My Boba's clone

[Menthologist]

I think the graham cracker on its own maybe the way cos it does have cinnamon, honey, butter , vanilla,Chocolate already in there.
Its just the percentages we have to work out now.
I will have a play with just TA, Seedmans,Chocolate and start at total flavouring at 40%

Quick edit, Just done a mix of 10% TA/Seedmans 10% Graham cracker, I'm pickin up the chocolate and cinnamon straight away but no honey or buttery taste.

 

[buffaloguy]

See I went 10% TA/Seedmans, 2% Graham, 2% Chocolate, 1% DW and I didnt get that buttery background note either that bobas has. That why Im gonna go ba k and try cinn danish instead of graham cause I know its there in the cinn danish.

It did lead me to a thought tho... are there any tobaccos that have a buttery note to them that could be added to the TA/Seedmans mix? M-Type maybe?? Its a tangent, a big one, but might be worth thinking out loud about.

I dont still believe its 40% flavoring in Bobas. I think maybe he makes a premix of his flavors and uses that at 40%. However if (most of) his flavors are in VG base, that would explain why its not runny and so thick still.

Im operating on the assumption Bobas is an 85%VG/15% flavoring mix. The consistancey of the mix above verified that to me comparing to the viscosity of Bobas. While the flavorings (or some of them) are VG bases... how much is actually flavoring? So basically, I dont think bobas is all VG despite what Ben claims. It might be very low PG, but until I find a comparable source of flavors made in either water or 100% VG, then I have what Im working with. TPA flavors, Seedmans, and Dans TA mix were all around when Bobas was first created.

 

[Aheadatime]

I've mixed some TA in VG today at 3 drops per 10ml, and it's still settling in. I had to heat both the VG and the TA a bit to get them to blend well enough, but they're still not completely married.

I will be operating under the assumption that his 100% VG and his 40% flavor claims are true until that avenue proves impossible. Part of me suspects that whatever flavoring agents he uses have been pulled off of the site he used to buy them at tbh. Lets say for example that DIY Flavor Shack used to sell a VG-only Graham Cracker that tasted good mixed at 15%, but Ben was buying it in ridiculous amounts so it had to be pulled off of their menu and sold to him directly at a constant rate.

This would explain part of the issue were having finding pure VG flavors and if the flavor was weak enough, would also explain the 40% claim. In any case, it's going to need some attention and experimentation, particularly regarding the viscosity. Assuming it is indeed 100% VG nic, base, and flavors, there would need to be vinegar and/or water present to make it vapable, as that much VG would just clog up any device/bottle it touches.

 

[NamVet68]

......

This would explain part of the issue were having finding pure VG flavors and if the flavor was weak enough, would also explain the 40% claim. In any case, it's going to need some attention and experimentation, particularly regarding the viscosity. Assuming it is indeed 100% VG nic, base, and flavors, there would need to be vinegar and/or water present to make it vapable, as that much VG would just clog up any device/bottle it touches.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there definitely IS a little Distilled water in Boba's (I thought Ben mentioned it, but can't be certain)... Even though Boba's is some pretty thick juice, Pure VG (USP) is a lot thicker. I usually throw in about 5-10% Distilled water in my "100% VG" DIYs out of habit.... they wick much better, and produce more vapor.

It doesn't effect the flavor, as a matter of fact, I think it enhances the flavors because there is more vapor, and its cooler & denser...
Works for me...

 

[buffaloguy]

A little heat will solve that issue with the TA mixing into the VG. i normally only use 2 drops/10ml when using TA pure. Three is fine too tho. Just a bit stronger.

I understand your point on Ben buying up VG based flavors, but absolutely dont think thats the reason. As someone who has been in retail (not ecigs mind you) when a product sells out (esp fast) I buy more.... lots more. No one is going to tell me not to sell a product just because they are the only one that wants to buy it. If that was the case dlavoring manufacturers would be out of business. No one manufacturing or retailing can suevive forever with one customer unless you have govt contracts... lol.

The reason there arent VG based flavors is because VG does not make a good base for flavor extraction. Water, alcohol are the best, followed by pg, then something like triacetin, and then maybe vg depending on what it is. As far as I know there are zero 100% VG flavorings on the market. Ive never seen one that didnt have either water or alcohol or pg in ot as well.. This leads me to believe bens flavorings are alcohol or water based flavors. Water based, in general, would be wayyyyy weaker than alc based ones. Most super concentrates, for example, are alc based. Its not a case of Ave buying out anything so they have a corner on that product. Any flavor manufacturer would produce more to meet more demand in that case. Remember, one law of manufacturing here, supply = demand. More demand means more supply, not less. Its all about the $$.

Ben did say on one thread today that "100% PG free" would be a "better way" to describe his 100% VG juices. So that doesnt rule out water based stuff, or alc based stuff. Besides if he let the alcohol evap off he could still claim no alcohol in the juice either.

All food for thought. I still believe it can be replicated almost spot on whether the flavoring contains PG or not tho.

I've mixed some TA in VG today at 3 drops per 10ml, and it's still settling in. I had to heat both the VG and the TA a bit to get them to blend well enough, but they're still not completely married.

I will be operating under the assumption that his 100% VG and his 40% flavor claims are true until that avenue proves impossible. Part of me suspects that whatever flavoring agents he uses have been pulled off of the site he used to buy them at tbh. Lets say for example that DIY Flavor Shack used to sell a VG-only Graham Cracker that tasted good mixed at 15%, but Ben was buying it in ridiculous amounts so it had to be pulled off of their menu and sold to him directly at a constant rate.

This would explain part of the issue were having finding pure VG flavors and if the flavor was weak enough, would also explain the 40% claim. In any case, it's going to need some attention and experimentation, particularly regarding the viscosity. Assuming it is indeed 100% VG nic, base, and flavors, there would need to be vinegar and/or water present to make it vapable, as that much VG would just clog up any device/bottle it touches.

 

[buffaloguy]

You are absolutely correct on all of that. Especially on DW helping carry flavoring better in VG. I normally mix 80%VG/20% everything else. That might be only 4%flavor, 1% vinegar, and 15%DW, but that 80/20 will wick perfect in any atty I throw at it wether its wicked with mesh, silica, cotton, etc etc.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there definitely IS a little Distilled water in Boba's (I thought Ben mentioned it, but can't be certain)... Even though Boba's is some pretty thick juice, Pure VG (USP) is a lot thicker. I usually throw in about 5-10% Distilled water in my "100% VG" DIYs out of habit.... they wick much better, and produce more vapor.

It doesn't effect the flavor, as a matter of fact, I think it enhances the flavors because there is more vapor, and its cooler & denser...
Works for me...

 

[FACE MEAT]

I still believe it can be replicated almost spot on whether the flavoring contains PG or not tho.

I agree. For me, the fact that Boba's is so viscous is a drawback. If AVE offered a 50/50 Boba's Bounty, that's what I'd prefer to buy.

 

[SloHand]

I dont still believe its 40% flavoring in Bobas. I think maybe he makes a premix of his flavors and uses that at 40%. However if (most of) his flavors are in VG base, that would explain why its not runny and so thick still.

As I've said here before I've been playing with extracts. Tobacco extracts mostly and I have made some very good ones in VG. Takes more time is all. In fact in a recipe that I have been using for some time now, instead of using plain old VG (i.e. 15% Flavor, 10% DW and 75% VG at my nic level) I've been using the tobacco extracts as the 75% VG. These extracts are not that strong so they aren't overpowering the mix but are that rich flavor that you get in Boba's. The 15% flavor is just three flavors. So I'm in the ballpark .... four flavors(my extract counts as one of them) and 100%VG and this stuff rocks.

 

[buffaloguy]

It was a cobination of those in this thread working with extracts and the fact that TA pure was out of stock when Ave reopened and didnt have bobas that led me to realizing it was TA he was using. One thing in working with extracts is that their flavors change over time. I dont extract tobacco but I have done extracts of all sorts of things. Coffee, teas, herbs, even tried in vain for a solid month on fruits. When you make your own flavoring extracts they arent like the ones you buy from flavoring companies. The flavors can become very complex, even if they are subtle. TA pure is one of those extractions that is readily available, thankfully.

After finally trying bobas the first thing I thought to myself is..."Ive tasted all these flavors before." and I still know I have.

Funny thing is, there isnt anything really spactacular about bobas to me. Its certainly complex in its simplicity but I have a cabinet full of juices Ive made myself I enjoy far more. I suppose most DIY folks feel the same way.

My interest in deconstructing Bobas at this point is more a matter of dissecting the ingredients in a meal... as an avid home chef its just in my nature. I wanna know I can make the same thing anytime I want. IF I want it.

As I've said here before I've been playing with extracts. Tobacco extracts mostly and I have made some very good ones in VG. Takes more time is all. In fact in a recipe that I have been using for some time now, instead of using plain old VG (i.e. 15% Flavor, 10% DW and 75% VG at my nic level) I've been using the tobacco extracts as the 75% VG. These extracts are not that strong so they aren't overpowering the mix but are that rich flavor that you get in Boba's. The 15% flavor is just three flavors. So I'm in the ballpark .... four flavors(my extract counts as one of them) and 100%VG and this stuff rocks.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Just a note of interest I found amusing. Did you know there is a "Star Wars Cookbook". One of the recipes is called "Wookie Cookies".

Wookie Cookies Recipe - Food.com - 292038

They have brown sugar, chocolate, cinnamon, and vanilla.

On to my results. Its a toss up at this point. I am certain on the ingredients I am using, just not of percentages.

As for the tobacco part it is indeed TA and Seedmans. A pre mix of one part Tobacco Absolute Blend (alc) (in Bobas case this would be TA pure mixed down into VG and then made via Scubatdan's recipe.... but the alc blend will give similar results once the alc has evaporated) and two part seedmans commercial concentrate.

I am positive on this mix. I have no doubts this is the tobacco base for bobas. The percentage used however I need more testing Its likely from the samples I made so far its between 12-15% tobacco flavoring. I tried 12% last night and it was FAR closer to actual Bobas than 10%.

I removed using cinnamon danish from one mix. Instead I upped the graham cracker to 2% and double chocolate at 2% (both again tpa). I could still get the cinnamon note from the graham cracker but that butteryness was missing so I need to go back and make a mix with NO graham cracker and just cinnamon danish to compare.

I am confident and sure that the ingredients I have been using will make a VERY accurate bobas once percentages are hashed out.

Anyone who want to help have at it. If you have TA, seedmans commercial, and cinnamon danish, graham cracker, or double choclate (all tpa flavors) I could use a hand on this. Ill be happy to answer any questions.

Im absolutely certain Im close and have nearly cracked it. More to do yet tho... and I need to watch the mixes I have made to see how they mature as well.

Watching with interest buffalo! I was personally kind of sold on graham cracker and banana nut bread being in there...have you tried the banana nut bread, on its own or in any other context?

I'm going to order some cinnamon danish and double chocolate as I have everything else. Are you using the clear or dark double chocolate?

Perfumers Apprentice - Chocolate & Vanilla Flavors

 

[FLExJuice]

I've been vaping BB everyday trying to sort out the flavors....What's interesting, my mod switch didn't fire so I got a dry hit of what smelled/tasted like grape juice.

 

[buffaloguy]

I dont get bananna from Bobas at all so I havent gone that route. Im using the dbl chocolate clear. Still not certain on cinn danish or graham cracker for that matter but they are really close flavor profile wise. Im still messing with percentages tho.... also looking maybe toward another tobacco that might be buttery but thats a long shot. For now Im staying the course with what I have been working with.

Watching with interest buffalo! I was personally kind of sold on graham cracker and banana nut bread being in there...have you tried the banana nut bread, on its own or in any other context?

I'm going to order some cinnamon danish and double chocolate as I have everything else. Are you using the clear or dark double chocolate?

Perfumers Apprentice - Chocolate & Vanilla Flavors

 

[buffaloguy]

Ya TA will do that when it partially burns out with too much heat or not wicking well enuff. Thats that raisiny taste coming out when it scortches a bit.

Been there, done that... lol.

Or did you mean just straight juice in your mouth?

I've been vaping BB everyday trying to sort out the flavors....What's interesting, my mod switch didn't fire so I got a dry hit of what smelled/tasted like grape juice.

 

[FLExJuice]

Yep you're right Buffaloguy. Have you tried apple cider vinegar yet? I over did it on a recipe and it was yuck. But I remember reading that is what causes the flavors to change as it steeps.

Btw, to get buttery flavor, do I use TPA Butter? Humm what you think about peanut butter.

 

[buffaloguy]

Im thinking the buttery note Im getting isnt from a flavor like tpa butter. Its a part of something else like cinn danish or a nutty kind of tobacco like m-type or dk/555. But like I said thats a long shot. Either way its a background note, not a top note.

I have one mix with distilled white vinegar in it. Havent tried it yet. I dont use ACV although I have a gallon of it for cooking. I dont like the flavor it imparts to tobaccos ao I keep it cleaner and just use white vinegar, but they both act the same way in the end. The acv changes flavors too much for me personally.

 

[buffaloguy]

I just tried about five diff batches with differing percentages of cinn danish in my mixes and even at .5% it seems too strong. Any cinn Im getting has to be from the graham cracker. So Im gonna batch out what I have made with cinn danish and add some nic to it cause its.... damn tasty! lol. Not gonna let it go to waste! Its not cinn danish as much as I think its better than bobas... meh.

So Im gonna try a few other things with just graham and chocolate and TA at different percentages. Maybe a couple batches with those other tobaccos for the heck of it in the mix too. Read someplace bobas was three tobaccos and two flavors. I dont know how right that is tho.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Well I just mixed a batch of 1 to 2 parts TA blend to Seedman's commercial at 10% as I want to play with this one. Would you believe I've never actually tried this?

After this flavor profile settles for me I'm going to try adding graham cracker etc and see if I can get into the ballpark (going to order some double chocolate clear as well, thanks for clarifying that). So far the smell of EM seems overpowering (haven't tasted it yet) and I don't recall getting that from Boba's but its way to early to tell obviously as its still warm and venting

I hear you on the banana nut bread. I felt like it added a buttery rich thing to the mix that reminded me strongly of bobas and more so gorilla juice. I remember when I had boba's and gorilla juice side by side I felt like gorilla juice just turned up the volume (way up) on something banana-ish in bobas that was already there, but again just going on memory. I admit though when I was just vaping Boba's first in isolation I didn't get any banana from it at all.

 

[Porksmuggler]

Read someplace bobas was three tobaccos and two flavors. I dont know how right that is tho.

It's buried in the thread way back by now, but I had posted links to where Ben had mentioned a few things. Recap...

5 flavors, but none of these.
40% flavoring.
Tobacco hints.
Boba's with 3 tobacco flavorings.
No alcohol in Boba's Bounty.

 

[Aal_]

Buffalo appreciate your dedication. I think you will crack it soon. Kudos to you. But as you said once you crack it, we will be like, that doesn't taste as good as the previous ones we tried lol.

 

[FLExJuice]

It's buried in the thread way back by now, but I had posted links to where Ben had mentioned a few things. Recap...

5 flavors, but none of these.
40% flavoring.
Tobacco hints.
Boba's with 3 tobacco flavorings.
No alcohol in Boba's Bounty.

Good notes friend. What else is close to Chocolate? Ben said in the flavor comment, we are not even close.

I've been mulling over these hints...So here's my theory, my palate tells me it's chocolate but because I like certain candies that have a mixture of chocolate and caramel, I had to sort what my palate was really sensing. With this new info, my brain is registering caramel and not chocolate. And going back to why call it Boba Bounty in the first place. Most people don't just name something randomly unless they're trying to throw you off on purpose. The logic is more than Ben is a Starwars fan. There is something specific about Boba Fett and when this recipe is cracked, we'll slap ourselves because it was so simple. Part of it was Boba Fett was a clone and Ben was trying to clone a candy or dessert. If we can figure out what Ben was cloning then we can deduct the flavors.

I do believe there is a fruit flavor in the mix. I register raisin but that could be part of the profile of another fruit flavor. To me it's got some tart and a honey-like sweetness.