My technical questions summary

[salukikev]

I'm building a new system in which I have only two priorities: 1. Maximum visible smoke output & 2. Reliable operation (maintenance free longevity).

Here's my understanding so far:

• 3 fundamental ingredients are PG, VG, & PEG400
• VG typically is thicker in viscosity but yields the most smoke.
• PEG400 is typically used more as a diluent.
• Typical atomizers run at 1-5ohms for E-cigarettes
• Typical resistance coil material is Nichrome-C .003-.008" dia

(please feel free to correct the above if I've got this wrong)

Here are some questions I have:
What specific atomizer temperature should I be targeting for the most effective combination of the two goals above? (resistance coils I've inquired about evidently commonly exceed 1000deg C)
What wick options are preferred for use in this scenario (fiberglass, ceramic, silicone fiber, cotton, poly?)
When wrapping a wick with resistance wire- can I wrap too tightly? I feel like I can- such that it restricts the flow of fluid before it gets to the wire. Or maybe I should occasionally sew the wire through the center?
What alternatives have been tried for the heating element (atomizer)?
Can ultrasonic vaporizers deliver more smoke? Are they effective on the above ingredients or just extremely thinned liquids?
Has anyone tried PTC heater pellets (ceramic heaters) or kapton/foil heaters? (typically these will only get to 260c/500f)

I know this includes a lot of mixed bag of questions/topics, but I've been fairly amazed at the collective knowledge of these systems on the forum- so please feel free to chime in with any input you might have. I'm all ears!

 

[cadcoke5]

While I haven't gotten into making my own coils from scratch, I don't see anything wrong with what you have said.

Another thing to add, as being very important for visible vapor production, is air flow over the coil. It really surprises me how much that affects things. Too much and you are diluting the smoke itself with air and thinning it out. But too little, and your vapor production can be dramatically reduced.

I have not experimented with the fluids much. I suspect the purpose of the PG and/or the VG is to keep the vapor visible. If you had only water, then steam (which is actually invisible) would be produced, and that would quickly condense into a visible vapor (a collection of liquid water in tiny particles). However, the water vapor tends to evaporate quickly, and so, disappears from view. If those tiny droplets of H2O also have the PG and/or VG, then the PG & VG is left behind and lingers for a longer time, staying visible.

The ultrasonics, as in your typical humidifier, are considered a dead end that has been tried. The thickness of the liquid is apparently an issue that prevents it from being viable.

I got into e-cigs, not because I wanted to quit cigarettes, since I had never smoked, but because I wanted to make a smoke generator for a puppet.

What is your motivation for maximum vapor production? Are you using any flavoring, or are really only interested in the visible vapor?

-Joe Dunfee

 

[salukikev]

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the reply! I'm only interested in the visible vapor- no flavoring, although there may be a smell added.
Like you, I'm neither a regular smoker nor a vaper, but the project I'm involved with is using nearly identical technology to e-cigarettes and we're looking for some improvements.
Another thread somewhere mentioned use of a nickel metal foam as a wick-- I have some ideas spurred by that thought, so now I'm trying to find a good source for a metal wick that will move pg at a decent rate through capillary action.
Thanks for the help!
-k

 

[phdillard]

the project I'm involved with is using nearly identical technology to e-cigarettes and we're looking for some improvements.
-k

Not to pry, but the kinds of questions you are asking has me interested. What exactly are you trying to vaporize? The only other 2 things commonly vaporized at this point besides eliquid would be ......... as seen in the vape pens that are gaining popularity in Colorado, or humidifier solutions.

As far as wicking material, silicone seems to be the preferred material as cotton can result in dry hits, fiberglass poses potential health issues, and ceramic is still too new to be used in a widespread manner. Also, cheesecloth seems to be a favorite of the DIYers.

Ohms and temps are going to depend on what exactly you are trying to vape. While pg/vg may vape at certain temp, your specific item/chemical may vape at a much higher or lower temp than the pg/vg itself. If that turns out to be the case, then you'd have to find another suspension medium to adequately vape whatever the desired item/chemical may be.

When it comes down to it, vaping is based on a basic electrical circuit and as such can be scaled to any size from ipod nanos to industrial sized electrical ovens....they're all just a circuit.

The info you provided as your foundation is correct though, so you're on the right path to whatever it is you have going on. One note though, you may want to say vapor/vape instead of smoke, as many people here draw a very distinct line between vaping and smoking.

 

[cadcoke5]

For the dragon puppet project, a major issue was finding an atomizer that didn't leak in any orientation. This was because it was going inside the puppet, and even a small leak would make a major mess that couldn't be fixed by simply throwing the puppet in the washing machine. The only kind that didn't have a leak issue in my tests were the kind that had a batting material wrapped around a coil... i.e. the traditional cartomizer. And while you can get those with clear sides, you still can't see how much fluid is in there. And, note that burning dry will burn many wick materials. Normally a person using an e-cig for vaping will notice when an atomizer runs dry and will stop. But, without that human control, it is easy to run it dry.

Another major technical issue is the air source. A compressor, like a battery operated fish aerator, is noisy. I came across some tiny squirrel cage fans, but sometime an atomizer can get flooded (i.e. "Gurgley"), and then needs a little pressure to blow that extra fluid out.

If you are into this for a magician's effect, then I can also direct you to sources for existing products for that. They are reasonably priced, compared to the cost of making something equivalent yourself.

-Joe Dunfee

 

[salukikev]

Not to pry, but the kinds of questions you are asking has me interested. What exactly are you trying to vaporize?

Again- I'm just into it for the visual- so I'm trying to vaporize whatever will deliver the largest quantity of thick, visible (safe) smoke/vapor. All else notwithstanding, I imagine that would be VG, however given that the wicking abilities of PG appear to be much improved, I guess that's my 1st choice now when considering the complete system.
So- I need the best flowing wick, the most reliable and appropriate heater, and the best mix of fluids to work with them.

Cadcoke- I'll PM you in a moment! Thanks for the reply!