Are you saying you use the silica rope "instead" of the metal mesh?? Have you used it in the k808's yet. If so, hows it doing. I'm getting a lot of burnt flavor out of them.
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Ok, I am finally caught up enough after the holiday travels to do some work on this. I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of information posted to the thread. Hopefully, I can spur some more testing (and posting).
I'm vaping on a ceramic heater with a silica braid wick as I type, but it isn't without drawbacks. The silica braid will easily absorb 10-12 drops of fluid without leaking, and wicks to the heater. Configured like this, the heater takes about a minute to produce vapor, and needs continuous current. I use a 16340 (CR123) 3.6V 880mAh or an 18650 3.7V 2600mAh to power it A fully charged 18650 runs for about an hour until it stops producing vapor, and the vapor starts to decline after about 40 minutes. The outside of the atomizer tube heats up to the point where it will burn your fingers, so be careful. This is the process I used to create the atomizer.
Ceramic Atomizer - a set on Flickr
Obviously there is more work to do, especially to avoid the constant voltage issue. I agree that a higher voltage is required, but I'm concerned about how hot the atomizer tube gets using this heater. I suspect the heater will be better suited to a juicebox style mod where we can control a vaporizing chamber, and better insulate it from contact with fingers.
If anyone has trouble with the Flickr feed, let me know and I'll transfer everything inline here.
Thanks,
Quit4myKids
I'm vaping on a ceramic heater with a silica braid wick as I type, but it isn't without drawbacks. The silica braid will easily absorb 10-12 drops of fluid without leaking, and wicks to the heater. Configured like this, the heater takes about a minute to produce vapor, and needs continuous current. I use a 16340 (CR123) 3.6V 880mAh or an 18650 3.7V 2600mAh to power it A fully charged 18650 runs for about an hour until it stops producing vapor, and the vapor starts to decline after about 40 minutes. The outside of the atomizer tube heats up to the point where it will burn your fingers, so be careful. This is the process I used to create the atomizer.
Ceramic Atomizer - a set on Flickr
Obviously there is more work to do, especially to avoid the constant voltage issue. I agree that a higher voltage is required, but I'm concerned about how hot the atomizer tube gets using this heater. I suspect the heater will be better suited to a juicebox style mod where we can control a vaporizing chamber, and better insulate it from contact with fingers.
If anyone has trouble with the Flickr feed, let me know and I'll transfer everything inline here.
Thanks,
Quit4myKids
I think the problem may be the air flow....
On oem atty's there is that hole directly under the coil. that mists the hot coil with ejuice. that is obviously missing from this attempt.
Does it really take that long (1 min.) to make vapor?
The way you wrapped the coil is just how I would have attempted to do it. Too bad its performance is so bad. (40 min) from a 18650. Le sigh..
I wished this thread the best of luck. Hopefully there are more promising results.
Thanks for giving us an update on this Q4mK. And thanks for your interest in making this a real project for everyone.
Just my 2 cents
Jason
On oem atty's there is that hole directly under the coil. that mists the hot coil with ejuice. that is obviously missing from this attempt.
Does it really take that long (1 min.) to make vapor?
The way you wrapped the coil is just how I would have attempted to do it. Too bad its performance is so bad. (40 min) from a 18650. Le sigh..
I wished this thread the best of luck. Hopefully there are more promising results.
Thanks for giving us an update on this Q4mK. And thanks for your interest in making this a real project for everyone.
Just my 2 cents
Jason
Actually, the air flow is the same in terms of the "bubbling up" effect through the bottom of the cup, since a regular nichrome coil cup from a BE112 atomizer is being utilized, and the holes are in that cup. Also, I found it to be necessary to put a couple of metal tubes down the sides of the atomizer tube to improve the airflow.
Q4mK
Q4mK
Just took a look at the pictures on flickr. Two things come to mind.
1. You are heating up too much mass.
2. Why bother with the silica rope. The cool thing about a ceramic heater is that you could use the steel foam (as long as you keep it away from the contacts).
Maybe it would be a good idea to get a ceramic cup that is deep enough to cover the whole element. I think the ceramic cup keeps the heat away from the outer tube (fingers) and works like a small oven. You could use just a small disk of metal foam placed at the top of the element. As the hot air is drawn through the foam it only has to heat up a small amount of juice.
1. You are heating up too much mass.
2. Why bother with the silica rope. The cool thing about a ceramic heater is that you could use the steel foam (as long as you keep it away from the contacts).
Maybe it would be a good idea to get a ceramic cup that is deep enough to cover the whole element. I think the ceramic cup keeps the heat away from the outer tube (fingers) and works like a small oven. You could use just a small disk of metal foam placed at the top of the element. As the hot air is drawn through the foam it only has to heat up a small amount of juice.
I agree with Bagazo. Too much mass.
With that big clump of silica rope around the heater, it has to heat all of that mass up to vape temp before vaporizing liquid. This is also why the body of the atty is getting so hot. The heater, silica rope, and atty body are all getting up to 'vape temp' together. You need an air buffer between the heat source and the atty body, or it will be to hot to touch.
I would try your test again with just the few strands that were shown in the one pic (before adding the clump). I'm guessing you are going to get vapor much quicker.
When I 'tested' my heater, it got hot enough to burn my fingers within 1-2 sec of applying power (4.2V). So I'm guessing if you get rid of the big heatsink (silica clump/atty body) in your configuration, it will vape much quicker and not require a constant power source.
Stop here and put the body on...
With that big clump of silica rope around the heater, it has to heat all of that mass up to vape temp before vaporizing liquid. This is also why the body of the atty is getting so hot. The heater, silica rope, and atty body are all getting up to 'vape temp' together. You need an air buffer between the heat source and the atty body, or it will be to hot to touch.
I would try your test again with just the few strands that were shown in the one pic (before adding the clump). I'm guessing you are going to get vapor much quicker.
When I 'tested' my heater, it got hot enough to burn my fingers within 1-2 sec of applying power (4.2V). So I'm guessing if you get rid of the big heatsink (silica clump/atty body) in your configuration, it will vape much quicker and not require a constant power source.
Stop here and put the body on...
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Would think the same - but likely the entire atty would need to be located closer to the cart stuffing to properly prime and flow.
BTW, been following the thread for a while as I also intuit the ceramic heater is the way - and I have nothing but great kudo's for your work to perfect it! The great talent pool and persistence should pay off.
(Only wish I had a prototype to play with . . .maybe the next round
)As we say in Hawaii - Imua! Move forward!
kai
Been super busy with work lately. Plus I have other mods going on that involve quite a bit of time. I will try to get something going again here shortly. I already told you guys if that heater is in contact with much of anything it will not vape well. It transfers heat very fast due to its size. I tried to suspend it (during my last attempt), and in doing so almost tore off a lead. I was sort of waiting for some other results before I tried again. I think I will try again.
Anyone know where I can get metal tubes in the 1mm range? I would like to be able to bend the material (mildly) and it still retain e ability to transfer fluid (not collapse).
You can look for very small diameter copper cap tube but I think it's impossible to get. The only US supplier I found wants a mill run of at least 100 pounds. Otherwise there's a place in UK that makes very small diameter and then there's China. None respond to inquiries.
Edit: 20 ga hypodermic needles are around 0.88 mm
Edit: 20 ga hypodermic needles are around 0.88 mm
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Sorry for the long time between posts.....
Was messing around with the little heater and found that less is more in that a small wrap of wick around the actual heated portion is what does the trick. Unfortunately, the trick appears to be small, just doesn't produce much vapor. In my experiments, had to wait a long time for it to start giving off vapor(1min.+ like q4mk's report), even then it wasn't much. Then... it developed a crack going longitudinally down the middle. Then, my power supply went hoooky. So, now I've beefed up my power supply, just waiting for the batt.s to charge. Going to see if the heater will work even w/a crack, don't feel like I need to treat it delicately any more. Good Luck to everyone in this, I know we're close!
Was messing around with the little heater and found that less is more in that a small wrap of wick around the actual heated portion is what does the trick. Unfortunately, the trick appears to be small, just doesn't produce much vapor. In my experiments, had to wait a long time for it to start giving off vapor(1min.+ like q4mk's report), even then it wasn't much. Then... it developed a crack going longitudinally down the middle. Then, my power supply went hoooky. So, now I've beefed up my power supply, just waiting for the batt.s to charge. Going to see if the heater will work even w/a crack, don't feel like I need to treat it delicately any more. Good Luck to everyone in this, I know we're close!
Hobby shops carry flats angle and tubes all under 1/4 inch. I'm not sure how small they go though. I was looking for 1/4 inch. I think they had brass, copper and aluminum.
Saw the exact same display in several stores.
Dead simple. Block one end of the tube, fill with water, block the other end. Freeze the water and bend to your hearts content!! You won't crush it as long as the ice holds the inside form. (in other words stop when it has melted)
Captube can be bought at most all a/c, refrig. supply houses. It's ususlly in about 10' rolls usually in several different sizes.
If he wants a metal tube with an ID of 1 mm, no problem.
If he wants an OD of 1 mm, he won't find it at a HVAC store. Slightly less than 2 mm OD is about as small as it comes for HVAC.
If he wants an OD of 1 mm, he won't find it at a HVAC store. Slightly less than 2 mm OD is about as small as it comes for HVAC.
add soap to water, fine sand or clay will work too, pack hard
Thanks for the replies guys. I think in the end I can simply get a larger diameter tube (which would still have to be on the small side (1mm to 3mm)) and crimp the tip until the desired size is achieved.
What's this for? 2 things.
1.) An airflow tube.
2.) A tube to pump juice onto the atomizer (ceramic or coil).
If the silica is messing up the vapor performance then it should not be there. Idea is to soak the ceramic & drain so that the ceramic has liquid on it but it does not have anything else touching it to absorb heat.
The problem then becomes (as stated earlier) if the airflow across the ceramic causes the temp to drop too much. Unlike conventional coils the coils inside the ceramic are enclosed and cannot benefit from air (oxygen) passing across.
In conventional atomizers you can visually see the coils glow MUCH stronger if you turn it on and blow inside. So airflow is a benefit to raw coils, but most likely will hurt the performance of these ceramic heaters.
My hope is in how they function. If the current draw is dependent on temp then it should quickly adjust as airflow cools it down to get to an equilibrium of some sort (would be drawing more current though but ohh well).
Anyways. Thems thar are mah thoughts.
What's this for? 2 things.
1.) An airflow tube.
2.) A tube to pump juice onto the atomizer (ceramic or coil).
If the silica is messing up the vapor performance then it should not be there. Idea is to soak the ceramic & drain so that the ceramic has liquid on it but it does not have anything else touching it to absorb heat.
The problem then becomes (as stated earlier) if the airflow across the ceramic causes the temp to drop too much. Unlike conventional coils the coils inside the ceramic are enclosed and cannot benefit from air (oxygen) passing across.
In conventional atomizers you can visually see the coils glow MUCH stronger if you turn it on and blow inside. So airflow is a benefit to raw coils, but most likely will hurt the performance of these ceramic heaters.
My hope is in how they function. If the current draw is dependent on temp then it should quickly adjust as airflow cools it down to get to an equilibrium of some sort (would be drawing more current though but ohh well).
Anyways. Thems thar are mah thoughts.
Just finished rereading this thread and want to commend you guys on the work so far, looks promising.
I did some googling and came across these porous ceramic cups that can be custom made(min order I'm sure). I sent them an inquiry, we'll see what happens.
Here is the link to some specs on them. Maybe something that would help here.
Possibly putting the coil and wick directly into the cup? Just throwing some ideas out there.
I did some googling and came across these porous ceramic cups that can be custom made(min order I'm sure). I sent them an inquiry, we'll see what happens.
Here is the link to some specs on them. Maybe something that would help here.
Possibly putting the coil and wick directly into the cup? Just throwing some ideas out there.
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