Need advice from experienced 14500 users.

[Laszlo]

I have to disagree to a certain extent. I think its possble that so many battery changes can be made with the 14500 battery even if the batteries are in good shape. I use the IMR 18650 battery and I change them out 3 or 4 times a day so its possible that someone might change 14500s 8-10 times a day. I vape about 3 to 4 mls a day. Some people like the vape warm and as the battery depletes its voltage drops off causing the wattage (heat) to the atomizer to drop off. This results in the cooler vape thus a change to a freshly charged battery. This results in that satisfying hit that the new battery delivers. Some people don't seem to mind the drop off in wattage but some people seem particularly sensitive to it.

ltrainer pretty much nailed it.

I bought two brand new AW 14500, they could've been too old or not stored properly... I never used 14500 before, so I thought such a short life is "normal". I'm using Pila IBC charger and batteries come off charged @4.2V. When I feel decreased performance my batteries are usually at 3.6, sometimes 3.7V. I probably am one of those sensitive people for drop off in wattage - I was hi-volt vaping Provari for more than a year and as you all know the battery hit is the same regardless of voltage until it reaches cut-off (battery low 3.5V) threshold. Not so with unregulated REO, the hit with the freshly charged battery is far stronger and then slowly deteriorates.

I actually wanted to start a new thread on this (mini +14500 batts) topic. How you experienced reonauts handle the battery rotation? Use two and keep them charging one at the time and swapping them till they are run to ground and then buy new pair?
Or you have more and keep regularly rotating them, which probably would require some sort of identification mark for each battery?
Or perhaps rotate one pair for week, then give it a break and use another pair following week? That's sounds like the way I should be going.

Sound advice would be much appreciated. (I hope I'm not hijacking this thread though, if so new thread can be started)

 

[FeistyAlice]

ltrainer pretty much nailed it.

I bought two brand new AW 14500, they could've been too old or not stored properly... I never used 14500 before, so I thought such a short life is "normal". I'm using Pila IBC charger and batteries come off charged @4.2V. When I feel decreased performance my batteries are usually at 3.6, sometimes 3.7V. I probably am one of those sensitive people for drop off in wattage - I was vaping Provari for more than a year and as you all know the battery hit is the same regardless of voltage until it reaches cut-off (battery low 3.5V) threshold. Not so with unregulated REO, the hit with the freshly charged battery is far stronger and then slowly deteriorates.

I actually wanted to start a new thread on this (mini +14500 batts) topic. How you experienced reonauts handle the battery rotation? Use two and keep them charging one at the time and swapping them till they are run to ground and then buy new pair?
Or you have more and keep regularly rotating them, which probably would require some sort of identification mark for each battery?
Or perhaps rotate one pair for week, then give it a break and use another pair following week? That's sounds like the way I should be going.

Sound advice would be much appreciated. (I hope I'm not hijacking this thread though, if so new thread can be started)

I have a plastic case that I store them in, 14500 and 18490, on their sides, in a channel that is just the right fit for them. We, DH and I, take from the front, and put newly charged ones in the back as they are charged. I do mark them with date. DH loses one or two, a month, usually leaving them in the Hotel or Rental cars, So every few months I buy 3-4 new ones. He flys out of town every week for a few days. I've started marking the newly purchased ones, with metalic marker, silver for the last purchase and gold for the purchase I'm making this week. He always takes the newest so he doesn't have to use the charger. He's "misplaced" two chargers in the past year.

When we change out batteries, and are going to be here, we put them directly on the charger. Because we only vape them down to about 3.7 or so, they charge back up pretty fast. If we aren't going to be here we lay them crosswise on the chargers to remind us to charge them when one or both of us get back in.

If we are both gone while batteries are charging the last person to leave unplugs the charger. Li-ion batteries don't suffer from "memory effect" so it doesn't mess up the charging if you interrupt it and start it back up again. Also, it's good to charge them before they run too far down. It is supposed to help with longevity.

A few of mine are almost a year old. I have only had to retire one AW IMR to recycle. It was a year old and, although it did charge up to 4.2 volts, it drained, with use faster than we like. After a while most people will learn when the voltage drops below what they like for their best vape and take them out to charge without even needing to check the voltage. This also applies to Li-ions as they age. The voltage drops faster as they get older.

One, but not the only guage of "life" of the battery is based on number of charge/use cycles. A Lithium chemistry battery that is stored properly and topped up regularly, and not allowed to get drained to low, should, in theory, last much longer than one that is used and charged frequently.

By using the very simple system we use all of the batteries have about equal use/charge cycles.

Alice

{edit} For the two of us 14 is a good number. He usually takes six with him out of town, in addition to fresh one in his Mini, and usually comes home with at least two that are not used. (Last week he took eight and I don't know why, but I had five here.) He doesn't do much vaping, during the day, while at work. He does carry a charger just in case, like if a flight is cancelled or he has to work late and has to take a flight out the next day.

 

[Laszlo]

Thanks Alice for comprehensive report. Seems like you guys got it well sorted.

I used to have a TrustFire TR-001 charger, good unit. As far as I know this charger will maintain trickle charge after battery is charged. Reading a few articles about Li-ions the overcharge is actually the worst thing that can happen to these batteries and evidence suggests that will shorten battery life. I did leave some of the 18490's in charger overnight quite often (by accident) and after 8 months they have been shot. So to mitigate this I invested in Pila IBC unit which shuts charging at 4.2V.

I also do have the plastic box lined with cutout foam system going - only charged batteries go in there. I have 4 15270's in rotation and it is always the leftmost one in position that goes in mod, move rest of them to the left and freshly charged battery goes to the right empty position. Works good so far.

 

[fishface]

the pila charger is a great charger it will stop the charge when its done
i think most problems with short battery life is overcharging them with cheap chargers
as far as battery rotation and marking them, I dont worry about it.
i buy them use them for a while throw out underperforming ones buy new ones
next year there is always newer better batteries to buy

 

[Mudflap]

I don't own a Mini nor any 14500 battery mods, but in my humble opinion, the 14500 IMR is best suited for the "light vaper."

I swap my 18650's two or three times a day and they're usually around 3.9 volts when I'm not longer getting the umph I want.

That's why I'm excited about the VV Reos. Regulated power set where I like it and longer battery life between charges. Just the excuse I need to buy more Reos!

 

[six]

I've been pretty surprised by how well my 14500s hold up. I start my work days with a fresh battery and bring one spare with me that gets swapped in sometime after lunch. - I usually use a 1.8 ohm boge carto so with the 3 ml bottle and a full carto in the morning plus the spare battery, I'm good for close to ten hours.

Mudflaps statement about lack of "umph" after a while can be true. In fact, that's why I switched to 1.8 ohm cartos from 2.0 ohm. They start out a little on the warm side for my preferences, but provide a little better "umph" a little longer. I still have to take increasingly longer drags as the battery drains to get what I want in comparison to my mods with bigger batts, but the 14500s in my mini work better than I expected for a single battery mod.

 

[JC Okie]

I keep about 8 in rotation, and although I *sorta* try to keep them as organized as Alice does )), I usually get a little sloppy and just grab any 14500 that I know has been charged. I have a few that I carry in a little case in my purse that don't get that much use or re-charging because I usually leave the house with a fresh battery and sometimes don't need to change it out until I'm back home....mainly because I usually carry three REOs with me and rotate the whole REO (because they each hold a different juice and I like variety) instead of changing out the batteries. Then I also have big REOs (18650s) and medium REOs (18490s), so it's just a crapshoot of when I'll need what battery. I carry spares of all of them....just so it won't matter which REOs I end up leaving home with. My purse is a mini vape shop. I'm just a little loosy-goosy about the whole thing. I have a big purse...and I don't leave home very often for long enough to get nervous about it....especially since I usually have at least 3 REOs with me at all times. Ha. After reading back over this, I'm sure it's absolutely no help at all.

Jan

 

[zer0ith]

So in relation to the 14500 battery's how does the Ultrafire WF-188 charger stack up? Is it considered a "cheap" charger?

I use to just leave my battery in overnight to ensure a fresh one in the morning, but have been advised by a couple people on here otherwise.

As for my usage with them I work evenings so I start with 1 battery in the morning. 2 hours before work I swap and charge. When at work I use the same one, when I get home I swap and charge. I usually keep 1-2 extra battery's on me just in case I don't come directly home after work.

 

[mwa102464]

I handle it by reaching into one of the 2-5gal buckets I have of Assorted Batts and grab a handful of whichever I'm going to be using that day, throw them on the charger that night and reach into my bucket tomorrow morning again ;-) I also swap them out when they drop under 3.9-3.8V I can just about know exactly by the vape I get I've been at it long enough.

 

[Big Hitter]

I don't own a Mini nor any 14500 battery mods, but in my humble opinion, the 14500 IMR is best suited for the "light vaper."

I swap my 18650's two or three times a day and they're usually around 3.9 volts when I'm not longer getting the umph I want.

That's why I'm excited about the VV Reos. Regulated power set where I like it and longer battery life between charges. Just the excuse I need to buy more Reos!

Agree 100% I find I'm a "3.9v swapper" as well

I also do not have any 14500 mods (Anymore) You start swapping 14500 batts at 3.9 volts you better carry a bag of them around.

Can't wait for the VV REO ...... set it and forget it !

 

[FeistyAlice]

So in relation to the 14500 battery's how does the Ultrafire WF-188 charger stack up? Is it considered a "cheap" charger?

I use to just leave my battery in overnight to ensure a fresh one in the morning, but have been advised by a couple people on here otherwise.

As for my usage with them I work evenings so I start with 1 battery in the morning. 2 hours before work I swap and charge. When at work I use the same one, when I get home I swap and charge. I usually keep 1-2 extra battery's on me just in case I don't come directly home after work.

We have the Wf-188 (on second one as they are pretty flimsily built - first one the internal tab that holds the spring broke) and a WF-139, that is at least 10 years old, and a couple of major cheapies, we got off eBay. I've never had the Wf-188 or the WF139 overcharge any of my AW IMRs even though I've left them on overnight or a whole day. I prefer to use the WF-188 as it has two rate of charge settings and I use the slower setting, less mAH. Slower charging is supposed to be better for the Lithium chemistry.

The 14500 usually charge up 2-3 times faster than the 18650s, with battery starting at ~3.7v. I'm not sure about the 18490 as I just started using them a few days ago.

BTW... In the case, I use for the 14xxx I, also, store the 18xxx but vertically, two rows and fill from right, on top row, and move them down to bottom row and use from right, bottom row. That's the only way they will fit in the small case. Very right side are two 1000 mAH, eGo batteries, that are rarely used, so I don't pay much attention to the order of those.

Short 3.7, 3.0v, and 5v batteries (long like the 18650s) are in another matching case, with same system.

Also, when two people are using the same batteries it does help to have a system. I'm OCD about only a few things and get pretty stressed when I can't account for all of them. The main things are my PV batteries, my M.A Hadley pottery, my Tervis Tumblers, flatware I've had since Mother started our collections when we were each teens, and kitchen knives and steak knives. Everything else I/we own we are more casual about. Those things eventually show up and I usually have multiples of those, including tools and hand power tools. Oh, yeah, I'm OCD about the Li-ion batteries for all my battery Power Tools and Gadgets. Those batteries cost a small fortune but are so worth it.

Feisty Alice

 

[fishface]

So in relation to the 14500 battery's how does the Ultrafire WF-188 charger stack up? Is it considered a "cheap" charger?

I use to just leave my battery in overnight to ensure a fresh one in the morning, but have been advised by a couple people on here otherwise.

As for my usage with them I work evenings so I start with 1 battery in the morning. 2 hours before work I swap and charge. When at work I use the same one, when I get home I swap and charge. I usually keep 1-2 extra battery's on me just in case I don't come directly home after work.

i dont own the wf-188 but from what i read the charger will stop charging when its complete
the chargers that worry me is the ones that just indicate when they are done , not stop the charging process

 

[washvap]

Well, no charger on the market completely stops charging the batts when they are done. Even the Pila but, speaking about the Pila. The Ultrafire W-188 has some similar features in that it trickle charges the battery after it's been done. Which basically means that it stops it from draining. It's not safe to leave any battery charging unattended but, it's better with a smart charger.

 

[Delilah718]

ltrainer pretty much nailed it.

I bought two brand new AW 14500, they could've been too old or not stored properly... I never used 14500 before, so I thought such a short life is "normal". I'm using Pila IBC charger and batteries come off charged @4.2V. When I feel decreased performance my batteries are usually at 3.6, sometimes 3.7V. I probably am one of those sensitive people for drop off in wattage - I was hi-volt vaping Provari for more than a year and as you all know the battery hit is the same regardless of voltage until it reaches cut-off (battery low 3.5V) threshold. Not so with unregulated REO, the hit with the freshly charged battery is far stronger and then slowly deteriorates.

I actually wanted to start a new thread on this (mini +14500 batts) topic. How you experienced reonauts handle the battery rotation? Use two and keep them charging one at the time and swapping them till they are run to ground and then buy new pair?
Or you have more and keep regularly rotating them, which probably would require some sort of identification mark for each battery?
Or perhaps rotate one pair for week, then give it a break and use another pair following week? That's sounds like the way I should be going.

Sound advice would be much appreciated. (I hope I'm not hijacking this thread though, if so new thread can be started)

I have 4 AW IMR 14500s in rotation, it will be a year in March. They are going and going - I use one for about three hours and then switch. When I vape, I keep going and going so I am sure I deplete the energy a lot sooner than those who vape less. I have a little battery case that holds four -- if I am going out for a little while I might take one, if longer, I'll take the case.

I've been using my Grand more frequently than my mini's but I switched to the mini this week -- and I've fallen in love with it all over again It's so compact, and coupled with my hh357, it's giving me a wholloping vape

 

[fishface]

Well, no charger on the market completely stops charging the batts when they are done. Even the Pila but, speaking about the Pila. The Ultrafire W-188 has some similar features in that it trickle charges the battery after it's been done. Which basically means that it stops it from draining. It's not safe to leave any battery charging unattended but, it's better with a smart charger.

the pila goes into standby mode.
it says on the specs standby/trickle charge
but it does not trickle charge
i dont know about the ultrafire charger did not research much.
trickle charging is bad for this type of battery chemistry

 

[Laszlo]

The Pila chargers were discussed at length at one massive thread on LED Torches forums. There was guy who I think was actual Pila designer and he was answering a lot of questions - he had firmly confirmed that even though the Pila manual says that it trickle charges after full charge it does not and the charging bay is actually disconnected (green led indicator on).

I don't understand why even el cheapo chargers cannot manage that. It requires only one opamp or a transistor and couple of resistors all worth less than $5 to achieve disconnecting charge input when battery reaches 4.2V.

Thanks to all for replies. Much appreciated.