Hi Seabrook, sorry I didn’t reply sooner but I haven’t had the time (or mental energy!) until now.
As I said earlier, I do not believe that there is intentional deception going on necessarily. Although, if I were a vendor and I was carrying the highest grade available of a given product, I would want people to know it and would say it explicitly.
Well he may buy USP grade PG and VG, but if he repackages it it then is considered feed grade, unless he follows certain procedures and tests.
Food Chemicals Codex
Thanks for the link spaky, and that’s true, he may.
Re the link: following FCC guidelines does not make something USP, and I think you may have hit on what many vendors actually
mean when they say their products are USP, not understanding this distinction fully. It may be an issue of ignorance, compounded by the fact that these FCC guidelines are referenced on the USP site:
“What is the FCC? The FCC is a compendium of internationally recognized standards for the purity and identity of food ingredients... USP acquired the FCC from the Institute of Medicine in 2006 with the goal of providing full support for the continuing revision and update of the compendium... USP has instituted a timely, transparent revision process... The FCC is now published every two years in print and online formats and is offered as a subscription that includes a main edition and supplements.”
The FCC is not a “grade,” is not verified, and following its “standards for the purity and identity of food ingredients” is not the same as being USP. The fact that USP owns the compendium, I think, is a great source of confusion and the ambiguity among sellers.
This section of the site addresses USP [United States Pharmacopeia]:
USP Verified and makes no reference whatsoever to the FCC or food/feed grade.
I don't think you have anything to worry about getting it. When I first started making my own juice I ordered some PG that didn't have the USP grade label. I called up the company that packaged it and they told me that they order USP grade stuff and repackage it and can't label it USP grade. I used it with no problems. To be honest most of the PG and VG that is sold by vendors on here probably shouldn't be labeled USP like they are due to this fact. Now I'm not trying to accuse vendors of being intentionally dishonest, just that they probably don't know that by repackaging this stuff, unless procedures are followed and tests done, it no longer is USP grade.
Spaky, what vendor? I’m hoping to have some options for DIY. Re repackaging: I’m okay with repackaged USP stuff as long as it really was USP to begin with and not a misunderstanding of what USP is and what they actually have, and repackaging
that.
Just a side note: because USP has a higher standard, it includes food grade: everything that is USP is definitely also food grade, but NOT the other way around. Like if something is a butterfly, it is definitely an insect. But if something is an insect, it is not necessarily a butterfly (it could be a flea!).
There are two posts linked below that have covered this ground better, and after the first time I read the one from Markarich159, I thought I understood it. I went out and bought Wilton Glycerin, used for smoothing cake icing, and thought it fit in with what I read. I was wrong. It is not USP, it is food grade or, as spaky put it [technically the correct term I believe], feed grade. After I realized this, I used the rest of it [I am okay!], and recently had the pharmacist at a Walgreens order me a 6 oz bottle of Glycerin USP from Humco. So, point is, it’s confusing. And I buy flavoring from Capella, and other stuff from other sellers, KNOWING that I might not be getting true USP grade ingredients.
I have not made the direct inquiries to vendors needed to get clarification on this issue (when I have time...!). From what they say on their websites, most vendors of flavoring and e-liquid are not explicit about using the highest available grade of VG & PG bases.
One example that does state this is VaporFlow’s American Revoluton e-Liquid
E-Liquid - American Revoluton - VaporFlow . I have spoken to Jason from VaperFlow, who [I believe he said] is a pharmacist, and confirmed USP grade in his products. From their site: “It is made in the USA using the highest grade of USP L-Nicotine available on the market. American Revolution is a proprietary blend of USP grade PG, glycerin, nicotine, and FDA-approved natural and artificial flavorings.”
Another example: some product descriptions from Totally Wicked / Decadent Vapors seem to indicate they are using the British equivalent of USP pharmaceutical grade bases.
These 2 posts are extremely helpful and represent about 99% of my sum total knowledge about PG, VG, and USP:
From basic_atheist, link:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...omg-wilton-glycerin-shizit-3.html#post1251793
VG/PG USP by Markarich159, Pharmacist, link:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-labeling-purity-please-read.html#post787766
If you do get the chance to clarify this with Capella, one question would be how the original container of, say, VG is labeled EXACTLY. If it says “Glycerin USP,” exactly like that (as described in Markarich159’s post), that would be reassuring.
...Our PG and VG is USP grade suitable for food applications.
-tom
See, I wonder about “suitable for food applications” as a qualifier. If it is USP, it is suitable for a higher standard than there is for food, and we’re not eating.
Thank you for at least raising the question with Capella. When I get around to talking to more vendors about this, I’ll let you know what I find if you want...
Villager
I love that one but I add a little Vanilla Custard and Double Chocolate to pump up the flavor.
Wish I were 20 again, LOL. I'm gonna yell at my neighbor through the window to even bring my mail in to me. And his day off at the harbor is Monday, so I can at least drive over there if he can walk in and pick up my order for me.
