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Ozwald

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I'm a woodworker also and if I ever get all the parts together I want to build myself an e-pipe. I'm thinking I should probably buy a cheap pipe and convert it first for practice before building one from scratch.

I'm primarily a turner & 90% of my work is in exotics so I'd just go for it :) Getting electronics I considered good enough would be my biggest concern.

& morning. I must be vaping grumpy juice this morning. :glare: I just had to throw out a brand new Iken that wouldn't wick, lost a couple mL trying to hot swap it out of a full tank & I'm almost out of that juice which is one of my daily vapes... and Quicken says I have to wait 2 more days before I'm allowed to order more. Just switched over to a dripper & it's not playing nice this morning either. Grrr.
 

Amiaji

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I'm primarily a turner & 90% of my work is in exotics so I'd just go for it :) Getting electronics I considered good enough would be my biggest concern.

& morning. I must be vaping grumpy juice this morning. :glare: I just had to throw out a brand new Iken that wouldn't wick, lost a couple mL trying to hot swap it out of a full tank & I'm almost out of that juice which is one of my daily vapes... and Quicken says I have to wait 2 more days before I'm allowed to order more. Just switched over to a dripper & it's not playing nice this morning either. Grrr.
I just ordered some broken twist batteries for 2.99 each. I also dabble in electronics and maybe I can either fix them or disassemble them and use the parts to make myself a pipe or box mod.
 

Seanchai

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Morning Sam, Ozwald, Amiaji, and whoever else might be lurking.

On clones - As a writer, I've got a vested interest in the whole "protection of intellectual property" debate, but also as a writer, I'm way too broke to splash out on the really nice attys/mods *without having tested them*. I think that's one of the biggest factors driving the clone market right now... there is no lending library/spotify/etc equivalent for vape gear. Even with vape meets and "have a vape off this" with friends, there's a big difference between having a vape off something and knowing whether it will work for you in the long term. Sampling liquids is easy and cheap... there's no way to "sample" gear, unless you happen to be lucky enough to live near someone with a large collection who doesn't mind you walking off with some for a few days.

My own personal solution to the moral dilemma *was* to just buy genuine and stick with "cheap but genuine," and on the whole, that is what I plan to continue doing... but there are a few higher priced things around that I'd like to check out, and the only way to do that is to pick up a clone *first* for a price I can afford, and then if the clone works out, save up for the genuine article. It's the best compromise I can find, and while not the ideal solution, it's one I can live with.

Vanilla Butternut update: mixes very well with Cinnamon Roll, Graham Cracker, Butterscotch, Bavarian Cream, and Sticky Bun (one at a time). I think I like it best straight, though.
 

Ozwald

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I just ordered some broken twist batteries for 2.99 each. I also dabble in electronics and maybe I can either fix them or disassemble them and use the parts to make myself a pipe or box mod.

I play around with electronics too, but when it comes to mods I'm just picky. If I could only find a working Provari for cheap (yeah right), but then I wouldn't make it into a pipe, I'd just turn a new body for it. A cocobolo provari... how awesome would that be!?!?!?

Morning to you as well Sean. The clone slope is a slippery one, for sure. Personally I spend way too much time researching before I buy & I always go straight for the real deal. When I picked up the Provari, I knew if I didn't like it, I could resell it on the classy's for a very minimal loss. Same with the KFL+.
 
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Amiaji

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I play around with electronics too, but when it comes to mods I'm just picky. If I could only find a working Provari for cheap (yeah right), but then I wouldn't make it into a pipe, I'd just turn a new body for it. A cocobolo provari... how awesome would that be!?!?!?

Morning to you as well Sean. The clone slope is a slippery one, for sure. Personally I spend way too much time researching before I buy & I always go straight for the real deal. When I picked up the Provari, I knew if I didn't like it, I could resell it on the classy's for a very minimal loss. Same with the KFL+.

A cocobolo Provari would be sweet. Or sapele, or mahogany, or walnut, or.........


Good morning Sean.
 

Ozwald

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A cocobolo Provari would be sweet. Or sapele, or mahogany, or walnut, or.........


Good morning Sean.

Cocobolo's my favorite, especially since I'm one of the few not allergic to the dust when turning it :D It's beautiful, but it can be real mean.

If I went with anything else I'd do something segmented or do a crazy inlay, like colorful stone or something.
 

Seanchai

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I play around with electronics too, but when it comes to mods I'm just picky. If I could only find a working Provari for cheap (yeah right), but then I wouldn't make it into a pipe, I'd just turn a new body for it. A cocobolo provari... how awesome would that be!?!?!?

That would definitely be awesome. :D

Morning to you as well Sean. The clone slope is a slippery one, for sure. Personally I spend way too much time researching before I buy & I always go straight for the real deal. When I picked up the Provari, I knew if I didn't like it, I could resell it on the classy's for a very minimal loss. Same with the KFL+.

I would do things that way, but I can't afford to outlay that kind of money on a maybe and then potentially wait for it to sell on the classies... for me it makes more economical sense to try a clone first. The added bonus there is if I do like it and therefore end up buying genuine, I'll have the knock-off around to let friends borrow so that they can test it - and then they'll go out and buy their own genuine one too. For someone who hasn't been vaping long, I've amassed a ridiculous number of converts (16 at last count, most of whom are now vaping either exclusively or primarily), and I've become the unofficial source of all knowledge (which scares the crap out of me!) and spare liquids/vape gear (which I don't have much of, but I try to be generous with what I do have, without screwing myself over)... so, much like I'm happy to pass on 5-10ml of liquid but I include a MBV card with the expectation they'll get their own, I'm happy to loan vape gear, with the expectation that they do right by the original manufacturer.
 

Ozwald

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I would do things that way, but I can't afford to outlay that kind of money on a maybe and then potentially wait for it to sell on the classies... for me it makes more economical sense to try a clone first. The added bonus there is if I do like it and therefore end up buying genuine, I'll have the knock-off around to let friends borrow so that they can test it - and then they'll go out and buy their own genuine one too. For someone who hasn't been vaping long, I've amassed a ridiculous number of converts (16 at last count, most of whom are now vaping either exclusively or primarily), and I've become the unofficial source of all knowledge (which scares the crap out of me!) and spare liquids/vape gear (which I don't have much of, but I try to be generous with what I do have, without screwing myself over)... so, much like I'm happy to pass on 5-10ml of liquid but I include a MBV card with the expectation they'll get their own, I'm happy to loan vape gear, with the expectation that they do right by the original manufacturer.

I'm on a strict budget as well, thus the research. I don't buy on maybe's - I make sure that it's almost certainly going to work for me first. When I was researching RBA's I would guess I spent a collected 40 hours of research before I bought anything at all. Also, all my vaping friends are from ECF, so there's no one local to loan/trade/swap gear with for testing stuff out. I live in a pretty rural area as it is - I work at home & only go into town once or twice a month for supplies. I do have one friend who swings by from time to time who's a light smoker. I'm going to give him the 808 setup that I had before I bought the Provari to see if he likes it when he gets back home next week. He travels for work quite a bit (he was in Japan for a month, came back to Montana for a week & left for Belgium for another month) so even if he just gets some use out of it with all the flying, it'd be cool. He doesn't smoke like I did, so I think it'll work for him - battery life was my biggest complaint.
 

Ozwald

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I only have pen sized pieces of cocobolo, I would have to order some bigger blanks.

The smallest turning stock I buy is 1.5" square - I mill my pen blanks out of that typically. I just bought a Jet 14" DX Pro bandsaw (12" resaw, booyah!) which makes quick work of it. Buying pen blanks is just way too expensive for me. I'll also run those through the jointer & glue them up for bigger stuff when I don't have larger blanks available... depending on the wood. Jatoba is another favorite to work with & usually looks pretty good in a glue up, but I'd never dream of doing that with cocobolo unless it wasn't a very colorful/figured piece.
 

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I'm going to try that Sticky Bun + Orange Dream Bar thing one of these days. Re: DT vs. Matt Smith... Matt grew on me eventually (took a couple years). I think they cast him a bit too young, and Moffat's convoluted scripts didn't help... so it took him a while to get a handle on how to act the material he was being given. By the end, he was good - not great. David Tennant is just in a class all his own as an actor... If you haven't seen Broadchurch yet, check it out. The role couldn't be more different that The Doctor, and yet, he does it just as well. He did *so* well in Broadchurch that Fox decided to recast him in the role for the upcoming US version. (I hope they let him keep his native accent. He does a *very* good non-descript US accent, but American Tennant would just feel odd to me.)

I'm interested to see how Capaldi handles the way Moffat writes. He's got experience Matt didn't have coming into the role, so it could be really good... but Moffat's scripts are always so "throw everything at the wall" that it might be a disaster that has nothing to do with Capaldi. I was happy when Moffat got the showrunning role, but I regretted it within three episodes... Moffat is the kind of writer who tells really good "one shot" stories. If you give him 40-90 minutes of TV time and tell him that it absolutely must have a beginning, a middle, and an end in that time, he does very well. (The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, Blink, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and more recently, The Name of The Doctor, which was a brilliant return to form.) When he has to write for a season, though, he insists on viewing it as ten hours of time to tell one story.... and then he panics and throws in everything he can think of. As a result, the overall story ends up confusing (and the payoff is never worth all the random twists and turns), and the individual episodes rarely have any actual plot... they're all in the service of his master plan. It says a lot that The Lodger, the Van Gogh ep and The Beast Below - three of the more watchable Moffat era episodes with the least amount of "Look At My Larger Brilliant Plot That I Can't Tell You About But Look, It's Over Here, Do You See My Brilliant Secret Larger Plot That I'm Not Going To Explain Till Next Year, Do You See It, Do You, Do You?!"... those three episodes were all originally written for Tennant. And I think it shows, because they each contain self-contained, well thought out plots. In The Beast Below, you can even see the seams where Moffatt lopped off the original ending and wrote his own to fit the New Doctor... poor Matt Smith has to do an emotional 180 that makes little sense and makes The Doctor look like the last person the audience would want to travel with. We've had mercurial Doctors before, but it's the out of the blue nature and breakneck *speed* at which Matt has to make that turn in that particular script that makes it terrifying... and because it's Matt's second episode, it was an episode that turned me off Matt-as-the-Doctor for a long time.

So we'll see how Capaldi handles it. He can only work with what he's given, sadly, and Moffat seems obsessed with sacrificing individual episodes in the service of his Big Master Plots that everyone has to wait a year or three to find out about.

To be clear, I *love* TV with an overarching plot... The West Wing had one long continuous plot for seven seasons. But it was not written such that you had to watch for 7 seasons and then the final episode of the series was a giant info-dump of what all these "hints" meant... and each individual episode of TWW did have a cogent plot of its own.

I'm hoping Moffat burns out soon and decides to go do more Sherlock with Bandylegs Cummerbund, or whatever else strikes his fancy that I couldn't possibly care less about.

Yeah he's starting to grow on me a little bit (Smith is). It's not nearly as painful to watch him by the end of Season 5. The formula for the overarching plot was thought up by Joss Whedon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer). Basically every third episode is a part of a larger season long plot and the other two are monsters of the week. It works fairly well, so much so that a lot of shows have adapted it. For season 5 of Dr. Who it feels like the writers can't decide if they want to go with a Walking Dead format or stick with the Buffy The Vampire Slayer formula. It does seem a bit all-over the place. Van Gogh episode was really good though (just saw it last night).

I still miss Tennant's fast talking-high energy acting style, but it seems like they are writing the scripts around Smith better as time goes on. The last episode I watched where I was falling asleep had him popping in and out like crazy, helped make things feel more Tennant-like. lol. I believe it was the one where Rory was a Centurion.
 

Criticalmass

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I vape a lot of sweet/dark juices, so I have to dryburn my coils about once a day (two days max, but that second day is a pretty lousy vape by about halfway through). My concern with using cotton as the through-wick is trying to rewick the coil with fresh cotton after the dryburn... I don't think I'd have enough room to thread it through without first disassembling the coil head so that I can slide the coil up out of the head enough to get the cotton threaded through.

I'll definitely experiment with it a little before I get a genny, but I'm not sure if I'm up for all that palaver every time I dry burn.

You have enough room. I believe the wire they use for the stock heads (at least the Kanger heads) is 34 gauge. It is really thin and can't take me trying to re-thread cotton through the loose coils. With 30 gauge and a tighter coil the threading is a lot easier once you have the wire "tempered" into shape, the hardest part is judging the right amount of cotton to use the first time around and I have picked that up after a few re-wicks. I have a tendency to use too much cotton so I end up pulling a bit out as I am threading it through so it slides in and out fairly easy with no bunching.

As to the Clone issue. Honestly, I can't tell what is and isn't a clone with some of this stuff anymore. For Instance: The Kayfun. People say they won't buy a clone, but then they bought a Russian 91% which is basically a clone of the Kayfun. Then we have the Fogger version, the EHpro version, the Tobeco version. Then you look at the price of the "originals" $100.00 plus. Umm, steel and machining is not THAT expensive, but designing a good tank IMO takes more skill than designing a mod. More parts, smaller parts, more parts that have to function. Some of the mod prices are ridiculous for what amounts to a fancy flashlight tube. There are obviously a few exceptions to this (as there always are) but on the whole I have yet to see most of these mods be truly unique. They are all pretty much clones of each other.

At one time PC's were all thought of as clones (IBM Compatibles), but I did not see anyone rushing out to spend $4,000.00 on the IBM version. Fact is, the "cloners" made the PCs better than IBM did, for less money. So IBM doesn't do hardware anymore, they do research and software now. The whole idea behind buying original is that you are partially paying for a name or a brand, but there is only one brand that really stands out in the e-cig world... Provari, and it can't be cloned because it's entire claim to fame is a quality standard above and beyond what a Chinese cloner can do.

If nothing was ever cloned we'd all be driving the same brand of cars with the same brand of engine. Stephen King would never have been able to write about half of his books due to copyright issues (as he himself admits). The first Haunted House story would be the ONLY Haunted House story. How dull that would be... If someone makes a product good enough, the clones won't matter. Quality and aesthetics differentiate the good from the bad.

Tolkien's fantasy would have been the only one. I don't know about the rest of you, but Terry Brooks, Terry Goodkind, and several other fantasy writers have only added spice with their versions of the fantasy realm that Tolkien invented.

Unfortunately, using cheap Chinese labor comes with a hidden price and the only way to get around that hidden price is to design a product that they can't hope to successfully clone, and pay your designers enough that they don't turn around and sell the designs to the Chinese...
 
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Seanchai

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Yeah he's starting to grow on me a little bit (Smith is). It's not nearly as painful to watch him by the end of Season 5. The formula for the overarching plot was thought up by Joss Whedon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer). Basically every third episode is a part of a larger season long plot and the other two are monsters of the week. It works fairly well, so much so that a lot of shows have adapted it. For season 5 of Dr. Who it feels like the writers can't decide if they want to go with a Walking Dead format or stick with the Buffy The Vampire Slayer formula. It does seem a bit all-over the place. Van Gogh episode was really good though (just saw it last night).

I still miss Tennant's fast talking-high energy acting style, but it seems like they are writing the scripts around Smith better as time goes on. The last episode I watched where I was falling asleep had him popping in and out like crazy, helped make things feel more Tennant-like. lol. I believe it was the one where Rory was a Centurion.

Yeah, the Big Bang episodes were pretty good.

Formula continues to be all over the place, lol... I don't think he's using Joss' formula or anyone else's, because the only eps that actually *deal* with the Big Plot are the finales... and that's my problem with it. If DW had a season like US shows - 22 eps, one every week - then it might work okay (although the whole "episodes full of hints but the actual big plot doesn't get dealt with, but nor does any individual ep have plot, because it's all just a vehicle for hinting around and misdirection" thing would still be annoying), but 13 eps spread out over 12-15 months with a 3-5 month break in the *middle* of the season just means I'm ready to put my hands around Moffat's *neck* by the time he does his "big reveal".

He annoyed me all over again with Matt's regen ep because he dredged up every idea he's ever had and reran them *again* (hardly for the first time), so it felt like the "isn't Moffat clever" episode instead of Matt's last hurrah. I know RTD did that too, but RTD was *also* leaving, for starters, so he needed to tie everything up and leave Moffat with a clean slate... and secondly, The End of Time *did* have a plot of its own, whereas Matt's last ep suffered from the usual problem of "oh my god, now I have an entire season's worth of hinting to explain, ack, not enough time, oh god, and a plot, where's a plot, that'll do, not much time for plot anyway so no one will notice." It's a real shame, because he could easily have just built on the previous ep and the anniversary ep and had something really good... but that wouldn't have left room to cram in every idea that's ever passed through his brain, and god forbid he not have time for his usual vanity exercise.

Oddly enough, Matt's best overall season was probably the one where Moffat decided that every episode had to be "An American Hollywood Blockbuster!!" (a direct quote from his now defunct Twitter feed)... the plots didn't always work, and the "everything is an action movie!!" concept got tedious, but at least almost every episode *had* a plot that made some kind of logical sense.

I quite like overarching plots, done well. Moffat's just one of those writers who can't do them well because he can't self-edit... entire seasons to work with gives him far too much rope, which he promptly uses to hang himself.

I'm hoping and praying that having something fresh to put Capaldi into (per the end of the anniversary ep) puts an end to all of this "I have a plot, but it's a secret, you see my secret plot that's a secret? Here's a clue that no one is going to explain or make reference to for the next 12 months, but I'm going to wave it in your face from now till then..." stuff. But it's Moffat, so I'm sure he'll find a way to irritate me.

Russell T Davies was far from perfect, but his stuff is always enjoyable to watch, from the original QaF to Who to his newer projects.
 

diggyb

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I'm toward the end of Series 6...it feels like they've been trying way too hard. I think I liked 5 better, and I haven't heard much good about 7. Eccleston is still my favorite. ;)

I like Smith, but I'm looking forward to Capaldi and (hopefully) losing the forced sexual tensions between the last few Doctors/companions.
 
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u4ia

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Good morning all :)

@Ozwald and @Amiaji, you should look into a DNA20 board for your wooden pipe mods, that would be amazing and probably very resalable :)

As to the discussion about the Kayfun and Russian's, I may be incorrect as I admittedly have not done a lot of research, but I think I read somewhere that the Russian creator was actually a co-creator of the original Kayfun?
 

Seanchai

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I'm toward the end of Series 6...it feels like they've been trying way too hard. I think I liked 5 better, and I haven't heard much good about 7. Eccleston is still my favorite. ;)

I like Smith, but I'm looking forward to Capaldi and (hopefully) losing the forced sexual tensions between the last few Doctors/companions.

I liked Eccleston too. Too bad Moffat messed around inviting him to the anniversary shindig - the original plan was for him to be in that ep instead of John Hurt, but Moffat didn't ask him with much time to spare and then expected him to jump to. Since Chris wasn't thrilled with his Who experience in the first place (liked the role, didn't care for all the publicity around it - he's a private guy), he said no. It sounded like he would have been willing to consider it if he'd been given some time *to* consider, but since it was sprung on him already written with the *expectation* that he'd do it, he got irritated. Shame.

I was really, really hoping for Ben Daniels to get the role of 12, just because he's an underrated actor with the same Royal Shakespeare Co heritage as DT (so serious acting chops) and a very different personality to any Doctor we've ever had... but Capaldi was my second choice. I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed for Ben to be 13. :D

Add Maple Pecan to the list of juices that mix well with Vanilla Butternut.
 
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