Sorry, between my auto correct and vague post I don't think I was clear. By advanced replacement I didn't mean a newer version. In my job we often get things rma'd with advanced replacement. Meaning they take a credit card number and ship out the replacement. You get the new one and replace the old. Then send the old back. As long as they receive the old within like 7 days all is well. If they don't, then they just charge the credit card for the new one.
My thoughts and issues with the DNA40
- Thread starter rusirius
- Start date
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- Status
Does your board have the display ribbon siliconed to the board as shown in the dna40 pdf ?
If not, maybe your board has the issue they talk about in the pdf. Looks like a simple fix fwiw
If not, maybe your board has the issue they talk about in the pdf. Looks like a simple fix fwiw
Well, here's the latest update for the ones that are tracking this thread...
After extensive testing I've pretty much concluded that this is some sort of strange problem with the board which happens to run a little deeper than just the screen. Here's what I have figured out, and it's very strange indeed.
If I pick it up and vape on it in stealth mode, it absolutely will not under any circumstances lock the screen up. I can vape away for hours and click the button and still get a good display.
Once it's warmed up it also doesn't seem to have this problem. In other words, if I start off in stealth mode, vape away for 10 minutes or so and then switch over to normal mode, it'll function just perfect.... Until I sit it down... If I sit it down long enough that the screen powers off, then it's anybodies guess as to rather it will work when you pick it back up, but MOST of the time, it'll glitch out and lock up on the first hit.
The condition of the coil seems to aggravate this problem. If I have a coil that is freshly wrapped but not "balanced" (i.e. pulsing to a faint glow and compressing/nudging to get it firing perfectly even from the inside out) it will almost certainly glitch each and every time... When the coil is well balanced and perfect then it happens much less frequently, though it still occasionally happens.
When the screen locks up and glitches, it doesn't always JUST affect the screen... Sometimes it does and you can vape away happily with no issues... Other times it "freaks out" sometimes disabling the TP mode, sometimes seemingly drastically reducing wattage, etc (though that can't be confirmed as the screen locks up. It may in fact just be a drastic reduction of the preset temperature limit since often times when the screen glitches out it will indicate "212F" on the temperature setting.) Weird number huh?
So at this point, what I've basically found is that if I leave it in stealth mode I can happily vape away all day long without any problems.
Evolv has offered to replace the board, but frankly at this point, I don't want to go without it for any long period of time. I truly like it that much, so I've ordered a second board and once it arrives I'll ship this one back. When it gets returned I'll build another box to have as a backup or "wife stole my good one" box...
So... Once I discovered that it works fine in stealth mode I could honestly vape away on it without wanting to kick someone in the teeth. The more I've used it the more I've come to love it. Last night I sat with about 15 bottles of juice, I'd put 6 or 7 drops in (using an Atomic) and vape away... When it dried up I'd take a couple more good tokes to get the wick nice and dry and then drip 6 or 7 drops of a different juice. I did this with absolute ZERO cross-fade between the juices... No taste of the old juice was left behind at once. That in itself was quite an experience... To be able to switch juices every few minutes without having to re-wick or change anything... And to never have the slightest bit of taste cross over into the next... It truly was a remarkable and very different experience.
The other thing I've discovered is that juices just taste.... "Better"... Well... Maybe not always better, but definitely different... Much "cleaner"... In any of my other rigs even with optimal setups there's still a "taste" that's imparted to the juice... It's not a burnt taste... Don't mistake what I'm saying here... I want to say "toasted" but that's no where near what I'm talking about... It's just different... Not in a bad way... Let me put it like this... Solid State amps are capable of being the absolute clearest and most perfect amps on the planet. They can produce a remarkably clean sound with so little noise and distortion it's ridiculous.... Though there are those who absolutely swear by, and love, tube amps... To them they sound "Better"... And it's exactly BECAUSE they aren't so crisp and clean that they sound that way... It's the slight harmonics and distortions that they introduce that give the sound that unique characteristic.
Get what I'm saying? Just because solid state amps are more "clean" doesn't necessarily mean it's "better"... It's just different...
This DNA40 to me is the pinnacle of "clean". You taste juice... nothing but juice... Sitting there last night I "rediscovered" some of the old juices I had laying around. Does that mean every juice tastes "better"? No.. Some of them I actually prefer with that "distorted" taste... I make one juice that tastes like the old blueberry morning cereal... It's blueberry with a hint of cinnamon and some graham cracker, etc... I actually prefer it in another device that imparts that "toasty" flavor... On the other hand, many juices I prefer the cleaner taste... It's not good or bad... It's just VERY VERY clean....
So bottom line? I've grown a small place in my heart for this thing. Despite the issues I've had with it and that ... .... ............. ....... ... NI200. Yes it's a heck of learning curve and I still hate working with the wire, despite what I consider to be pretty darn good building skills.... But is it worth the $60? Oh absolutely... Will you regret buying it? Not likely....
But take the time to understand exactly how and why this thing works... I really can't stress that enough... I've seen people who still think that the temperature and wattage are independent. They aren't... You can't OUTPUT a high wattage because of the temperature limit... The wattage is what CONTROLS the temperature... Yes you can SET a higher wattage, but it doesn't magically output that high wattage but mystically manage to keep the temperature low... Remember the temperature is just a limit... It won't allow the coil to reach a temperature above that setting regardless of the wattage... It does this by CHANGING the wattage... I've seen all sorts of claims about running it at a very low temperature and cranking up the wattage, or vice versa... And lots of other posts and info where you could tell that a lot of people out there just don't understand the concept or idea behind this device.
In my opinion, if you're going to use this in TP mode, which you absolutely should... Then you have one setting to worry about.... The temperature... How do you set that temp? Easy.... The best thing to do is find the charring point of your wicking material... Wrap your coil and wick it... Then fire it at a lower temp setting..... Bump it up and slide the wick.... Keep doing that and eventually you'll find the temp where the wick starts to brown... That's where you know you've reached the max temp your wick can handle completely dry... I wouldn't exceed that point... As for where to set it below that? It's up to you... The higher you set it the warmer the vape will be... You might find that a particular juice tastes better at one setting, but in generally I've found that all of mine taste perfect through a wide range of temperatures... I leave mine set for 460 degrees. My rayon has a MUCH higher charring point than that, but even if I wick with cotton, the cotton I use doesn't brown until 470-480...
As for wattage? Set it to the max... 40W... I have it locked at 40 and haven't touched it.... Why? Because you don't have to! That's the whole point of this... Yes it can put 40W out.... but it will regulate down as low as it needs to be to maintain whatever temperature I've set. The ONLY time you should have to worry about wattage is if you are getting too much vapor. If it's kicking out more than you want, then lower the wattage until it only puts out the amount of vapor you are happy with.
Remember... Just as VW mods "took away" the need to worry about setting voltage... This basically "takes away" the need to worry about setting wattage...
That's all for now...
After extensive testing I've pretty much concluded that this is some sort of strange problem with the board which happens to run a little deeper than just the screen. Here's what I have figured out, and it's very strange indeed.
If I pick it up and vape on it in stealth mode, it absolutely will not under any circumstances lock the screen up. I can vape away for hours and click the button and still get a good display.
Once it's warmed up it also doesn't seem to have this problem. In other words, if I start off in stealth mode, vape away for 10 minutes or so and then switch over to normal mode, it'll function just perfect.... Until I sit it down... If I sit it down long enough that the screen powers off, then it's anybodies guess as to rather it will work when you pick it back up, but MOST of the time, it'll glitch out and lock up on the first hit.
The condition of the coil seems to aggravate this problem. If I have a coil that is freshly wrapped but not "balanced" (i.e. pulsing to a faint glow and compressing/nudging to get it firing perfectly even from the inside out) it will almost certainly glitch each and every time... When the coil is well balanced and perfect then it happens much less frequently, though it still occasionally happens.
When the screen locks up and glitches, it doesn't always JUST affect the screen... Sometimes it does and you can vape away happily with no issues... Other times it "freaks out" sometimes disabling the TP mode, sometimes seemingly drastically reducing wattage, etc (though that can't be confirmed as the screen locks up. It may in fact just be a drastic reduction of the preset temperature limit since often times when the screen glitches out it will indicate "212F" on the temperature setting.) Weird number huh?
So at this point, what I've basically found is that if I leave it in stealth mode I can happily vape away all day long without any problems.
Evolv has offered to replace the board, but frankly at this point, I don't want to go without it for any long period of time. I truly like it that much, so I've ordered a second board and once it arrives I'll ship this one back. When it gets returned I'll build another box to have as a backup or "wife stole my good one" box...
So... Once I discovered that it works fine in stealth mode I could honestly vape away on it without wanting to kick someone in the teeth. The more I've used it the more I've come to love it. Last night I sat with about 15 bottles of juice, I'd put 6 or 7 drops in (using an Atomic) and vape away... When it dried up I'd take a couple more good tokes to get the wick nice and dry and then drip 6 or 7 drops of a different juice. I did this with absolute ZERO cross-fade between the juices... No taste of the old juice was left behind at once. That in itself was quite an experience... To be able to switch juices every few minutes without having to re-wick or change anything... And to never have the slightest bit of taste cross over into the next... It truly was a remarkable and very different experience.
The other thing I've discovered is that juices just taste.... "Better"... Well... Maybe not always better, but definitely different... Much "cleaner"... In any of my other rigs even with optimal setups there's still a "taste" that's imparted to the juice... It's not a burnt taste... Don't mistake what I'm saying here... I want to say "toasted" but that's no where near what I'm talking about... It's just different... Not in a bad way... Let me put it like this... Solid State amps are capable of being the absolute clearest and most perfect amps on the planet. They can produce a remarkably clean sound with so little noise and distortion it's ridiculous.... Though there are those who absolutely swear by, and love, tube amps... To them they sound "Better"... And it's exactly BECAUSE they aren't so crisp and clean that they sound that way... It's the slight harmonics and distortions that they introduce that give the sound that unique characteristic.
Get what I'm saying? Just because solid state amps are more "clean" doesn't necessarily mean it's "better"... It's just different...
This DNA40 to me is the pinnacle of "clean". You taste juice... nothing but juice... Sitting there last night I "rediscovered" some of the old juices I had laying around. Does that mean every juice tastes "better"? No.. Some of them I actually prefer with that "distorted" taste... I make one juice that tastes like the old blueberry morning cereal... It's blueberry with a hint of cinnamon and some graham cracker, etc... I actually prefer it in another device that imparts that "toasty" flavor... On the other hand, many juices I prefer the cleaner taste... It's not good or bad... It's just VERY VERY clean....
So bottom line? I've grown a small place in my heart for this thing. Despite the issues I've had with it and that ... .... ............. ....... ... NI200. Yes it's a heck of learning curve and I still hate working with the wire, despite what I consider to be pretty darn good building skills.... But is it worth the $60? Oh absolutely... Will you regret buying it? Not likely....
But take the time to understand exactly how and why this thing works... I really can't stress that enough... I've seen people who still think that the temperature and wattage are independent. They aren't... You can't OUTPUT a high wattage because of the temperature limit... The wattage is what CONTROLS the temperature... Yes you can SET a higher wattage, but it doesn't magically output that high wattage but mystically manage to keep the temperature low... Remember the temperature is just a limit... It won't allow the coil to reach a temperature above that setting regardless of the wattage... It does this by CHANGING the wattage... I've seen all sorts of claims about running it at a very low temperature and cranking up the wattage, or vice versa... And lots of other posts and info where you could tell that a lot of people out there just don't understand the concept or idea behind this device.
In my opinion, if you're going to use this in TP mode, which you absolutely should... Then you have one setting to worry about.... The temperature... How do you set that temp? Easy.... The best thing to do is find the charring point of your wicking material... Wrap your coil and wick it... Then fire it at a lower temp setting..... Bump it up and slide the wick.... Keep doing that and eventually you'll find the temp where the wick starts to brown... That's where you know you've reached the max temp your wick can handle completely dry... I wouldn't exceed that point... As for where to set it below that? It's up to you... The higher you set it the warmer the vape will be... You might find that a particular juice tastes better at one setting, but in generally I've found that all of mine taste perfect through a wide range of temperatures... I leave mine set for 460 degrees. My rayon has a MUCH higher charring point than that, but even if I wick with cotton, the cotton I use doesn't brown until 470-480...
As for wattage? Set it to the max... 40W... I have it locked at 40 and haven't touched it.... Why? Because you don't have to! That's the whole point of this... Yes it can put 40W out.... but it will regulate down as low as it needs to be to maintain whatever temperature I've set. The ONLY time you should have to worry about wattage is if you are getting too much vapor. If it's kicking out more than you want, then lower the wattage until it only puts out the amount of vapor you are happy with.
Remember... Just as VW mods "took away" the need to worry about setting voltage... This basically "takes away" the need to worry about setting wattage...
That's all for now...
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Ooohhhh! Now I understand!
This fine print is a not so subtle reminder to always read the fine print before signing anything.
This DNA40 to me is the pinnacle of "clean". You taste juice... nothing but juice... Sitting there last night I "rediscovered" some of the old juices I had laying around. Does that mean every juice tastes "better"? No.. Some of them I actually prefer with that "distorted" taste... I make one juice that tastes like the old blueberry morning cereal... It's blueberry with a hint of cinnamon and some graham cracker, etc... I actually prefer it in another device that imparts that "toasty" flavor... On the other hand, many juices I prefer the cleaner taste... It's not good or bad... It's just VERY VERY clean....
So bottom line? I've grown a small place in my heart for this thing. Despite the issues I've had with it and that ... .... ............. ....... ... NI200. Yes it's a heck of learning curve and I still hate working with the wire, despite what I consider to be pretty darn good building skills.... But is it worth the $60? Oh absolutely... Will you regret buying it? Not likely....
But take the time to understand exactly how and why this thing works... I really can't stress that enough... I've seen people who still think that the temperature and wattage are independent. They aren't... You can't OUTPUT a high wattage because of the temperature limit... The wattage is what CONTROLS the temperature... Yes you can SET a higher wattage, but it doesn't magically output that high wattage but mystically manage to keep the temperature low... Remember the temperature is just a limit... It won't allow the coil to reach a temperature above that setting regardless of the wattage... It does this by CHANGING the wattage... I've seen all sorts of claims about running it at a very low temperature and cranking up the wattage, or vice versa... And lots of other posts and info where you could tell that a lot of people out there just don't understand the concept or idea behind this device.
In my opinion, if you're going to use this in TP mode, which you absolutely should... Then you have one setting to worry about.... The temperature... How do you set that temp? Easy.... The best thing to do is find the charring point of your wicking material... Wrap your coil and wick it... Then fire it at a lower temp setting..... Bump it up and slide the wick.... Keep doing that and eventually you'll find the temp where the wick starts to brown... That's where you know you've reached the max temp your wick can handle completely dry... I wouldn't exceed that point... As for where to set it below that? It's up to you... The higher you set it the warmer the vape will be... You might find that a particular juice tastes better at one setting, but in generally I've found that all of mine taste perfect through a wide range of temperatures... I leave mine set for 460 degrees. My rayon has a MUCH higher charring point than that, but even if I wick with cotton, the cotton I use doesn't brown until 470-480...
As for wattage? Set it to the max... 40W... I have it locked at 40 and haven't touched it.... Why? Because you don't have to! That's the whole point of this... Yes it can put 40W out.... but it will regulate down as low as it needs to be to maintain whatever temperature I've set. The ONLY time you should have to worry about wattage is if you are getting too much vapor. If it's kicking out more than you want, then lower the wattage until it only puts out the amount of vapor you are happy with.
Remember... Just as VW mods "took away" the need to worry about setting voltage... This basically "takes away" the need to worry about setting wattage...
That's all for now...
^right there^ this clears up (simplifies) so much of what is going around among so many DNA40 threads.
Thanks Rusirius!
guidelines regarding coil building tips might be helpful too
LMAO!!! I wish I had some tips for building coils out of NI200!!! I truly do loath the stuff... LOL... If you find any good ones let me know!
In all honesty though, it has been a royal pain in the ..... I've tried a bunch of different variations. So far, this is the best method I've found...
First I do what was suggested by another poster and "work harden" the wire. Basically just continually bending and straitening it. There's a youtube video about doing it... Clamp one end down and use a rag to grip it and pull it through your fingers basically making a "Z" bend in it as you go... After about 20 or 30 passes it stiffens up a bit and seems to work much better... It does get a little more springy, but that doesn't seem to be too big of an issue.
Second clean it off... I've been using some 99.9% alcohol that i use to clean electronics...
Third wrap the coil.... same way you do any other coil....
Fourth... Balance it out... I've found the nickel to be quite a bear in trying to get it to fire evenly... I know there are plenty of people that don't "glow" the coils or try to get them to fire evenly, and I didn't at first, but it made a big difference once I started doing it. What I do is turn the TP off and set the power for something reasonable depending on how large the coils are... Then I pulse fire it. Almost every coil I've ever made will start off by heating just 1 or 2 of the wraps while the rest of the coil stays dark. This part seems to be very finicky... You don't want to get the coil glowing red hot like you would with kanthal. Just as a test I did this once and saw some really strange things happening... small beads forming on the coil.. I assume it was probably carbon? Also the metal itself fatigues very easily... On the other hand if you don't heat it up enough it never seems to want to start balancing out. It truly is a balancing act... I just keep pulsing and squeezing and nudging... Eventually it'll start firing evenly... from the inside out just like a nice kanthal coil... Again, I feel like the key here is to make sure you aren't getting it TOO hot... you want just enough power on it to be able to see where the hot spots are. I guess if we all had FLIR's this wouldn't be an issue...
Anyway, once I've got the coil(s) balanced and firing right then I go ahead and wick it as normal.... So far this has produced really great results for me.
thanks ^
I'm one that absolutely doesn't (yet) glow or look for hot spots.
I just wrapped my 4th coil and I actually feel like the Ni200 (30g) is a bit easier to trap on to the screw-head posts compared to thicker K wire because its thinner for one and because it's less springy it stays in place once you bend it around the screw head post and screw it down.
Wrapping micro's is like second nature to a lot of us, not saying I'm not possibly missing something... but at this point I'm one of those end users that Evolv likes and given those tips of yours in the previous post (how to use), its almost just a "point and shoot" type of device.
I'm one that absolutely doesn't (yet) glow or look for hot spots.
I just wrapped my 4th coil and I actually feel like the Ni200 (30g) is a bit easier to trap on to the screw-head posts compared to thicker K wire because its thinner for one and because it's less springy it stays in place once you bend it around the screw head post and screw it down.
Wrapping micro's is like second nature to a lot of us, not saying I'm not possibly missing something... but at this point I'm one of those end users that Evolv likes and given those tips of yours in the previous post (how to use), its almost just a "point and shoot" type of device.
You can't OUTPUT a high wattage because of the temperature limit... The wattage is what CONTROLS the temperature... Yes you can SET a higher wattage, but it doesn't magically output that high wattage but mystically manage to keep the temperature low... Remember the temperature is just a limit... It won't allow the coil to reach a temperature above that setting regardless of the wattage... It does this by CHANGING the wattage...
I leave mine set for 460 degrees. My rayon has a MUCH higher charring point than that, but even if I wick with cotton, the cotton I use doesn't brown until 470-480...
As for wattage? Set it to the max... 40W... I have it locked at 40 and haven't touched it.... Why? Because you don't have to! That's the whole point of this... Yes it can put 40W out.... but it will regulate down as low as it needs to be to maintain whatever temperature I've set. The ONLY time you should have to worry about wattage is if you are getting too much vapor. If it's kicking out more than you want, then lower the wattage until it only puts out the amount of vapor you are happy with.
Remember... Just as VW mods "took away" the need to worry about setting voltage... This basically "takes away" the need to worry about setting wattage...
That's all for now...
In a nutshell!
Thanks, Rusirius! Clear and concise.
I think that a lot of us were somewhat confused by Brandon's own explanations in Phil's video; he said that somehow wattage and temperature are two different things and are controlled separately; "you're controlling two different things." The temperature limit protects the taste of the juice, while wattage still controls the same thing, which is vapor volume. "You say I don't want to go above this temperature but I still want this much wattage."
That left me scratching my head, I have to admit....
BTW, Brandon said that one of his beta testers reported yellowing of (dry) organic cotton at 420 degrees, charring at 460. Pretty close to what you've found.
How Ukeman? Won't it be 'either or 'or'?
I mean if you set the Temp ~ won't the DNA40 board 'adjust' the output wattage to maintain that Temp (ever so varyingly)? Just like when you set the 'wattage' on DNA30 it adjusts its voltage output.
Which means we can either set it to Temp or to Wattage, never both together, b'coz when one's constant - the other is varying, right?
Ps.: I don't own a DNA40 device, it is thus just my inexperienced thoughts. This post is more towards subscribing to another of R-U-Serious's threads
rusirius, a trick I use to "work harden" copper wire is to clamp one end and chuck the other end in a variable speed drill. Spin the wire until you hit the "temper" you want. I can get copper house wire, 14 gauge, to the point where it is springy enough to make a mobile antenna about three feet long doing that. I'll bet it'll work with Ni200 as well.
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It will-and it won't. It's complicated. You set both the temperature and the wattage, and then the chipset does its magic...
See Rusiruis's post #23 above...
When running in temperature protection mode, think of both the wattage and temperature as "maximum" values...How Ukeman? Won't it be 'either or 'or'?
I mean if you set the Temp ~ won't the DNA40 board 'adjust' the output wattage to maintain that Temp (ever so varyingly)? Just like when you set the 'wattage' on DNA30 it adjusts its voltage output.
Which means we can either set it to Temp or to Wattage, never both together, b'coz when one's constant - the other is varying, right?
Ps.: I don't own a DNA40 device, it is thus just my inexperienced thoughts. This post is more towards subscribing to another of R-U-Serious's threads
So if my temp is 450 and I run large coils with 1 watt it will max at 1 watt and never hit anywhere near 450. On the other hand if I crank it to 40 watts it will hit 450 then back the wattage down to never exceed 450. It will always try to put out the maximum wattage you've set, but only as long as the temp of the coil doesn't exceed the temp you've set.
That make more sense?
Welp. Just did this. It works :O
THANK YOU GOOD SIR!!
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Glad it worked for you, Kiwi! Kind of thought it might, now I know what to do when I get a DNA40!
OP, you have a board with the screen glitch and if it's already siliconed then there is no option but to replace it. There are a small number that have the issue even with silicone applied. Anything currently shipping from Evolv has the issue eliminated both by physical design and programming.
OP and others, some are finding success with twisting small diameter wires together (e.g. 34 ga) which also makes for an easier handling wire.
OP and others, some are finding success with twisting small diameter wires together (e.g. 34 ga) which also makes for an easier handling wire.
So I picked up a vapor flask that just got into a vendor today. Plzzzz tell me the chips are not glitchy
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One of the beta testers? posted that you could harden the Ni 200 wire by pulling it through the jaws of nylon pliers. I just gave it a try, pulling some 32 gauge through 30 times. It definitely hardens the wire to a noticeable degree but the wire is still softer than Kanthal. You can tell that the wire is getting harder as it will start to coil on its own rather than remaining straight after a pull.
This Ulbrich Ni200 datasheet makes me think that being quite conservative in using heat for naked Ni 200 might be a good idea. Losing ductility without gaining tempering doesn't seem like a great trade-off. I'm guessing that pulling the wire through cloth or nylon pliers simulates cold tempering?
Nickel 200 is not recommended for service above 600°F (316°C) because long-time exposures in the 800°F to 1200°F range result in precipitation of a carbon containing phase and loss of ductility.
...
Properties: Tempered
Nickel 200 can be cold rolled to various tempers. Contact Ulbrich Technical Service for additional information
...
Heat Treatment
Nickel 200 is non hardenable by heat treatment.
Thanks to everyone who is sharing their DNA40 experiences. It makes the early adopter road considerably less rocky. I'm very much looking forward to putting all the tips into practice when my rDNA40 finally ships.
This Ulbrich Ni200 datasheet makes me think that being quite conservative in using heat for naked Ni 200 might be a good idea. Losing ductility without gaining tempering doesn't seem like a great trade-off. I'm guessing that pulling the wire through cloth or nylon pliers simulates cold tempering?
Nickel 200 is not recommended for service above 600°F (316°C) because long-time exposures in the 800°F to 1200°F range result in precipitation of a carbon containing phase and loss of ductility.
...
Properties: Tempered
Nickel 200 can be cold rolled to various tempers. Contact Ulbrich Technical Service for additional information
...
Heat Treatment
Nickel 200 is non hardenable by heat treatment.
Thanks to everyone who is sharing their DNA40 experiences. It makes the early adopter road considerably less rocky. I'm very much looking forward to putting all the tips into practice when my rDNA40 finally ships.
So I picked up a vapor flask that just got into a vendor today. Plzzzz tell me the chips are not glitchy
did you try using it? vapor flask does provide good service in the event of any issues.
"Picked up" was a terrible choice of word. Ordered one and its shipping out tmr. I'll get it by Monday latest so I'll check it out then. GOnna hafta re-read the conditions to see if I can replicate it. Welp
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