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My battle so far with customs / Health Canada

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elephantsailor

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Oct 15, 2012
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I'm interested in seeing where this is going, but have a sneaky feeling you're going to waste a whole bunch of your time and ultimately not get the juice.

yeah I agree..unfortunately they have your stuff and will just keep quoting bs regulations etc no matter how wrong they are..short of hiring a lawyer I think it's a lost cause..

We can't just roll over and die because it's us against big government. If it gets to the point where one of us is clearly right and still is being treated unfairly, people need to know about these things. It's all the little battles like these that need to be resolved in our favor AND in accordance with the existing laws, or they are going to be able take this away from us in the end. Awareness and support among those who aren't vapers is key.

(Whoops, thought there were only two pages in this thread for some reason. Hope I didn't jump the conversation too bad.)
 

Hello World

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Dec 20, 2012
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One may be able win a single-point battle against HC, but the war can only be settled in a courtroom.

Any Gov't Department is based on laws and operated by regulations. Every single complaint has it's own file, it's own agent, it's own adjudication. This system prevents any reform by that very nature of function and operation of itself.

Public hearings, your local, provincial and federal representative and the courts are the avenues of change and reform.

Revenue Canada, same s**t, different bucket ... is simply an unthinking robotic automaton whose wheels were set in motion illegally 95 years ago, and no one, absolutely no one, irrespective of any action taking against CCRA, has ever made one inch of inroad. Where changes did occur was due to losses RevCan experienced in the courts and MPs who started motions to limit it's powers after extensive periods of public abuse by the department had taken place.

The Tax Dept. can simply assess you, freeze your accounts and assets based on this fabricated debt and run you through the Tax Courts for the next 7 seven years, bankrupting you 3 times over by the time all is said and done. Any extortion and blackmail by mobsters like Al Capone is only amateur hour at it's very finest in comparison. These agencies, like HC, are not based on public service and protections, but control by force. The unthinking master-at-arms of spendthrift lawmakers.

Hence I can't get in on any protest jihad bandwagon on actions which are frivolous, immaterial, pointless and cannot possibly have any finite result.
 
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Projectguy

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What we are trying to do / what we have to do is effect change. I've said this in a number of other threads over the time I've been here. Our most effective opportunity for change has to come from INSIDE government. Yes we are intelligent, resourceful, we are important to the government and the economy as tax payers and consumers but more importantly we are voters.

I would suggest that we have to find an MP who is a smoker. I was all set to go to Ottawa and try to meet with Bev Oda but she blew her brains out politically and I haven't been able to find / identify a smoker in the bunch.

Anyone know of an MP who is a smoker?

Failing which a Chief of Staff or media relations person would be next best.
 

Not Iris

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My MP is a heavy smoker, but I am afraid that he carries very little clout in his little seat of Chatham-Kent. But I was thinking, that the next time he is home that I will drop him off an ego kit and some joose to see if he is receptive to the idea.

I just read on his FB page that he is home this weekend, but I don't have a kit at the moment.
 
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Not Iris

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And here he is, sitting beside Harper and wishing that he could take a break to go outside for a smoke.

vankestern.jpg
 

Projectguy

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Use would be wonderful but what we need as a first step is someone who:
1. Shares our addiction
2. Can put a face to vaping
3. A connection in government
4. Someone who we might be able to educate


Would he even use it?, being a small fish, in a tank of sharks. Nice idea, need to get him alone, talk fast, and load that ego.
 

Bosman

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Mar 3, 2011
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Hi all!
Again, lots of comments overnight. This is good. All of them I appreciated. I very much like Krusin_'s re-word (thank you!) and I would call it the final revision with some additional rewording. Any final thoughts?
PS: I am keeping the authorisation spelled with an s :)
------

February 16, 2013
Food and Drugs Act Liaison Office
200 Eglantine Driveway
Address Locator 1917C
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0K9

Dear Sir or Madam:
As of January 30, 2013 my parcel is being held by Canada Border Services Agency Edmonton on recommendation of Health Canada. This letter is to appeal this decision, have the parcel released and subsequently delivered to its destination address. It is being held without support from any Canadian Law or Regulation.

Information pertaining to the parcel:
DHL Waybil: 947706XXXX
CBSA reference: K24 XXXXX
Health Canada reference: XXXXXXXXX

Health Canada has since sent me a letter (see attached HC_Letter.pdf) with the following information as the cause for refusal:
REASON
Food and Drug Regulations -- C.01.045(1)
Subject to subsection (2), no person other than: a practitioner, a drug manufacturer, a wholesale druggist, a registered pharmacist or a resident of a foreign country while a visitor in Canada, shall import a Schedule F Drug.

The reason is fundamentally flawed and incorrect as per the following facts:
• E-cigarettes are not a health product. They are recreational consumer goods and as such do not fall under the Food and Drugs Act. Nicotine Replacement Therapy products (pharmaceutical nicotine products used for the purpose of quitting smoking) make therapeutic claims and therefore are covered under the Act. E-cigarettes make no such claims.
• E-liquid containing nicotine (five 50ml 0.6% nicotine bottles) is explicitly exempt from the Food and Drug Regulations, as per Schedule F:

Nicotine and its salts, for human use, except
(d) in a form to be administered orally by means of an inhalation device delivering 4 mg or less of nicotine per dosage unit

(see attached report NJOY.pdf clearly stating that 1.8% nicotine e-liquid delivers less than 4 mg of nicotine per dose, in the case of 0.6% nicotine liquid this number is obviously lower.)

• As a consumer product e-liquid does not require market authorisation.
• E-liquid containing nicotine is not a prescription drug

It is easy to mistake classification of this product and impose a hold on a package containing such considering Health Canada’s Advisory (number 2009-53) dated March 27, 2009 which may be mistakenly understood as a ban on such consumer products. I cannot stress enough that this is neither a health product nor a Nicotine Replacement Therapy product. (In which case Schedule F of the Food and Drug Act would apply.)

It is my belief that with your help and knowledge, this small error will be solved and the package irrevocably released and passed over to DHL Express for delivery at their earliest convenience. I appreciate your time and effort.

Furthermore, please be advised there are numerous vendors openly selling electronic cigarette products and supplies throughout Canada, with or without nicotine. One such business is the second fastest growing company in the province of Alberta as per a recent interview on CBC Current that aired January 29, 2013. Some vendors do, very occasionally, receive cease and desist letters from Health Canada, but none have been presented with criminal charges as these vendors do not currently break Canadian Law.

Sincerely Yours,
Mr. Bosman
 
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RjG

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Many American vendors shipping to Canada either recommend, or automatically ship hardware separate from liquids for exactly that reason -- it's too prone getting CC's attention. It's been my experience this practice is not followed by all vendors esp. those from other countries such as China.


I'd love to hear of even 1 case where HC returned any e-liquids.

HC returned one of my shipments, around 30 x 30ml bottles to Health Cabin
It took about 5 months to round trip to reshipped - there's posts of it here somewhere


In any case, I've had a couple orders seized. I got one released, but that a couple months before the big stink H.C. happened over import. It was difficult to say the least. There were additional complications, like the $400ish tobacco tax that was imposed on it that also had to be appealed.

The others, nope. The best I could do with H.C. was force it into arbitration after the appeal was denied.
I asked who the arbitrator would be - they said it was them, another H.C. official would be the arbitrator. OMG lol. Wasn't worth my time to pursue that one anymore at that point.

Good luck with your case though, all it takes is one to set a precedent

RjG's hints for happy vaping - buy NIC by the litre from the U.S.A and mix your own... ya it's $100 shipped for the PG+Nic but it's only once a year you have to do it. Nice pure vegetable VG can be had from the health food store for cheap. Flavors aren't expensive or illegal to import.

Then you're just importing hardware, which is rarely ever seized as long as no NIC is in the package. Or just order HW from Canvape... not much more $$, much less hassle, 10 times faster
 

Hello World

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Dec 20, 2012
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HC returned one of my shipments, around 30 x 30ml bottles to Health Cabin
It took about 5 months to round trip to reshipped - there's posts of it here somewhere
Sorry to hear you had a bust.

I have never had anything not go through, but also don't order large bottles. Shipping time on average is 10 days. My last US nic-base order came though as S. F. Zhinshung massage oil. Instruct foreign shippers to conceal the package and they will. Also, everything I ever ordered from Asia came through unmolested, and I've had at least 20 shipments and my freezer now stacked to the hilt.

There were additional complications, like the $400ish tobacco tax that was imposed on it that also had to be appealed.
Yup. As an aside, lots of Indonesian tobacco making it's way here, and they rarely nab that either.

The others, nope. The best I could do with H.C. was force it into arbitration after the appeal was denied. I asked who the arbitrator would be - they said it was them, another H.C. official would be the arbitrator. OMG lol. Wasn't worth my time to pursue that one anymore at that point.
Trying to make it appear fair ... lol

Then you're just importing hardware, which is rarely ever seized as long as no NIC is in the package.
Cannot be emphasized enough.
 

K-man

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Feb 9, 2012
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Ottawa, Canada
You may be right but I have lots of time for this. I have all the documentation to support my claim. If the Chinese stuff is being seized for some other reason then you're right, probably not going to get very far. However, I am going with 100% US grade FDA stamped:admin: e liquid....liquid gold....Texas tea

I will not be bullied or take any bull :censored:from them. Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on being an ... about it, I am simply not going to give in to spin.

View attachment 177912

I haven't been in the Canada forum in a while and am I glad I checked in! I am loving you and your attitude!
 
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