Rita Chappelle is an inconsequential public relations civil servant flack catcher whose job is to transmit the position of her employer. She has very little to do with deciding the substantive content of her agency's policy. I personally don't care what lands in her in-box or doesn't, but you should know that nobody in a policy making position will either. Unless it gets extremely abusive & threatening, in which case another federal agency will be made to care, as will the sender when they visit him/her. It's a routine part of her (and her clerical staff's) job to filter out crank calls and messages, of all sorts, of which this will be a minor part.
2. Invent your own imaginary boogeyman if you like, according to whatever internal emotional tides govern your own construct of how the world "really" works hidden over behind yonder tree, but the drivers for this are right in front of you, publicly announcing themselves, and there is nothing hidden about their reasons. They are the leaders of groups which proudly declare themselves on a mission for their own vision of social improvement, which happens to be: a crusade against anything related to, connected with, or resembling smoking or tobacco in any way whatsoever. And it tends to be especially distasteful from their point of view if there is a possibility someone might actually enjoy it. They are not about to suddenly be in the business of acknowledging anything to be maybe okay, let alone good in any way. That does nothing to enhance their "save the kids" fundraising appeals, grant awards, publicity, prestige, or emotional satisfaction of feeling they are "rescuing" the world from unsavory demons and monsters and remaking it to become ever more perfectly "safe" in ways it would not do so without the intervention of their noble public spirited zeal.
In other words, they are a lot like a number of individuals on this forum, only rather more literate, considerably more numerous, and realistically familiar with using the mechanisms of government authority. They also now have negotiated the support of one company which has decided to opt for the security of gradual decline within a quasi-publicly sanctioned monopoly position shutting out it's competitors, rather than function as a private competitive business at risk of being killed entirely by the political tide.
They are now recently joined by appointees in federal policy making positions who are much more strongly predisposed towards belief in the inherent good of government regulation (soon to include what kind of light bulbs you will be permitted to buy for example) and deep suspicion of anything occuring privately in an unregulated, unnapproved, uncontrolled manner, and they have longstanding politically friendly ties to, and a natural affinity for the world view of, the crusading "health" groups. There is some exercise of judgment and discretion involved in what the FDA chooses to take notice of and act upon; formerly it tended to interpret it's mandate somewhat more narrowly and responded to different priorities in opposition to the position of some of these groups, now it is disposed to take a broader more expansive view of its role and is more responsive to those groups' view of its proper priorities.
For the model of what is happening, I suggest looking at the Temperance Movement of the 1910's & 1920's lead by Carrie Nation & others, culminating in the constitutional prohibition of alcohol ("demon rum") into the 1930s. Frankly, even a number of members of this forum sound similar to it at times.
2. Invent your own imaginary boogeyman if you like, according to whatever internal emotional tides govern your own construct of how the world "really" works hidden over behind yonder tree, but the drivers for this are right in front of you, publicly announcing themselves, and there is nothing hidden about their reasons. They are the leaders of groups which proudly declare themselves on a mission for their own vision of social improvement, which happens to be: a crusade against anything related to, connected with, or resembling smoking or tobacco in any way whatsoever. And it tends to be especially distasteful from their point of view if there is a possibility someone might actually enjoy it. They are not about to suddenly be in the business of acknowledging anything to be maybe okay, let alone good in any way. That does nothing to enhance their "save the kids" fundraising appeals, grant awards, publicity, prestige, or emotional satisfaction of feeling they are "rescuing" the world from unsavory demons and monsters and remaking it to become ever more perfectly "safe" in ways it would not do so without the intervention of their noble public spirited zeal.
In other words, they are a lot like a number of individuals on this forum, only rather more literate, considerably more numerous, and realistically familiar with using the mechanisms of government authority. They also now have negotiated the support of one company which has decided to opt for the security of gradual decline within a quasi-publicly sanctioned monopoly position shutting out it's competitors, rather than function as a private competitive business at risk of being killed entirely by the political tide.
They are now recently joined by appointees in federal policy making positions who are much more strongly predisposed towards belief in the inherent good of government regulation (soon to include what kind of light bulbs you will be permitted to buy for example) and deep suspicion of anything occuring privately in an unregulated, unnapproved, uncontrolled manner, and they have longstanding politically friendly ties to, and a natural affinity for the world view of, the crusading "health" groups. There is some exercise of judgment and discretion involved in what the FDA chooses to take notice of and act upon; formerly it tended to interpret it's mandate somewhat more narrowly and responded to different priorities in opposition to the position of some of these groups, now it is disposed to take a broader more expansive view of its role and is more responsive to those groups' view of its proper priorities.
For the model of what is happening, I suggest looking at the Temperance Movement of the 1910's & 1920's lead by Carrie Nation & others, culminating in the constitutional prohibition of alcohol ("demon rum") into the 1930s. Frankly, even a number of members of this forum sound similar to it at times.
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i once saw a video where these college students were going around asking people to ban hydrogendioxcide. people would just sign the petition without asking any questions. one person asked what is it and they said they put it in our resorvoirs. they signed it without asking any more questions. it was when they were walking away they finally told the people hydrogendioxcide (h2o) is just water. just goes to show how many stupid people there are and how easily you can get them to ban something without them knowing the facts
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