nemesis battery?

[filthyrich]

so I've been cig free since april and been using ego c twist and my busted vamo v2(the top fell off and now I have black electrical tape holding it on) and decided to up it to a mech. so I got a nemesis and looking for batteries for it. I've read a lot of the stickies people have posted about batteries and safety.
I currently have 4 of the cgr18650ch from fasttech SKU: 1141101
after many hours of reading about batteries now im confused. I first thought that you needed unprotected batteries for the vamo and other vv/vw mods and protected batteries for mechanical mods. from what I've been reading you don't need protected batteries for a mechanical mod. you just have to make sure your under the max amp load of the battery. I mainly use my protank with a micro coil around 1.2-1.4ohms, since my batteries aren't made for sub ohm I haven't gone there yet. I have a kraken SKU: 1530400 and a pulse g SKU: 1522900 on order from fasttech. couldn't decied on which one so I got both. im not a cloud chaser, mainly after the flavor but it is nice to throw out a cloud. ill set one up for clouds and the other up for flavor.

my questions

so since there isn't a circuit board in the mech to tell it to cut off at the low voltage cutoff how will I know when to change the battery. and what harm will I do if I take it below the cutoff for low voltage.

can anyone give me a link to some batteries I should get, and give an explanation. I prefer higher mah batteries since I go through about 4-6ml of juice a day. im on a budget, hence I shop at lowtech. so the best battery for my buck would be nice,

 

[Revelene]

I use 2 AW IMR 18650 2000mah batteries a day. I just use them until I feel the vape start to drop off. The battery I use my only be 2000mah but it is a high drain and high quality battery that does last. I would recommend AW batteries for everything. I've had other batteries that were also high drain but a higher mah rating and never could get good performance out of them. There are a lot of fake/clones out there and I would NOT recommend buying a battery from fasttech. Kidney Puncher sells legit AW batteries in various sizes. With the AW IMR 18650 2000mah you can safely go as low as 0.5 Ohm in resistance. Not only do you want good batteries but you also want to consider getting a quality charger. I would definitely recommend an XTAR charger. Fasttech sells things cheap... but some things like batteries and chargers you do not want to go cheap on...

 

[Baditude]

At one time, protected li-ion batteries were recommended for mechanical mods. With the advent of modern battery technology, IMR and hybrid batteries are currently recommended instead because of their safer chemistry. -- http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

In the order of preference for safety:

1. Li-mn IMR safe chemistry batteries.
2. Hybrid safe chemistry batteries.
3. Good quality name-brand protected Li-ion batteries such as AW protected ICR batteries.
4. Branded protected Li-ion ICR batteries such as Trustfire, Surefire, & Ultrafire batteries.
5. The least-preferable option is a generic protected Li-ion ICR battery.
6. Unprotected rechargeable Li-ion ICR cells should not be used.
7. Standard cells (non-rechargeable) MUST NOT be used. (ie Ever Ready, Ray O Vac)

With a mechanical mod without a voltage regulating module (a Kick), vapor and general performance will gradually drop as the battery's voltage falls off. With experience you'll learn when to replace the battery by its drop in performance, but until then having a inline voltmeter or digital multimeter would be very useful to check the battery's voltage periodically as you use it. Voltage should not drop below 3.2 volts. Batteries should be removed around 3.4 volts to be recharged.

Any of the high quality, name brand 18650 IMR or hybrid batteries which have a 10 amp limit will suffice for the majority of applications. Regulated mods, and mechanical mods using a Kick or RBA/RDA must use a "high drain" battery, which the IMR and hybrid batteries happen to be. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/provape/334831-technical-why-high-drain-batteries.html

If using sub-ohm coils, my cut-off (and PBusardo's) is anything less than 0.8 ohms should use one of the higher Amp batteries for a wider margin of safety. These batteries have at least 20 Amps in reserve.

A large list of recommended IMR/hybrid batteries with their Amp limits is in the link below:

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected?

I recommend RTD Vapor and Orbtronic as reputable vendors for batteries & charger.

Side note: The NCR18650B 3400 mAh battery sold by Panasonic and Orbtronic is not a "high drain" battery, and has a 6.8 Amp limit. This battery could be used for applications for juice attachments which have 1.5 ohm or higher. The protected version of this battery is not applicable for e-cig use, but is for flashlights or similar devices.

 

[Revelene]

At one time, protected li-ion batteries were recommended for mechanical mods. With the advent of modern battery technology, IMR and hybrid batteries are currently recommended instead because of their safer chemistry. -- http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

In the order of preference for safety:

1. Li-mn IMR safe chemistry batteries.
2. Hybrid safe chemistry batteries.
3. Good quality name-brand protected Li-ion batteries such as AW protected ICR batteries.
4. Branded protected Li-ion ICR batteries such as Trustfire, Surefire, & Ultrafire batteries.
5. The least-preferable option is a generic protected Li-ion ICR battery.
6. Unprotected rechargeable Li-ion cells should not be used.
7. Standard cells (non-rechargeable) MUST NOT be used. (ie Ever Ready, Ray O Vac)

With a mechanical mod without a regulating module (a Kick), vapor and general performance will gradually drop as the battery's voltage falls off. With experience you'll learn when to replace it, but until then having a voltmeter or digital multimeter would be very useful to check the battery's voltage periodically as you use it. Voltage should not drop below 3.2 volts. Batteries should be removed around 3.4 volts to be recharged.

Any of the high quality, name brand IMR or hybrid batteries which have a 10 amp limit will suffice for the majority of applications.

If using sub-ohm coils, my cut-off (and PBusardo's) is anything less than 0.8 ohms should use one of the higher Amp batteries for a wider safety margin. Most of these batteries have at least 20 Amps in reserve.

A large list of recommended IMR/hybrid batteries with their Amp limits is in the link below:

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected?

I recommend RTD Vapor and Orbtronic as reputable vendors for batteries & charger.

Side note: The NCR18650B 3400 mAh battery sold by Panasonic and Orbtronic is not a "high drain" battery, and has a 6.8 Amp limit.

Nicely put!

 

[filthyrich]

thank you, those aw 2000mah are 20amp

and can I still use my cgr18650ch when I use my protank 1.2-1.4 ohm micro coil

 

[Baditude]

thank you, those aw 2000mah are 20amp

and can I still use my cgr18650ch when I use my protank 1.2-1.4 ohm micro coil

The AW 18650 IMR 2000 mAh battery is only 10 Amp.

The AW 18650 IMR 1600 mAh battery is 24 Amp.

 

[tnt56]

Nicely put!

Agree 100% with this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Go Bad Go.
A little tidbit of info I found out yesterday.
If your building your own coils, the meter you use is very important when going sub ohm.. I've done some test and compared different ones. They can be anywhere from .2 - .4 ohms off. When going sub ohm this can be critical.
Example is, I built a 0.8 ohm coil for a RM2. Shows .8 ohms on a cartometer that a lot of us use. With an accurate DMM (Fluke 73 III), it read out at 0.6..
Be safe everyone.
As for protected batteries, little humor on my part. I forgot to lock my P+ one time. I had a protected AW ICRP 18650 3100 mah. I sat down for lunch and accidently touched the carto/tank I had attached to it. LR boge carto. I got burnt to............ well you get the idea. It was so hot I had to use napkins to dismantle it. Tossed all the parts on the table I was sitting at, so they could cool off. The other customers at Braums got a good laugh watching me looking under all the tables for the hotspring.
I'll go with a fuse every time from now on.

 

[tnt56]

The AW 18650 IMR 2000 mAh battery is only 10 Amp.

The AW 18650 IMR 1600 mAh battery is 24 Amp.

That's why I like my Evol Kicks. I don't really trust the other brands.

 

[Baditude]

I also had a not so humorous experience with a protected battery in a mechanical mod. The fire switch accidentally got compressed in a pants pocket and caused rapid discharge of the battery until it went into thermal runaway. The entire mod got too hot to touch, the battery vented gas hot enough to badly scorch my pants, and ruined the fire switch where the gases vented. Note that the so-called protection on the battery and the hot spring did not prevent the battery to go into thermal runaway.

 

[Revelene]

Agree 100% with this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Go Bad Go.
A little tidbit of info I found out yesterday.
If your building your own coils, the meter you use is very important when going sub ohm.. I've done some test and compared different ones. They can be anywhere from .2 - .4 ohms off. When going sub ohm this can be critical.
Example is, I built a 0.8 ohm coil for a RM2. Shows .8 ohms on a cartometer that a lot of us use. With an accurate DMM (Fluke 73 III), it read out at 0.6..
Be safe everyone.
As for protected batteries, little humor on my part. I forgot to lock my P+ one time. I had a protected AW ICRP 18650 3100 mah. I sat down for lunch and accidently touched the carto/tank I had attached to it. LR boge carto. I got burnt to............ well you get the idea. It was so hot I had to use napkins to dismantle it. Tossed all the parts on the table I was sitting at, so they could cool off. The other customers at Braums got a good laugh watching me looking under all the tables for the hotspring.
I'll go with a fuse every time from now on.

Definitely. A good quality DMM is a must. Though I don't use protection... Hehe call me adventurous.

 

[tnt56]

And I use that pic to help warn others of what can happen.
None of it is funny. I use my story for a bit of humor in the shop.
At least neither one of us were hurt!
So just cause a battery says it's protected does not mean it's truly protected. IMHO.

 

[Revelene]

And I use that pic to help warn others of what can happen.
None of it is funny. I use my story for a bit of humor in the shop.
At least neither one of us were hurt!
So just cause a battery says it's protected does not mean it's truly protected. IMHO.

Totally agree. I work in Telecommunications and used to be around cell tower batteries that make these ecig batteries look like toys. That said, I still don't use fuses because they take away a small percentage of power. If you don't truly know how batteries work, though, I would not recommend going unprotected.

 

[Baditude]

So just cause a battery says it's protected does not mean it's truly protected. IMHO.

This is the very reason that safe chemistry batteries are now recommended over protected ICR batteries.

The only reason that protected batteries could be sold and used is because of the protective circuits. They use a very volatile (as in "flamable") battery chemistry. When the protected circuit fails, the battery will self destruct into flames and possibly explode in an enclosed metal tube. This is the purpose of vent holes in mechanical mods.

Safe chemistry batteries are more tolerant to heat and other stress and are not volatile in nature when they fail. They can vent, but less dramatically than a ICR battery in thermal runaway.

 

[tnt56]

Cannot agree with the above two post enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The problem is that a lot of people really do believe that just because it fits it will work. I used to work as an Industrial Maintenance Technician. I worked with high voltage, and have seen what a 20,000 volt capacitor can do when it goes south. I've also had to discharge these things so that I could work on the equipment. Wearing the proper PPE (Personal Protective Equipment), It's kinda fun to see just how far you can arc these things. Most I ever got was approximately 2 ft. Then I chickened out.
I've also grown a lot older since those young years. Would I ever do it again. H$$L NO WAY NO HOW, NOT FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY.