My Boba's clone

[NamVet68]

...
I remember noticing just the same thing! Unfortunately I gave up extracting because the constant gunking of my coils was irking me

I had the same problem until I started using syringe filters after the cotton-ball filtration (forgot to mention that step)...they get the particulate matter out & help with coil-gunking a lot.

Amazon has them (I use the .2 um size, but that's probably over-kill, the .45 would work fine also) :
Amazon.com: syringe filters

Have fun....


BTW... speaking of particulate matter, I've ordered Bobas from AV many times over the years, and there were a couple of batches that had a LOT of small pieces of junk floating around in the juice, which is another indication that there are tobacco extracts in it...

 

[VIPOD]

A lot of talk on "extraction". But did Ben do that at the beginning, or even today? Did Ben even use the same flavoring when BB was created?

I do know that Ben was a big supporter of "DIYFlavorShack" back in the day (circa Fall 2009), and they do carry "vg" only flavors.

But the idea that perhaps Ben changed his flavours in BB has some merit based on this post:

"I know many of you are scratching your heads saying, "But you're in America all your liquids are USA made" and you would be mostly correct. We do make our liquids here in the states. Under the terms of full disclosure however, we have made it clear that some of our base e-liquids come from labs outside of our borders.

This is a thing of the past. We are proud to announce that we are now using USA made e-liquid!

Note: This will not effect our flavors. We have carefully tested and retested all of our flavors while trying to find a supplier. Our base e-liquids are flavorless and will not change our e-liquids." - Ben

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...juice-now-usa-made-e-liquids.html#post3061991

Therefore, the Dekang sentiment that I feel (some others), along with the PBursardo review might have some merit. But does it hold today?

For those that tried BB prior to this post, can you recall a change in flavor?

 

[buffaloguy]

Vipod I read that is him specifically referring to only his nic or vg base, not flavorings. Had he changed flavoring lines, even just one flavor, there would have been a difference in his recipe.

Nic base being neutral (for the most part it is supposed to be) doesnt change flavor much at all. Ive used different nics, and many plain vg's. My final juice results are the same... unless I have some skunky nic that has oxidized. Happend to me once when I first started diy. Any vendor that would make juice in nic that didnt look or smell okay shouldnt be in business... lol.

Namvet, I noticed the same results when I tried some tobacco extractions. But the vg versions were far weaker and had to sit far longer. Consistant heat helped kick start it (crockpot on low for 24 hours).

While Ben may use an extract of some sort, I just dont see him doing it himself based on the lead time and his need to wait on supplies at times. My sneaking suspicion is that he doesnt. If I was him, having a very popular eliquid, Id likely say some things to keep people guessing that werent necessarialy correct.

I wont write off on the idea of him using an extracted tobacco but everything in his juice flavor wise I have tasted before so its definitely recreatable.

Does anyone know what extracts were available from diyflavorshack in VG in 2009? I can barely make heads or tails of that web site.

 

[Porksmuggler]

Does anyone know what extracts were available from diyflavorshack in VG in 2009? I can barely make heads or tails of that web site.

Hop in the wayback machine, and take a look. You'll find available flavors as a link, and starting in 2010, Dawn started mentioning the makers of the flavors, Loranns and Fairies Finest. I don't remember when she added the non-PG section.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://diyflavorshack.com

Check post #283 in this thread for a vid of Ben talking about the beginning.

 

[SloHand]

Net's would have nic.... but they would be so weak flavoring wise in vg even if they were extracted into water first then added to vg. Im no expert on NET's. I know some, but maybe Im missing something.

Not if your patient the flavors do come out. As for AVE 'waiting' on supplies ....... and for those that think VG extracts are weak, this is why there is 40% flavoring in Boba's. I don't know of any other recipe in my repertoire that I could make at 40% flavoring except for the ones I make now with VG extracts.

I say it again.

 

[Startle]

Great post tigdag. Its a good roundup and thoughts. Also keep in mind that Ben had said 5 basic ingredients, not 5 flavors. Three of which we know from his statements to be tobaccos. The other two ingredients could be flavors... OR additives like EM, water, menthol... or whatever else he wants to sneak in there.

I've been following this thread with great interest and don't recall any reference to the small particles that are found floating in the subject juice - my apologies if this has been covered already.

So my question is are these particles commonly found in certain tobacco extracts or are they possibly from the same source that occur in some of my DIY juices which is organic apple cider vinegar?

I'm not big into tobacco DIY so I cant offer any insight regarding the actual makeup of the base liquid but I do believe that it is comprised of a mixture of tobacco flavorings and that they account for the majority of the flavors experienced.

The non tobacco flavor used in my opinion is cinnamon roll. I am very familiar with this flavor as I use it extensively in many of my own juices and I get that from Bobas - especially at low wattage.

I have always speculated that there was some vinegar in the mix which is not uncommon especially with heavy tobacco bases. I find it also has a thinning and smoothing effect when used in a high vg base juice. Of course I can be way off base here...

Well that's my 2 cents for now and look forward to reading more intriguing posts here.

Keep up the good work!

 

[buffaloguy]

I absolutely agree its doable. However is Ave doing it? No. While it definitely fits what we may/may not know about bobas the big caveat here is being patient and waiting. A business whos bulk of juice sales come from one or two juices cant wait around or house the production. Ben has said repeatedly he is waiting on deliveries and shipping when he runs out of bobas and gorilla juice.

If he is using a NET, aside from diyflavorshack who else had them in 2009? Especially in large production in VG? My bet is... no one. I agree it can be done Slohand. Ive done it. So can anyone if they feel adventurous. I just dont think a commercial business could sustainably go that route.

As far as 40% flavoring I still dont buy his statement on that. Maybe to him flavoring includes everything except vg nic base? So added VG, flavorings, dw, em, menthol or anything else is in that 40%.

I still think he is making a premix of additives (in vg) and using that at 40% in vg nic base. Keep in mind if he includes DW as an ingredient that could be as much as 20% of that 40%. And if his actual additives are all VG, that is very likely.

Not if your patient the flavors do come out. As for AVE 'waiting' on supplies ....... and for those that think VG extracts are weak, this is why there is 40% flavoring in Boba's. I don't know of any other recipe in my repertoire that I could make at 40% flavoring except for the ones I make now with VG extracts.

I say it again.

 

[buffaloguy]

Yep, a few have mentioned it. It can certainly come from a NET. However you'll also find this happens with seedmans concentrates, esp commercial, and also tobacco absolute. Ive also seen settling particulates with gingerbread flavoring from TPA and some others.

I've been following this thread with great interest and don't recall any reference to the small particles that are found floating in the subject juice - my apologies if this has been covered already.

So my question is are these particles commonly found in certain tobacco extracts or are they possibly from the same source that occur in some of my DIY juices which is organic apple cider vinegar?

I'm not big into tobacco DIY so I cant offer any insight regarding the actual makeup of the base liquid but I do believe that it is comprised of a mixture of tobacco flavorings and that they account for the majority of the flavors experienced.

The non tobacco flavor used in my opinion is cinnamon roll. I am very familiar with this flavor as I use it extensively in many of my own juices and I get that from Bobas - especially at low wattage.

I have always speculated that there was some vinegar in the mix which is not uncommon especially with heavy tobacco bases. I find it also has a thinning and smoothing effect when used in a high vg base juice. Of course I can be way off base here...

Well that's my 2 cents for now and look forward to reading more intriguing posts here.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Levitas]

Everyone should realize that any direction we have thus far, aside of our 1500 opinions on what the juice tastes like, are clues left by Ben. Whether or not anyone believes that Ben was speaking the truth, that's what we have, speculation.

Utilizing those clues as evidence to support your opinion is fine, but nothing can be said in a factual manner. The only truth is that only Alien Visions knows what goes into their juices, as of now.

If we're using said clues to unlock the mystery, then it stands to reason that we should follow them all... not just pick one or two, and ignore the rest, no?

That being said: if Ben cannot, in fact, make his tobacco blends due to an ingredient containing nicotine, what, other than an extract, could that ingredient possibly be?

 

[Startle]

Yep, a few have mentioned it. It can certainly come from a NET. However you'll also find this happens with seedmans concentrates, esp commercial, and also tobacco absolute. Ive also seen settling particulates with gingerbread flavoring from TPA and some others.

Thank you for the clarification!

I also concur with your theory that the flavors being used are commercially available.

I have stated that I do not have much experience working with tobacco flavors but my take on the mix would be very similar to yours though yours I'm sure are much better substantiated.

My speculation is that the base is constructed much like a musical score:

Rich cigar tobacco (low end)
Honey/Vanilla tobacco (high end)
Tobacco Absolute (mid range that blends everything together harmoniously)

And I still think cinnamon roll which has notes across the whole spectrum.

Perhaps in the coming weeks I'll delve into doing some experimenting with tobacco bases. This thread has become very inspirational!

Thanks for all your insight!

 

[Startle]

Everyone should realize that any direction we have thus far, aside of our 1500 opinions on what the juice tastes like, are clues left by Ben. Whether or not anyone believes that Ben was speaking the truth, that's what we have, speculation.

Utilizing those clues as evidence to support your opinion is fine, but nothing can be said in a factual manner. The only truth is that only Alien Visions knows what goes into their juices, as of now.

If we're using said clues to unlock the mystery, then it stands to reason that we should follow them all... not just pick one or two, and ignore the rest, no?

That being said: if Ben cannot, in fact, make his tobacco blends due to an ingredient containing nicotine, what, other than an extract, could that ingredient possibly be?

Very good points.

I take the zero nic reference to allude to the assumption that the extracts will contain some residual nicotine left from the process even if the quantities are very small and barely measurable. Therefore you can't positively guarantee absolute zero nicotine when using them.

Of course this may not be the case but I have not found any flavorings that list nicotine as an ingredient in them - yet...

 

[Levitas]

I take the zero nic reference to allude to the assumption that the extracts will contain some residual nicotine left from the process even if the quantities are very small and barely measurable. Therefore you can't positively guarantee absolute zero nicotine when using them.

Correct, my friend.

 

[buffaloguy]

Aye! Thats absolutely right!

I too would like to know if anything else besides a NET would contain nicotine, even trace amounts? Do tobacco flavorings themselves have any? I never ever even considered it before this thread.

And porksmuggler thanks for the waybackmachine idea. I forgot all about that site. My browse of diy flavorshack from what was available back then was very enlightening. I actually think I know how diyflavorshack made those vg tobaccos. Not from extractions but from using the flavor molecules themselves. I never thought of that idea until now. Off to see what TPA has in stock on the tobacco molecule side of things. Just a hunch but a decent one worth exploring.

Everyone should realize that any direction we have thus far, aside of our 1500 opinions on what the juice tastes like, are clues left by Ben. Whether or not anyone believes that Ben was speaking the truth, that's what we have, speculation.

Utilizing those clues as evidence to support your opinion is fine, but nothing can be said in a factual manner. The only truth is that only Alien Visions knows what goes into their juices, as of now.

If we're using said clues to unlock the mystery, then it stands to reason that we should follow them all... not just pick one or two, and ignore the rest, no?

That being said: if Ben cannot, in fact, make his tobacco blends due to an ingredient containing nicotine, what, other than an extract, could that ingredient possibly be?

 

[Porksmuggler]

Off to see what TPA has in stock on the tobacco molecule side of things. Just a hunch but a decent one worth exploring.

You may want to use the wayback machine for them too, they've removed quite a bit of the tobacco info I believe. Here's the current link for others interested.

Perfumers Apprentice - Molecules used in Tobacco Blends

*edit* reminder, none of those are tobacco based molecules, like those found in TA, TA blend, etc.

 

[Levitas]

I too would like to know if anything else besides a NET would contain nicotine, even trace amounts? Do tobacco flavorings themselves have any? I never ever even considered it before this thread.

I went on that hunt a few months ago, and came up with nothing. I googled my .... off looking for an ingredient, domestic or foreign, that contained nicotine. All that I could find were natural extracts. (Edit: Not to discourage you or anyone else to search! In fact, please do. I truly hope your efforts are more fruitful than mine were.)

I know that some have made mention that the mystery ingredient could be a pre-made base already containing nicotine. While I'm not completely saying that I disagree with that, it seems like cheap word play from Ben to mention that he cannot offer 0mg, when in fact, if this were the case, he 100% could. From what little I know of the guy, it doesn't sound like something he would do.

It's funny, this entire operation. One day, we'll get it, and we'll all laugh and stare at our screens in disbelief on how easy it probably is.

 

[Startle]

Where the seedmans may be useful for recreating a version of bobas, it is not an ingredient in bobas unless ben has fibbed about it being pg free. Not saying he is mind you, but Im still trying to find a list of vg flavorings circa 2009, if possible.

There is definitely some wiggle room for some of the flavors to be alcohol or distilled water based.

Quotes from early 2010:

1) A more suitable term might be "PG Free Liquids". Most of our Juices are 100% VG but some flavorings are based in alcohol or distilled water. The point being that they all will be good vapes for PG allergy sufferers.

In any event the majority of the liquid is VG with flavoring.

2) PG-free means mostly VG. Some of my juices are 100% VG but some have alcohol or distilled water based flavorings, so instead of making a specific distinction between them all I call them PG-free or mostly VG. This means all my liquids lack a PG presence and are still around 90% VG, if not a 100%.

 

[subver]

Do you guys think the fact you can only get Boba's in VG means anything, or is just a personal choice of Ben's?

 

[VIPOD]

It's funny, this entire operation. One day, we'll get it, and we'll all laugh and stare at our screens in disbelief on how easy it probably is.

Once we figure it out...the journey ends.

But I can guarantee that many of us have some serious e-juice recipes based on trial and error....I know I do.;-)

 

[ckone180]

Do you guys think the fact you can only get Boba's in VG means anything, or is just a personal choice of Ben's?

Ben needed to make VG juice for his wife, if I remember. So, its a choice by necessity?

 

[subver]

Ben needed to make VG juice for his wife, if I remember. So, its a choice by necessity?

Ah I see. Still, though, why not have the option for customers?
Maybe it just doesn't taste right with PG in it.