New Calculator to try

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Hoggy

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Do plastic bottles really affect flavors that bad? We really like dripping out of the bottles they come in directly into a 120ml Gorilla setting on a scale. When we are done there is no mess to clean up... just shake and store and put all the flavors back in their storage boxes and file them away in the dark til next mixing day.
If you think we are losing flavor to the plastic we might have to reconsider how we do things. Hmmm....

When getting the smaller flavoring bottles (like 1oz or less) that would have the dropper, there may not be as much of a problem - since it's likely you might use it up pretty quickly. But when getting the larger sizes like 4oz or 16oz, they don't come with droppers on them (any that I know of), and the intention is for big saving on those larger sizes - and also much more likely that they may not be used as quickly. According to Linda(IIRC?) at The Flavor Apprentice, she recommends to move them out of the plastic bottles for longer-term storage. So that's what I try to do. Even with the price of the glass bottles, the savings more than make up for getting the larger sizes - especially when considering that many times the price difference between 1oz and 4oz tend to be as little as $1/$2 more for quadruple the amount. And even MORE savings when going to the 16 ouncer's.

And I'm a reeEAAALLY cheap b-tard, so I just don't at all have it in me to bypass those kind of price differentials for ultimate savings. :drool:
Even most of my 'testers' tend to be 4oz sizes.. Sure, there are some I wish I avoided, but the ones I'm glad I got in 4oz FAR outweigh the bad. And I'm finding that even the 'bad' can be used to add good notes/complexity to various recipes. Although for the 'bad' ones, I usually just end up putting them back into the plastic 4oz bottles - and saving the amber-glass for other 'good' ones.
(But yes, for me it's VERY much a hobby. I may still not have any winning recipes yet, but it can be fun trying! Of course I also go through periods where I just want to use a 'backup' recipe type vape when I just don't feel like farting around.)

....So I don't know first hand at how the plastic can affect the flavorings, but I have many 4oz flavorings in amber glass that are over 5 years old by now, and are to-me completely unchanged. So for longer term term storage, I'd really recommend it.

Of course one downside to getting the bigger sizes is that there's no dropper, so some other way is needed to get it out of the bottles, even if mixing by weight.. And that's where my slowly built-up collection of glass syringes and 1.5" 18ga SS dispensing tips come into play - for least waste. (Glass and SS because some flavorings eat through or bloat plastic and rubber. Plus invariably, the plastic syringes either start binding up on me or become 'too loose' - and I don't want to get sucked into a plastic syringe habit, for life. ;))

The good news is that the glass and SS are so ridiculously easy to clean... They don't hold onto flavors at all, unlike plastic.

DO you know of any other tool out there that handles batching and inventory as I have described?

There is one other one I know of that tracks inventory, but isn't free (it has a required 'donation', but is advertised as "Freeware"). Wayne from DiyOrDie seemed to want to gravitate towards it. It was one called "Juice Grinder", but I have no idea if it would do what you're wanting to do. Just do a Google search on that.

In the mean time, I'll also try thinking if there's a way to bend this Juice Calculator to do what I think you're wanting it to do, similar to how I bend it to use pre-mixed nic bases.

The hopeful news here is that I think Hotrod has gone on hiatus before and returned. I could be remembering it wrong, but I think he might have just been coming back from a hiatus when I first discovered this calculator. He had some surgery where he had to stop development, and based on prior things he said, I kind of figured he might go on a hiatus after that. Us users can be rather 'pesky' about adding features (including myself :blush: ) - and he always quickly responded to them, so I think he understandably gets burnt out.
 
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IDJoel

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Do plastic bottles really affect flavors that bad? We really like dripping out of the bottles they come in directly into a 120ml Gorilla setting on a scale. When we are done there is no mess to clean up... just shake and store and put all the flavors back in their storage boxes and file them away in the dark til next mixing day.
If you think we are losing flavor to the plastic we might have to reconsider how we do things. Hmmm....
I too mix by weight and welcome the convenience of using plastic dripper bottles. I have some flavor concentrates that are 3 years old (I have over 300 now) and remain usable. Now; have they changed? I am sure some have, but I have yet to notice it. Unlike @Hoggy, I do not buy in large volumes (I tend to buy "known" repeat flavors in 30mL/1oz. bottles, and "new" untried flavors in 15mL, or smaller). But, I tend to agree with him, that it is generally accepted as a "best practice" that glass is a better storage medium than plastics.

TFA's home website has some great information, that explains how not all flavor types (fruits, candies, tobaccos, etc.) behave the same here. It is a short two page article, but it provides a good basic introduction to flavor concentrate longevity.
DO you know of any other tool out there that handles batching and inventory as I have described?
I was going to mention Juice Grinder as well; but @Hoggy already beat me to it!:D I have used it (i was using it prior to finding @HotRod19579's Juice calculator) and found it rather similar (to E-JuiceMeUp; as well). I can tell you, that it will not do what you want, even with the access to inventory tracking "donation." What may be worthy of a phone call, or e-mail, is their "commercial add-on" feature. It too, is not a free feature (not sure how much as I see two prices: $30/month per machine of their homepage; and $45/year per machine), but take a look at the Commercial tab (it has contact info for questions), and decide if you wish to go from there.

Aside from Juice Grinder, I could not find another "commercial" calculator; and I think that is really what is required. Batching, and select inventory control/monitoring for multiple recipes, is really more in the domain of commercial (large volume(?)) mixers, verses home DIY mixers.

Let us know what you find out!:D
 

Mr.Reliant

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I too mix by weight and welcome the convenience of using plastic dripper bottles. I have some flavor concentrates that are 3 years old (I have over 300 now) and remain usable. Now; have they changed? I am sure some have, but I have yet to notice it. Unlike @Hoggy, I do not buy in large volumes (I tend to buy "known" repeat flavors in 30mL/1oz. bottles, and "new" untried flavors in 15mL, or smaller). But, I tend to agree with him, that it is generally accepted as a "best practice" that glass is a better storage medium than plastics.

TFA's home website has some great information, that explains how not all flavor types (fruits, candies, tobaccos, etc.) behave the same here. It is a short two page article, but it provides a good basic introduction to flavor concentrate longevity.

I was going to mention Juice Grinder as well; but @Hoggy already beat me to it!:D I have used it (i was using it prior to finding @HotRod19579's Juice calculator) and found it rather similar (to E-JuiceMeUp; as well). I can tell you, that it will not do what you want, even with the access to inventory tracking "donation." What may be worthy of a phone call, or e-mail, is their "commercial add-on" feature. It too, is not a free feature (not sure how much as I see two prices: $30/month per machine of their homepage; and $45/year per machine), but take a look at the Commercial tab (it has contact info for questions), and decide if you wish to go from there.

Aside from Juice Grinder, I could not find another "commercial" calculator; and I think that is really what is required. Batching, and select inventory control/monitoring for multiple recipes, is really more in the domain of commercial (large volume(?)) mixers, verses home DIY mixers.

Let us know what you find out!:D

Thanks for the great info ID! I will definitely check on grinder commercial. And I may not freak out on the plastic just yet. Heh
NOTE: the Rants below are not directed at anyone here... just venting :)
<rant> I know paying for software is distasteful to some but usually things of value in life are not free. It astounds me how the general public thinks some things like software, music, etc. should be free yet happily pay exorbitant prices for other things far less useful to them. It takes talent skill education and lots of hard work to produce good software and if we want good software in the world it should have value on the market.
Speaking of markets I don't really understand why wanting to efficiently mix 10 or more recipes with co-dependent ingredients should be something only giant commercial juice manufacturers would need. With DIY on the rise I think there is definitely an unmet need in the market here. </rant>

Any programmers on here wana hook up? Unmet market needs often = profitable ventures. ;)
 
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Hoggy

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just venting :)
<rant> I know paying for software is distasteful to some but usually things of value in life are not free. It astounds me how the general public thinks some things like software, music, etc. should be free yet happily pay exorbitant prices for other things far less useful to them. It takes talent skill education and lots of hard work to produce good software and if we want good software in the world it should have value on the market.

I think a lot of people have been spoiled by the open-source 'market'/programs - Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, DisplayCal/Argyll (color management for photographers), etc.
My particular bias against Juice Grinder isn't so much that it asks for money - heck, even this calc allows an option to make a donation. Although in the case of this calc, a donation is a true donation.
My personal issue with JG - and unfortunately it's not the only one guilty of this.. Is that it advertises itself as "Freeware", when in fact it blocks out features that are easily within the realms of the home mixer - like inventory tracking and batches of over 150ml.
It wouldn't bad if it it didn't label itself as "Freeware". Any other label might have been better: be it "DonationWare", "ShareWare", or what have you.
Though as I say, it's not the only one guilty of mislabeling itself as "FreeWare". "Freeware" should be meaning NO paid versions or features. If there are paid versions or features, then it's not freeware. Non-nagging donation possibilities would still qualify as Freeware.

Well, that's my rant.. :D

Speaking of markets I don't really understand why wanting to efficiently mix 10 or more recipes with co-dependent ingredients should be something only giant commercial juice manufacturers would need. With DIY on the rise I think there is definitely an unmet need in the market here. </rant>

I think this would be a case of different people having differing definitions of 'realm of the home mixer'. JG seems to think >150ml and inventory tracking are outside of the usefulness to a home mixer - which I disagree with, myself.

However I might agree that what you're considering 'realm of home mixer' is not usually in the realm of your average home mixer. While maybe more families should start having 'Family Mixing Night', I don't think it's currently something many families do right now - for better or worse.
 
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Mr.Reliant

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...However I might agree that what you're considering 'realm of home mixer' is not usually in the realm of your average home mixer. While maybe more families should start having 'Family Mixing Night', I don't think it's currently something many families do right now - for better or worse.

I am wondering how does everyone else do their mixing. I mean do you wake up one day and discover that your fave ADV (Watermelon Shiznit) is empty so you break out the gear and mix up a new bottle of it then pack everything back away again until your NEXT bottle runs dry?

I suppose if you have huge bottles of flavors and you only use .5 ml at a time of many of them, then inventory control is not a huge concern. As long as all the 4oz plus flavor bottles are over a quarter full you are golden.
I can see the value of glass if you always keep a 3 or 4 year supply of all your flavors on hand. AND I suppose there is a definite advantage to having a huge supply on hand in addition to the obvious $/ml savings... When the FDA PockyKlipse finally closes us all down then the guy with the closet stacked to the ceiling with mason jars full of flavor concentrates will be the one having the last laugh on the rest of us slobs. LOL

I guess I am trying to run my inventory really tight compared to some folks. I am doing it this way for a few reasons... 1) to keep my flavors fresh. I am always concerned about large bottles (glass or otherwise) losing some of their important volatiles to the large volume of air inside a low level bottle. The bigger the bottle the worse the effect... 2) Since I am new to this I want to avoid having huge qty's of flavors that we ended up not liking... and 3) to save money... since my stash is small (but growing), I having very few flavors on hand, it would be cost prohibitive (in the short run at least) to buy more qty than I will need for the next 3 to 6 months. However, I DO like to buy in big enough batches that I can take advantage of free shipping and/or maximize the impact of sales promotions. I suppose as my stash growth approaches a point of equilibrium (does that EVER happen?) I might be forced to order larger bottles of fewer flavors just to make the free shipping cut off.
Also I don't like being forced to order just because I am out of a juice I like. I like to order well ahead of NEEDING to order. When I get that email from Jim-Bob-Joe Flav-O-Rama (JBJFOR) telling me there is 25% off site wide if I order NOW...then I want to be sitting there ready to jump on it.

The trick is figuring out HOW MUCH and WHAT I am gonna need at all times.

Thanks for all your input guys! I am remembering once again how much I love this community.
 

VapnJunkie

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I have been only mixing about 1yr...and I caught the bug pretty fast.
Due to my day job and regular family life, I can only mix on weekends (if I'm lucky)...developing new recipes...some are great, some are good and some not so good. I am not one of those that can vape the same thing day in and day out...most days I will vape 4-6 different recipes. There are probably a dozen or so that I will go back to every week or so.
I do have a large library of flavors (1200+) so I can make pretty much whatever I want or anyone else recipe if I choose to. I know flavors will eventually lose some potency, but I have some that are over 1yr old and they still taste fine to me. From what i have read most should last approx. 2yrs if not exposed to heat or sunlight. I have also heard/read that some creams and cream like flavor can get better over time. Most of my collection is 30ml bottles with maybe 100 4oz bottles...those are the ones that I use the most. And yes I do have some flavors that are terrible and may never find a use for them...for me is just part of doing business. some are good and some are not.
I do sell to my friends, family and co-workers ...so that helps with the overall cost.
 
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Hoggy

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I guess I am trying to run my inventory really tight compared to some folks. I am doing it this way for a few reasons... 1) to keep my flavors fresh. I am always concerned about large bottles (glass or otherwise) losing some of their important volatiles to the large volume of air inside a low level bottle. The bigger the bottle the worse the effect... 2) Since I am new to this I want to avoid having huge qty's of flavors that we ended up not liking... and 3) to save money... since my stash is small (but growing), I having very few flavors on hand, it would be cost prohibitive (in the short run at least) to buy more qty than I will need for the next 3 to 6 months. However, I DO like to buy in big enough batches that I can take advantage of free shipping and/or maximize the impact of sales promotions. I suppose as my stash growth approaches a point of equilibrium (does that EVER happen?) I might be forced to order larger bottles of fewer flavors just to make the free shipping cut off.
Also I don't like being forced to order just because I am out of a juice I like. I like to order well ahead of NEEDING to order. When I get that email from Jim-Bob-Joe Flav-O-Rama (JBJFOR) telling me there is 25% off site wide if I order NOW...then I want to be sitting there ready to jump on it.

The trick is figuring out HOW MUCH and WHAT I am gonna need at all times.

Yeah.. When one is just starting out, I wouldn't recommend the 4 ouncer's just yet. Just be aware that while it's possible some might change, I think you will generally need a Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometer machine to detect it -- not kidding. More possible could potency loss, so you just use a tad more at worst - but I still think you'd need one of those machines to detect it. And one thing is you want to make sure to shake well your flavor before using it (no matter what size) - which may also reintegrate some of those lighter volatiles, theoretically.

But when starting, one should want to get smaller quantities of some of the basics first.. Like 1 or 2 brands of the blueberries, strawberries, etc. Then 1 or 2 brands of some of the various mixers/creams. I only have very few 16 ouncers ATM: tfa whip cream, tfa marshallow (reg and toasted), tfa cinnamon roll, la cream cheese icing, tfa juicy peach, tfa blueberry wild, tfa ry4-double, and tfa citrus punch -- next will be tfa vanilla custard, for sure (when I run down my 4oz'er -- should be a while :)). But, yes, you first want to build up your general flavor repertoire before you might even consider delving into the bigger quantities. And there's still always the chance you might get a bit sick of a flavor you use a lot - but chances are, you'll likely get back to it at some point - it's always a balancing act to be sure. (Just don't avoid them because you think they may go bad - they simply don't, if stored even halfway properly.) However if you love say, banana, generally any banana you might get, you should be able to find a use for. Just research the flavor to see if many are saying a particular brand of it may be 'bad' to them - and you should be good to go with your 4oz 'testers', in theory. For instance, stay away from FW vanilla custard - I was a bad boy and didn't do my research on that one. ;) But even that one, I'm finding decent uses for - though I just don't think I'll get it again, at this point (although my mind could always change on that).

When I started out, my sizes were 4ml/15ml with a few 1oz. However now that I've built up my flavor library, I think 4ml is just way too small, unless it's for something that you have absolutely NO idea what it might taste like.. For me that would be huckleberry, honeysuckle, and some others - and that would also include those those flavor types such as "bubblegum". But generally I think even 15ml could be just a tad too small to get a good grasp on a flavor - but certainly far better than 4ml.

You could go crazy if you're always going to be chasing every single flavor and brand out there - there's just too many. If a recipe calls for a certain brand of a certain flavor - you should, at the least, still get something good by using a different brand (even if they say you NEED that brand). That is, if the original recipe had a chance at being considered good (to you) to begin with. You may not replicate exactly what the original recipe creator created, but you'll get something darn close after trying to account for possible percentage differences. Another downside to flavor chasing IMO is that you're not going to likely remember what each is good for or how to use it.. So you'll have all the flavors ever made - but you may be stuck with only mixing others' recipes for them, forevermore.

I go through spurts where I try new things, and then go through spurts where I simply don't want to fart around. For those times, I make my 'fallback/backup' type vapes - like Citrus punch or cinnamon roll or peach or ry4. I've only ever made one 480ml/16oz batch of something when I didn't have but one 16 ouncer (RY4). But now I would make at most 120ml/4oz of something like citrus punch or cinnamon roll (w/cream cheese icing) for that 'lazyday' type vape. That's also what some of the 16 ouncers come in handy for (outside of some of the frequent mixer types). However I'm in one of those spurts of trying my hand at some new things lately and therefore the 5/10/halfway-filled-30ml bottles are taking over every square inch of desk/table space - so no need for 120's right now. :cool:

ETA: Oh.. And I can certainly understand about wanting to order on those 25% sales, free shipping cutoffs.. That's almost exclusively when and how I order. And when they allowed 25% off to include 16 ouncers, is also where I've made a 'killing' on ordering many (if not all) of my 16 ouncers. :thumbs:
 
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Mr.Reliant

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I do sell to my friends, family and co-workers ...so that helps with the overall cost.

Thanks for the info Mr. Junkie! While I definitely SUPPLY my family I hadn't yet considered the possibility of selling to them! WOW this may be the biggest eye opener yet... With the amount of juice I hand out I might just be able to quit my day job with this idea! :)

I go through spurts where I try new things, and then go through spurts where I simply don't want to fart around. For those times, I make my 'fallback/backup' type vapes - like Citrus punch or cinnamon roll or peach or ry4. I've only ever made one 480ml/16oz batch of something when I didn't have but one 16 ouncer (RY4). But now I would make at most 120ml/4oz of something like citrus punch or cinnamon roll (w/cream cheese icing) for that 'lazyday' type vape. That's also what some of the 16 ouncers come in handy for (outside of some of the frequent mixer types). However I'm in one of those spurts of trying my hand at some new things lately and therefore the 5/10/halfway-filled-30ml bottles are taking over every square inch of desk/table space - so no need for 120's right now. :cool:

Sounds like you are saying you mix single recipes at a time then right? You also seem like an explorer while (right now anyway) I am following maps & paths blazed by others. Right now I just need to get from Point A (need to restock my nicotine supply) to Point B (the juice cabinet is full again) and really haven't been interested in or taken the time for any scenic routes in order to actually enjoy the ride. ;) If y'all keep at it ya might convert me yet though. Heh Heh

Interesting and enlightening stuff!
 

IDJoel

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And I may not freak out on the plastic just yet. Heh
The way I look at it: as long as my supply for any given ingredient is <30mL, or going to be used in <year, I am not going to sweat the plastic containers,... until it becomes a problem for me.

Glass can have its own problems too: if you store in large bottles, the excess headspace (as the fluid levels drop) may permit significant flavor loss; glass bottles capped with rubber-eye-dropper caps are quite susceptible to the loss of volatiles due to the extreme gas permeability of the soft rubber bulb material (which also often makes up the seal of the cap as well).

So, until I detect a personal loss, or degradation, I will not worry about it.
<rant> I know paying for software is distasteful to some but usually things of value in life are not free. It astounds me how the general public thinks some things like software, music, etc. should be free yet happily pay exorbitant prices for other things far less useful to them. It takes talent skill education and lots of hard work to produce good software and if we want good software in the world it should have value on the market.
I agree with @Hoggy on this one. I have no problem with an individual selling anything for profit; if they can find a market willing to pay for it. But don't label it as freeware! Crippleware would be much more honest. Or, here's a thought, how about being up front and just put a price tag on it. It has worked for brick and mortar businesses for centuries.

True freeware, such as HotRod's calculator, even when they accept donations (without placing limitations), should be the standard.

I was so pleased with HotRod's calculator, and thought it had more value than the last piece of software I purchased at our local BestBuy (a current copy of Norton), that I sent HR a donation for the same amount I payed for Norton. I dumped Norton and still use Juice Calculator... go figure!:laugh::lol::lol::lol::laugh:

Okay now my ranting is over.:blush:
Speaking of markets I don't really understand why wanting to efficiently mix 10 or more recipes with co-dependent ingredients should be something only giant commercial juice manufacturers would need. With DIY on the rise I think there is definitely an unmet need in the market here.
I apologize if I made you feel like your request was unreasonable, or not appropriate to any but commercial concerns; that was not my intention.:( When I first read your initial post, I thought about whether I had read a similar request in this (or any other calculator) thread, and couldn't recall a single instance. Then I thought about how a typical (whatever the heck that might be;)) DIYer who is mixing for only for their own use. Me in other words... ('cause isn't it all about me?:D), might benefit from your request.

As I am lazy, I tend to put major mixing off until my stash is pretty anemic; so I do tend to mix somewhere around 10 different recipes on mixing day. Because my mixing does not have to be coordinated with anyone else; I tend not to finalize what I am actually going to mix until the day of, or at best, the night before mixing (my flavor moods are all over the map and vary day to day). So any alerts to purchase insufficient quantities, is of no help to me for today's mixing session... but I can certainly see how those who are able to plan ahead, or mix the same recipes over and over, could certainly benefit.

That said, I could see how it would be nice (even in my own situation), as I build my list; to know I can't do recipes A, C, AND G today, and I will have to make a choice. There have been one or two instances where I get to the sixth recipe on my list; only to note that I have run out of a particular concentrate, and really wished I had mixed the last recipe instead of one of the others.:facepalm:

So I can see, even for someone like me, how your request has merit and value. And it would certainly give "that" calculator a feature not had by any of the competition. To be honest; I am a bit surprised, now that I have thought about it, that it hasn't been brought up before.:D
 

IDJoel

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Right now I just need to get from Point A (need to restock my nicotine supply) to Point B (the juice cabinet is full again)
If you have a lot of overlapping flavors, AND you feel fairly confident the family's palates won't be changing anytime soon, those specific flavor concentrates might be good candidates for those lager sizes @Hoggy has been talking about.

I have one friend (no jokes please:evil::D), who I have been mixing one recipe for, for the past two years. I make him 120 mL once a month, and each time I ask him "is it okay; you want any adjustments? Getting tired of it yet? You want to try something else?" And he just say "Nope; keep it the same."

Last month I finally broke down. It is a more complex recipe with 11 ingredients, and kind of a pain to mix. And of course, he doesn't let me know he needs more until he is out; and it usually isn't most opportune for me. I used the calculator's feature to convert the recipe into a flavor base (flavor concentrates only; no PG, VG, or nic) and bought enough concentrates to make 6 ounces of the base. I now have enough of this "custom" concentrate to make about 14 months worth of his recipe, and I have the ingredients committed (no worry about being used up making something else). And, now instead of having to fuss with 9 flavors PLUS bases, each time I have to mix for him; I take out the ONE flavor base, add the desired amount, add PG/VG/nic, and I am done! Yay me!;):D

Oh, and as for recouping costs: don't forget Juice Calculator automatically displays the cost of each recipe right down at the bottom of the main screen (provided you have purchase price of ingredients entered). My buddy is tickled pink to pay me replacement costs; compared to what the local vape shops were charging him!:D
 

Mr.Reliant

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Last month I finally broke down. It is a more complex recipe with 11 ingredients, and kind of a pain to mix. And of course, he doesn't let me know he needs more until he is out; and it usually isn't most opportune for me. I used the calculator's feature to convert the recipe into a flavor base (flavor concentrates only; no PG, VG, or nic) and bought enough concentrates to make 6 ounces of the base. I now have enough of this "custom" concentrate to make about 14 months worth of his recipe, and I have the ingredients committed (no worry about being used up making something else). And, now instead of having to fuss with 9 flavors PLUS bases, each time I have to mix for him; I take out the ONE flavor base, add the desired amount, add PG/VG/nic, and I am done! Yay me!;):D

Holy oversights BatMan!!! That will help us out A TON!!! THanks man... why didn't I think of that before it so obvious!

We are still trying several new recipes every time we mix but we have developed a series of good ole standby's that we ALWAYS mix. Custom flavor bases will work PERFECT to handle all those and will help fill the gap we have been discussing here recently. WOO HOO!
 

Hoggy

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Holy oversights BatMan!!! That will help us out A TON!!! THanks man... why didn't I think of that before it so obvious!

Well, if you're pretty new to this calculator, you may not have fully realized that feature. :)

We are still trying several new recipes every time we mix but we have developed a series of good ole standby's that we ALWAYS mix.

Yep, that's about what I tend to do... All 3 of: exploratory (for me), new recipes by others, and ole standbys.

Glad we came up with a workable solution!
 

Mr.Reliant

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Glad it helps; let us know if you need any help navigating the calculator!:thumbs::D

Well, if you're pretty new to this calculator, you may not have fully realized that feature. :) Glad we came up with a workable solution!

Sorry... I had not noticed the flavor base feature before. However, even if I had noticed it I would not have realized the impact it has on my situation until after chatting with y'all. Sorry to fill up so much space in this thread with stupid newb questions but maybe future newbs might find it useful some day. Heh

BTW: IDJoel the write up you did on this feature that is inside the help menu now is awesome.

While this really doesn't "SOLVE" my problem it WILL minimize it quite a bit which will make using this tool much more valuable to me now. THANKS SO MUCH GUYS!
 

Hoggy

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... Also don't forget about this calc's "cost" feature that IDJoel mentioned. You could ask your family for simple recoup costs. Also bear in mind that it calculates the cost based on what is currently in each ingredients' "Cost" and "volume" fields. When making a flavor base, I think it even calculates the ending cost of that, too.

And if you ever reach an exploratory stage, keep in mind the "Tools->Modify existing recipe" feature. It's such a wonderful tool where you can constantly adjust a running mix by adding new ingredients or adding and reducing percentages - the latter being to add more of the other ingredients (it can't take it out though, unfortunately :grr: ). I'm using that feature all the time when doing "exploratory's". Of course it can also be used to 'top off' a current mix as well - and you could benefit from seed-steeping that way.
(OTOH, this is one area where I think inventory-tracking leaks happen - since I don't think it reduces from inventory what you added in there.)

And yes, these posts will certainly help out future noobs.. Plus us Hotrod groupies are glad to help others learn about our beloved program. :smokie:
 
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IDJoel

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Sorry... I had not noticed the flavor base feature before. However, even if I had noticed it I would not have realized the impact it has on my situation until after chatting with y'all. Sorry to fill up so much space in this thread with stupid newb questions but maybe future newbs might find it useful some day. Heh
You have absolutely nothing to be sorry about; this kind of resource (for questions and answers), is one of the reasons HotRod started it. The community of this thread is why I feel so comfortable with the program. Without all the people who helped me, and all the questions that were already asked prior to my even finding out about JC, I wouldn't be able to offer my own help. So, any appreciation you feel toward us, is truly a tip of the hat to all those who came before us.:thumb:

Even answering questions, such as yours, has helped me better understand this tool HotRod has given us. This is part of the motivation that keeps me active in this thread. And, as you pointed out already, others can certainly benefits from these discussions.:D
BTW: IDJoel the write up you did on this feature that is inside the help menu now is awesome.
That is kind of you to say; thank you.:blush::D

(P.S. Thanks for actually taking the time, and making the effort, to read the help file. I don't think too many people realize how much useful information can actually be had there.:))
While this really doesn't "SOLVE" my problem it WILL minimize it quite a bit which will make using this tool much more valuable to me now. THANKS SO MUCH GUYS!
Glad to hear it!:thumbs: We just like to help other find out how useful this calculator can be. Is it perfect? I don't think even HotRod would say that it is. However; I think it is heads and shoulders above anything else available at this time. I don't think I would ever try to convert all those folks using other programs and apps, but I will not be looking back anytime soon.

And a BIG thanks to you as well; much of my own learning and "fine tuning" of my use of JC, came from reading questions (and answers) from users just like yourself. Folks like you, who take the time to ask question, read replies, and respond in kind... creating a thoughtful dialog, is what keeps this thread alive, and sharpen all of our skills and understanding. Thanks for choosing to be part of this community.
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IDJoel

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And if you ever reach an exploratory stage, keep in mind the "Tools->Modify existing recipe" feature. It's such a wonderful tool where you can constantly adjust a running mix by adding new ingredients or adding and reducing percentages - the latter being to add more of the other ingredients (it can't take it out though, unfortunately :grr: ). I'm using that feature all the time when doing "exploratory's". Of course it can also be used to 'top off' a current mix as well - and you could benefit from seed-steeping that way.
Thanks for mentioning that one @Hoggy; I have yet to play with it. There is still so much this calculator has to offer that I have yet to explore.:facepalm::D
(OTOH, this is one area where I think inventory-tracking leaks happen - since I don't think it reduces from inventory what you added in there.)
Good to note; I wouldn't have even thought to look at that.:thumbs:
Plus us Hotrod groupies are glad to help others learn about our beloved program.
You said it my friend!:toast:
 

Hoggy

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Glass can have its own problems too: if you store in large bottles, the excess headspace (as the fluid levels drop) may permit significant flavor loss; glass bottles capped with rubber-eye-dropper caps are quite susceptible to the loss of volatiles due to the extreme gas permeability of the soft rubber bulb material (which also often makes up the seal of the cap as well).

So, until I detect a personal loss, or degradation, I will not worry about it.

I've been debating on whether or not to elaborate on this, but I finally decided to. :)

Yes, it's true that one should only ever use [4oz] amber glass bottles with poly-cone caps.. Never those rubber dropper tops! I get them in the Boston Round variety for $10 per dozen, shipped - so 83 cents per bottle. ...And 'Boston Round' due to them having narrow-top openings, to further help minimize losses.

But about the 4 ouncers.. There's theory, and there's practical experience. In my practical experience, you seriously would need a GC/MS type of machine to detect any losses or changes. Even after many openings over ~4-5 years, I have not detected any loss of potency or change in flavor profile in any flavor - not at all. I admit there is going to be the normal factor of 'threshold of noticeable difference' that could be going on.. But in my practical experience, it just doesn't seem to happen. And if it doesn't seem to happen, then for all intents and practical purposes - it doesn't. (And I have a LOT of flavors in 4oz amber glass Boston Round bottles w/polycone-caps! About 90% of my flavorings. :D )
Also note that another strike against storing in an original 4oz plastic bottle, is that IME they often escape air quite easily. If, after breaking the seal, you squeeze the bottle with the cap closed - and you hear air escaping... Well.. Let's just say that's obviously a sign that you want to get those out of their original plastic bottle ASAP, for sure! ;) (You may also want to check the smaller-size plastic bottles as well, just to be sure.)​

In the worst-possible-case (.1% chance?) scenario... If you're making juice for someone, and they say "this seems to be different" - well, then you know not to get that particular flavor in larger quantities at that point.. And you still would have likely used enough to make the monetary savings more than worthwhile - even if you had to throw it away.. But chances are, even in that worst-possible-case [.1% chance] scenario, all you might have to do is use slightly more.. Therefore, still, making the monetary savings more than worth it.
(And also keep in mind that you could always pour them from the 4oz glass bottles into the bottles that you previously bought that might have dropper tops (not the rubber kind), for easy mixing by weight. That would also serve to reduce the number of times you open those 4oz glass bottles, as well.)

Now the 16 ouncers remain to be seen for my practical experience... However, I do pour (or usually syringe) it into 4oz amber glass for usage. So I would only ever be opening the main bottle/jar about 4-5 times. If one wants, you could even pour it into 2oz amber glass w/polycone-caps, and still only be opening the main 16oz jar/bottle 8-9 times in its lifetime. ..... The TFA RY4-double is the only 16 ouncer that I've had for about 4 years - if anything, that one seems to have gotten stronger.
But for sure the 16oz sizes would be for those flavors that are in almost every recipe - or that you might consider them to be your 'staple' flavors (whatever that may mean to each person). Although I've read that mason/canning jars may not be the most ideal for some flavors, so I intend to buy some 16oz amber glass Boston Round w/polycone-cap bottles as soon as I can afford them.

For anyone not aware, all Wizard Lab's flavors (at least up to 4oz, for sure) come in clear glass - with the 1-ounce & 4oz sizes in clear glass Boston Rounds with polycone caps. Not amber glass, but I always store my flavors in the dark anyways.

Now there may well be other reasons not to get the 4 oz sizes, but I don't want people to worry for one single solitary second, that flavor change or potency loss should ever be a deterrent to the larger sizes. The monetary savings are just too great.. Almost astronomical! :w00t:
 
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squee

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For anyone not aware, all Wizard Lab's flavors (at least up to 4oz, for sure) come in clear glass - with the 1-ounce & 4oz sizes in clear glass Boston Rounds with polycone caps.
Sadly, not anymore - they stopped doing that late last year(?) and now the only thing sent in glass is the 8mL. The others are in those PET bottles with the twist dropper tops.
 

Mr.Reliant

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Sadly, not anymore - they stopped doing that late last year(?) and now the only thing sent in glass is the 8mL. The others are in those PET bottles with the twist dropper tops.

That makes sense since they were recently bought out by another company. They apparently got rid of a lot of the employees who had been around from the start. Makes sense that they would change their bottles too.
I am starting to gravitate towards Nicotine River since they carry the Nic Salt that I use, great selection of Flavors, & have awesome prices as well. I can usually one stop shop there. I also don't have to wait for a month or more to get my Nic Salt from NN that way either. LOL

If you haven't heard of Nic River the founder & CEO was recently interviewed by DIY or DIE here:
 
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