My Views On High End E Liquid, So Far

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rabernet

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I diy and have no interest in vaping crap juice from ANY vendor who overcharges....including Ahlusion.

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Excellent! DIY works for you, and Ahlusion works for me. We each have our own measures for value. For you, it's in DIY. For me, it's Ahlusion's "crap" juices. We both are happy! In the end, that's all that matters. Have an awesome day!

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rabernet

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I will take Kurt's word for it over your beloved vendor any day.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sOBDm8tSUEU

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A two hour long YouTube video is your source? I was hoping for a more credible scientific source. The fact you had to preface it with taking some guy's word for it tells me you already recognized that wasn't truly a source.

Since I'm not going to sit through 2 hours, please let me know the time stamp where they discuss this specifically so I can jump to it.

Thanks!

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HowlinMadMurphy

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I generally tend to agree with the sentiment, I haven't found that the "high end" liquid is drastically better than the less expensive brands I have tried. Unfortunately I just cannot find anything to replace my ADV, Mr E Liquids 'Grey Matter', which is running me $18/30ml but I suspect this has less to do with the "quality" and more to do with the fact that I just haven't found anything that has a similar taste profile for a significantly lower price. I swear I run out of this stuff and a day later I'm fantasizing about smoking a cigarette because nothing else really does it for me. It's kinda bumming me out, because I love trying new flavors and brands but I always find myself forgoing a new order to run up to the vape shop to pick up a bottle.
 

hairball

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A two hour long YouTube video is your source? I was hoping for a more credible scientific source. The fact you had to preface it with taking some guy's word for it tells me you already recognized that wasn't truly a source.

Since I'm not going to sit through 2 hours, please let me know the time stamp where they discuss this specifically so I can jump to it.

Thanks!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk.

Why don't you watch it...you might learn some stuff.
 

Desertfremen

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I DIY and an interesting concept is to buy the flavor mixes from the e-juice makers.

Killer juice, (and others), offer this service. IMO, this is better than already mixed e-juices has you can mix to your taste and still enjoy your favorite flavors at a fraction of the cost.

As with expensive juices those descriptives can be appled to Killer Juice flavors: intricate, smooth, complex, unique, unaldulterated, natural, ....etc. ( as this is only a mostly subjective opinion).

The quality that is different and not too common is 'Affordable', ( and this is fact not an opinion).

Affordable is still an opinion relative to the person saying it. To me a vaping budget of $100/mo is more than affordable; I can buy more than enough of my so called over priced liquid for well under that. Hell, my smoking budget used to be $300/month! It's probably even more now (eta for clarification: more now to smoke cigs), and I've been vaping for nearly five years! I'm still banking money at this point even including equipment. Has anyone been able to clone any of the juice I like? Nowhere close, not even I. I was spending about $75/mo in flavouring and alot of personal time trying to clone it for about 6 mos. For a few dollars more I can have what I want and the time experimenting back. Win, win, and win!

All of this discussion is subjective and relative. There is no right or wrong, it is preference and what one is willing and capable to pay for convenience and perceived quality.


I generally tend to agree with the sentiment, I haven't found that the "high end" liquid is drastically better than the less expensive brands I have tried. Unfortunately I just cannot find anything to replace my ADV, Mr E Liquids 'Grey Matter', which is running me $18/30ml but I suspect this has less to do with the "quality" and more to do with the fact that I just haven't found anything that has a similar taste profile for a significantly lower price. I swear I run out of this stuff and a day later I'm fantasizing about smoking a cigarette because nothing else really does it for me. It's kinda bumming me out, because I love trying new flavors and brands but I always find myself forgoing a new order to run up to the vape shop to pick up a bottle.

This has alot to do with this as well. After nearly 5 years of vaping, having vaped some really cheap stuff, making my own, and trying more expensive stuff, there are unique flavours I have found that just aren't cloned. It seems to happen more often with premium/gourmet brands than your average run of the mill types of juice. Attempts to clone them by me and many others have fallen short. I'd worry more about keeping yourself from going back to cigs right now and keeping yourself happy at the early stage in your journey. When I first started vaping I pretty much kept my vaping budget about the same as cigs for a while because not smoking cigarettes was more important to me than the money at the time. Later on you will reap the benefits and the savings of vaping. For now just concentrate on you because no one will take care of yourself better than you!
 

DaveP

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If it tastes good, vape it. I branch out here and there and order some of the $20 plus high end juices just to see what all the hype is about. I usually end up going back to my old faithful suppliers who produce Dekang juices and house juices for under $15 for 50ml. I did that this week.

I'd pay more for an outstanding juice, but I find that my tastes don't necessarily match the preferences of most people who rave about the latest juice. It may be good, but not for a dollar or more for a milliliter.
 

Tangaroav

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A two hour long YouTube video is your source? I was hoping for a more credible scientific source. The fact you had to preface it with taking some guy's word for it tells me you already recognized that wasn't truly a source.

Since I'm not going to sit through 2 hours, please let me know the time stamp where they discuss this specifically so I can jump to it.

Thanks!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk.

The warning about natural organic flavoring that Doc. Kurt gives vapers is at the start of the last 33% of the video. Sorry I can not pinpoint it better.

Doc. Kurt mentions the potential irreversible damage to your lungs if using natural organic flavoring. He strongly advises to only use artificial flavoring when vaping. It is REALLY an important information for vapers and with all due respect, well worth your time to listen to it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sOBDm8tSUEU

That 'show' is hosted by the Vaping greek, an authority on vaping in general
 
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Thundernoggin

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The warning about natural organic flavoring that Doc. Kurt gives vapers is at the start of the last 33% of the video. Sorry I can not pinpoint it better.

Doc. Kurt mentions the potential irreversible damage to your lungs if using natural organic flavoring. He strongly advises to only use artificial flavoring when vaping. It is REALLY an important information for vapers and with all due respect, well worth your time to listen to it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sOBDm8tSUEU

That 'show' is hosted by the Vaping greek, an authority on vaping in general

I'm going to check this out later. I've never DIYed and doubt I will start, not enough hours in the day, I'm always at work. Although I've found my taste buds prefer some of the higher end vendors but whatever works to keep someone off cigs is fine by me. One of things I like personally about Ahlusion is their independent testing to keep diacetyl out of the juice. Has DIY gotten harder since the study by Dr. F?
 
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rabernet

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The warning about natural organic flavoring that Doc. Kurt gives vapers is at the start of the last 33% of the video. Sorry I can not pinpoint it better.

Doc. Kurt mentions the potential irreversible damage to your lungs if using natural organic flavoring. He strongly advises to only use artificial flavoring when vaping. It is REALLY an important information for vapers and with all due respect, well worth your time to listen to it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sOBDm8tSUEU

That 'show' is hosted by the Vaping greek, an authority on vaping in general

Thanks. May have mis-spoken about Ahlusion naturally extracting. Went on their site to read more from their FAQ's.

DO YOU HAVE ORGANIC E-LIQUIDS?

Not at this time, and anyone claiming to have organic e-liquids is either misinformed or using the "organic" label falsely. There are organic flavors (extracts, and concentrates) yes, but once you introduce Nicotine or Propylene Glycol, it ceases to be "organic". Sadly, most of the e-liquids produced elsewhere are mixed out of flavorings that also do not fall under the "organic" category; simply adding 100% VG to a product listing, does not make it organic.



At most, E-Liquids can be "Organically Flavored", but not be 100% organic.



The only way any e-liquid or food item meant for commercial distribution may have an organic label, is when said item is produced, manufactured and handled using organic means defined by certifying bodies such as the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) under its Organic Food Products Act. Since Ahlusion, LLC (or any other "vendor" out there) has not been certified to date, there simply are no organic e-liquids and using the "organic" label would be a misappropriation of the term.


WHICH FLAVORS OR CONCENTRATES ARE UNIQUE TO AHLUSION?

Our Sasparilla - (used in W & A Sasparilla), our ginger and cardamom based liquids (Masala Chai), our fruit flavors (Orange, Strawberry, Blueberry, Banana, Cantaloupe, and Watermelon variants) Coffees and soon Cocoa's (our Chocolate flavors).

Our Cola's are actually a rooty/authentic flavor mix of several spices, as is our Chai flavor - both of which contain cardamom and ginger extracts. Some of these formulas have been used in many variations by other popular flavor manufacturers and e-liquid vendors.

ARE ALL YOUR CONCENTRATES PRODUCED IN-HOUSE?

Over 80% of our base flavors are designed in house (see "Which flavors or concentrates are unique to Ahlusion?"). As we currently only have the capability to use some of the processes listed above in small quantities (+/- 1/3 gallon per month per flavor), the bulk of our flavors are actually manufacturered by two dedicated US based flavor manufacturers.

We routinely sample flavors already out on the market to improve or formulate our own to better suit our e-liquid flavoring bases.

Once we have created a flavor we like, it is either outsourced to our U.S. facility that can produce our required quantities in larger batches or it is purchased from other trusted companies that follow our requirements for safety, flavor extraction and quality.

Another fact worth mentioning is that some of our concentrates (or formulas) are subsequently used by some of the flavor manufacturers!

If and when we select flavors not made in-house, they have to conform to our standards; that is, there may be absolutely no trace of artificial coloring, or additives and chemicals!

INGREDIENTS

We strive to keep our mixes as clean, and clear as possible. Our e-liquids do not contain artificial colors, gum acacia, xantham gum, Citric Acid (CAS: 77-92-9), Diacetyl (CAS: 431-03-8), Acetoin (CAS: 513-86-0), Acetyl Propionyl (CAS: 600-14-6) , or Caffeine (CAS: 58-08-2).


COMMON INGREDIENTS

Flavorings: Certified Organic, Natural, and/or Artificial. All flavorings, whether created by Ahlusion or not are routinely tested and certified by an outside laboratory for chemical analysis. All flavorings used by Ahlusion are FDA approved, although not specifically for inhalation; however, through testing we are able to prevent commonly known harmful components (such as Diacetyl) from entering our production stream.

Nicotine, Propylene Glycol, and Vegetable Glycerine: We source for the highest quality, cleanest, clearest, and most tasteless nicotine to use in our mixes. Our nicotine is 99.6% pure, meets EU 6.0 Medical Grade Standards, is clean, clear, and potent. Our Propylene Glycol (PG) is USP, food grade, and Kosher. Our Vegetable Glycerin (VG) is USP, food grade, and Kosher.

Organic Ethyl Alcohol: Organic Ethyl Alcohol where listed in ingredients constitutes less than 1% of total volume. The use of Organic Ethyl Alcohol based flavorings will eventually be phased out by the later part of 2014.


VG/PG MIXES

ALL VG Blends: Distilled Water, USP grade Vegetable Glycerin, Flavorings, Ethyl Alcohol, and Nicotine.

VG/PG Mixed Blends: Distilled Water, USP grade Vegetable Glycerin, USP grade Propylene Glycol, Flavorings, Ethyl Alcohol, and Nicotine. We are generally able to go up to a 30/70 VG/PG mix on most e-liquids, but are currently unable to mix at higher PG levels as most of our flavorings are VG based. In the future and as we make advances in our flavoring production, we will be able to use pure, undiluted flavorings in our e-liquids. This will allow for more control over our resulting VG/PG mixes.

PG/VG Mix notes: Higher PG mixes tend to produce less vapor, but more flavor and an increased throat hit. Higher VG mixes produce more vapor, but tend to mute flavors and throat hit. Our common recommendation is to have an even VG/PG mix (50/50) with some exceptions. We base our recommendations on using Low Resistance atomizers (1.5 - 1.8 ohm) and standard 3.7v devices (not including ecig kits such as eGo's, and 510s). Contact us if you have any questions or would like to fine tune your recommendations.

Propylene Glycol Allergies: A few individuals have shown sensitivity to PG. Our recommendation is to not use any of our products until you have consulted with your medical provider. We cannot be responsible for any reactions any individual may have.


TOBACCO BLENDS

Aromatic Tobacco Blends (No longer produced/sold): Previously made in house, extracted through various methods from additive free natural or certified organic tobacco. The strength of the finished flavoring is slightly different for each batch, so there may be slight variations to the strength of the finished product. Every recipe is tested and adjusted for each batch to make it as close to the original control as possible. Our aromatic blends are no longer being produced or sold.

Non Aromatic Blends: As the name implies, these do not contain any tobacco extracts, just tobacco flavoring.


ABOUT OUR NICOTINE

Our main supplier for L-Nicotine is Alchem International, a manufacturer we trust for their remarkable accuracy and batch testing of their products. Alchem International's nicotine quality exceeds USP standards. Every new batch we receive is again tested either through GC/MS and acid/base titration when GC/MS is not available.

BOTTLING AND LABELING

Each and every bottle that leaves our mixing area has a batch and/or control number on the label. All data (ingredients/components -including their individual batch numbers-, date/time mixed, lab technician's name) is contained within this batch number. The batch number for custom e-liquids is generally the same as the order number. This data is preserved for historical purposes and quality control. All bottles are sealed and packaged before shipping.

TESTING AND RESULTS

This has always been an important aspect for Ahlusion LLC, it has also been the most costly factor in our e-liquids production cycle. As new data becomes available from various sources, composition testing and methods are constantly adjusted. Also, to satisfy consumer and authority demands for product safety, we will be posting individual reports and certifications to back up claims made by Ahlusion LLC (for instance to be DA/AP free).

In any case, Ahlusion works for ME, and to ME they are a great value for the depth and breadth of flavor that they offer. With 15% off feedback coupons sent out within 15 days of order, that can be stacked with random weekly (sometimes daily) flash sales that are always announced on their thread from 15% to 40% off, most of my purchases are well under $.35 a mil.

I honestly only care that each of us stays off cigarettes and vapes what THEY enjoy.
 

Tangaroav

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Thanks for posting the specs of this vendor. The following statement reinforces a caveat emptor:

COMMON INGREDIENTS

Flavorings: Certified Organic, Natural, and/or Artificial. All flavorings, whether created by Ahlusion or not are routinely tested and certified by an outside laboratory for chemical analysis. All flavorings used by Ahlusion are FDA approved, although not specifically for inhalation; however, through testing we are able to prevent commonly known harmful components (such as Diacetyl) from entering our production stream.


I am not sure what this really means in term of health risks as reported by Dr. Kur Kristler. I need to review that video again and study the matter further for my own DIY.

FYI the warnings about natural organic flavors comes at 1:36:00 or shortly afterward in the video, or Doc Kurt Kristler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOBDm8tSUEU&app=desktop
 
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krisjay

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This thread was never intended to be a bash on any liquid in particular. If someone pays alot for a juice and it taste good to them, then that is great, if someone pays very little for juice and it taste great to them, that again is great. Somehow this thread got off course, it was supposed to be just an opinion that SO FAR, I haven't found any high price juice that has justified the cost, and let me clarify a little bit, I don't consider Nicoticket an overpriced juice, maybe that will help explain the price range Im talking about, for me Nicoticket is priced fairly for what you get. Please don't use this thread as a place to bash any juice in particular, or to bash anyone's opinion about the juice they like, it's just a generality that the uber high priced stuff hasn't thrilled me in a price to satisfaction basis. As in all things your milage may vary, and that is ok.
 
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