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Vacco

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are you measuring by volume or weight? If the latter perhaps your SG values are off? If the former perhaps you aren't being accurate with how you measure the ingredient volumes?

Thanks Fozzy71,
I do measure by weight. I am looking at my ingredient defaults under options but dont see any values for SG?
Where can I find those values and also, Is there a list of default weight values that I can use to compare and correct my calculator to?
 
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VapnJunkie

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Directly above the "Recipes" dropdown, there should be a blue bar labelled "Filter recipes By".. You likely have on the right side of that, a button with 2 down arrows. Make sure you only click on the BUTTON - it doesn't open by single/double-clicking the bar. And there, you can select the categories to show.
Thanks Hoggy, I use that frequently, but do you know a way to edit it?
 
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Boxster

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Thanks Fozzy71,
I do measure by weight. I am looking at my ingredient defaults under options but dont see any values for SG?
Where can I find those values and also, Is there a list of default weight values that I can use to compare and correct my calculator to?

SG Specific Gravity = Grams per ml
Most flavorings are PG based so using the g/ml for PG is close enough.
For a test, measure out 10 ml and weigh it. Total weight divided by 10 will give you the grams per ml
 
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VapnJunkie

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Yes he has! No intended guilt trip to you, or anyone else reading, and HotRod will never plug it himself, but... if you have the desire/found value... he has provided a means to donate to the "cause" under the "Help" tab. `nough said.
No guilt taken....Those who spend a tremendous amount of time, effort and knowledge to make our lives easier should/need to be compensated. I can only imagine the hours HotRod has spend tweaking this app.....I am honored to donate and show my gratitude...every bit counts.
 

Vacco

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Dec 10, 2016
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Boxster, I tested 10ml of Cap Butter cream. It came out to 10.26 g. Is that an accepted value? Should I update the values for Grams per ml to 1.026 for all my flavorings? All my flavorings are currently at 1.000 Gram per ml.
And is there a good list of Specific Gravity defaults for PG/VG and flavorings.
Also after the program update it prompted me to use a default value of 1.038. Any thoughts?
Thanks
 
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VapnJunkie

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Question? I just finished updating all my ingredients with price and quantity in stock, etc. I can print a list of my ingredients on hand with the quantity, is there a way to see the value of my inventory? With all I have in stock for mixing I was just wondering how much Value ($$$) it was worth.
Burnie, you can open Ingredient Editor and highlight all the columns to want to copy and then paste it into Excel. Then simply highlight just the cost column and hit the "auto sum" button in the top right corner of Excel...( make sure you highlight one row below the targeted rows....this is where the total sum will be shown) See example
 

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Burnie

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Burnie, you can open Ingredient Editor and highlight all the columns to want to copy and then paste it into Excel. Then simply highlight just the cost column and hit the "auto sum" button in the top right corner of Excel...( make sure you highlight one row below the targeted rows....this is where the total sum will be shown) See example
That's not correct. The column you are totaling is the cost per 8ml/10ml/15ml/30ml/60ml etc. It is not taking into account your inventory level. Like the first on your list is $1.49 for 8ml, but is you have 16ml in stock the value would be $2.98. Your example does not show your inventory level.
 
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Fozzy71

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Thanks for the quick reply Burnie. I added the ML column and it does total 100% so then I tested your idea with a medical syringe to one of my 10 ml LDPE bottles and you were right! it was below the top. The bottle is actually 13ml. Ha who knew? Why would they do such a thing. (advertised as a 10ml bottle).

..

That is pretty standard to be sure you can fit what you expect to.

Boxster, I tested 10ml of Cap Butter cream. It came out to 10.26 g. Is that an accepted value? Should I update the values for Grams per ml to 1.026 for all my flavorings? All my flavorings are currently at 1.000 Gram per ml.
And is there a good list of Specific Gravity defaults for PG/VG and flavorings.
Also after the program update it prompted me to use a default value of 1.038. Any thoughts?
Thanks

Most people use 1.0 for PG flavorings but they likely weigh more. I went thru the MFG's sites and recipe forums to find as many actual weights as I could and updated the weight in the Ingredients menu. For any I could not find I use the button in the Ingredients to calculate it based on pg/vg makeup.
 

Boxster

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Boxster, I tested 10ml of Cap Butter cream. It came out to 10.26 g. Is that an accepted value? Should I update the values for Grams per ml to 1.026 for all my flavorings? All my flavorings are currently at 1.000 Gram per ml.
And is there a good list of Specific Gravity defaults for PG/VG and flavorings.
Also after the program update it prompted me to use a default value of 1.038. Any thoughts?
Thanks
1.038 is typically listed as the SG of PG (@ 20 degrees C)
1 gram/ml is the specific gravity of water @ 4 degrees C
This number can vary by temperature.
USP Grade Propylene Glycol
 
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VapnJunkie

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That's not correct. The column you are totaling is the cost per 8ml/10ml/15ml/30ml/60ml etc. It is not taking into account your inventory level. Like the first on your list is $1.49 for 8ml, but is you have 16ml in stock the value would be $2.98. Your example does not show your inventory level.
Sorry,. my bad. I misunderstood what you were trying to achieve.
 
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Hoggy

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Thanks Hoggy, I use that frequently, but do you know a way to edit it?

As far as I know, no way to edit it unfortunately.

................

As far as SG's go, one site i got many from is ELR. For the rest I just used the 'calculated based on pg/vg' button - as it's close enough.

I did finally end up getting a scale to complete my collection range of 5000g x 1g, 500g x .01, and 50g x .001g.. But, mainly because I wanted to anyways. :)
However I still mostly use syringe measuring because after all, this isn't rocket science. ;) And I use my set of glass syringes anyways, because 99% of my flavors are in 4oz bottles (so, no droppers).

And yes, whoever said DIY was cheaper didn't take into account the rabbit hole of becoming mad-scientist flavor-junkie equipment-collectors. Not to mention ~10,000 feet of various wire and a 3lb box of rayon. :vapor:
 
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IDJoel

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Thanks Fozzy71,
I do measure by weight. I am looking at my ingredient defaults under options but dont see any values for SG?
Where can I find those values and also, Is there a list of default weight values that I can use to compare and correct my calculator to?
Specific gravity is a ratio. For an actual definition and explanation you can read this: Specific Gravity. In the more real-world terms of the average DIYer it is comparing the weight of water (given a value of 1milligram/milliliter) to the same volume of the ingredient in question. If it weighs less you will see values of less than 1 (e.g. 0.923), or if it weighs more than water it will have value greater than 1 (e.g. 1.264).

@Capt.shay .shay has compiled a pretty commonly accepted list of accepted "average" weights for common ingredients like PG, VG, and nic at various strengths and bases here in his measuring by weight tutorial.

DISCLAIMER: everything following is MY opinion, and mine alone. I encourage all who read it to question it all, do their own research, and come to their own conclusions. The following are only my own conclusions to this point and may well change.

In my mind (and I am only speaking for me) the biggest/first one to throw calculations off is VG; simply because it most often has the greatest difference compared to water (water being equal to 1 while VG is equal to 1.26) and it often is one of, if not the, single biggest percentage of a recipe. If you have your VG value set to 1 gram/milliliter instead of 1.26 grams/milliliter you are going to be 19% short of your total VG volume. If you are mixing high VG recipes it can throw your end result noticeably out of wack.

Flavors are a tuffy. Every flavor is going to be a little bit different depending on what is actually used to make the flavor concentrate. Flavors with a lot of alcohol will weigh less than 1. Others can weigh more. The base/carrier of the concentrate can also have a substantial affect. Those made with PG as the carrier (most common) will be lighter than those made with VG (less common but becoming more available and popular).

Most DIYers who measure by weight will input a value of 1.038 grams/milliliter (give or take a couple of hundredths)for PG, and a value of 1.26 grams/milliliter (again give or take a couple of hundredths) for VG, and a third value specific to the nicotine concentrate they are using (see the list generously provided by Capt.shay).

Then for flavor; DIYer's will do 1 of three things (listed from most common action taken to least common <note that I said "common;" not "correct" or "accurate">):
1) Give all flavors a common value of 1g/mL. This is easiest and the highs can "kinda/sorta" balance out the lows. As this is the most common practice; it makes sharing recipes the most 1:1 repeatable.

2) Give all PG based concentrates the same value as PG (1.038g/mL) and all VG based concentrates the same value as VG (1.26)... with the feeling that it gets them a little closer to the truth. Whether they are right or wrong really boils down to the individual ingredient. Not as common a practice as #1 but still common. Also will start to introduce minor variations when sharing recipes with those using other methods.

3) Research each ingredient for a MSD record (or similar) that will state a specific gravity for the ingredient in question and then use that value. This is probably a little closer to "accurate/true" SG than 1 or 2 but harder to find. Some vendors are quite open to sharing this info while others publish nothing; leading to choosing one of the other options for select ingredients. So it is going to be real hit and miss and will introduce further discrepancies when sharing recipes. Much less popular than #1 or #2 as it requires a LOT more work with not a lot of extra benefit.

4) I guess, for thoroughness, I should mention a fourth option (though I haven't heard anyone say they actually do this) would be to physically measure out and weigh each and every flavor concentrate in one's personal inventory. Has potential to be most accurate but you are, at the same time, potentially introducing the greatest chance for error; as it is completely at the mercy of the quality, and condition, of the measurer's equipment and the care with which they carry out the measurements.

AND... none of this takes in to account the correctness/accuracy of one's actual scale (how/if it is calibrated, it's designed resolution meaning acceptable variance which is often displayed as a +/- value) OR environmental conditions (primarily temperature, and secondarily atmospheric pressure/height above sea level), OR the acceptable variation of each batch of said ingredient from the manufacturer. Even standard ingredients like PG and VG aren't really standard. One vendor's VG will weigh slightly different than another vendor's VG.

You can see how quickly a person can get lost in the petty, minuscule, details of being "accurate." This is why the majority will settle on an "average" value and move on.

Please understand; I am not suggesting one way is "more right" than another. Neither am I sitting in judgement of anyone doing ANYTHING. What ever works best for you IS YOUR right way.

Remember that DIY is closer to cooking than it is to pharmacology. When was the last time you, or your Mother, or ANY professional chef you know/have seen, has checked the accuracy of their measuring cups or spoons? The one exception I can think of m i g h t be a professional baker who is dependent on his/her scale.

Bottom line is: "Close enough for you is close enough."

Cheers! :D
 

HotRod19579

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@HotRod19579
Is there a way to sort, and list, by Category ("Folder Name" in the Ingredient Editor)? Right now, the only way I see is if you are in an open recipe (or creating a new one) AND have the "Display ingredients by category" box checked (Tools>Options>Ingredients defaults>Display ingredients by category). And then, you either need to open the "Add ingredient" window, or select an existing ingredient and use its drop-down menu which risking unintentionally changing said ingredient.
The reason you can't sort by Manufacturer or Folder name is that they are dropdown list (a windows thing). Let me look into replicating those to columns but the replicated columns will be read-only and only display the current value (rather than a dropdown list). This will then allow the column title to be clicked and sorted.
(Related side-question: when using the feature described above my defaults (no idea why) to "Distilled Water" attached to category "Flavor Enhancers (additives)." In order to see the actual category labels I have to scroll up to "(up one level)" and select it to see the actual category names I have created. Is there a way I can change this to default to the categories themselves and NOT a specific ingredient?)
Let me look into this. The reason this is happening is that the ingredient dropdown is sorted by Ingredient type (Other is first followed by Flavors) and then with the ingredient type it is sorted by ingredient name. Alphabetically your "Distilled Water" is the first "Other" ingredient type. Then, the first ingredient in the sorted list is selected.
In my extremely limited understanding (read "having no clue" :facepalm:) it looks like the easiest (?) solution would be to add it as another column in the Ingredient Inventory window ("Current Inventory" tab) the way you have a sort-able "Manufacturer" column in the same window.
I notice the ingredient editor will allow me to sort all columns except the "Manufacturer" and "Folder Name" columns. I am guessing this is because of their relation to their attached drop-downs?[\QUOTE]
Yes, see my response above.
Reason for the request: as a forum/DIY junkie I am constantly looking at new recipes and often want to see if I have certain ingredients in my inventory. I may not have the ingredient listed/named the same way the recipe's author does. I may not have the exact ingredient/manufacturer but want to see if I have something that might make a reasonable substitute.

If I am looking for ingredient "X" (or I have named it "Y" but don't remember what I am calling it) but I know I would have put it in category "A" it would then be a simple as sort and scroll.

Thank you good sir! :D Your software and support are second to none! :wub:
 

HotRod19579

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Wow, shame on me for being away from the forum for a few days. Let me try to catch up on some of the posts and replies. It was tough putting together the list of open items. Please let me know if I overlooked anything.
Idjoel that was a great tutorial. Perhaps add it as a help file in the app??
With Idjoel’s blessing I will see what I can do about adding the tutorial to the calculator.
Is it possible to have flavor base recipe increase ingredient amount in the ingredients value when I remake the flavor base a second time. I've been inputting it manual
Currently there is no “linkage” between the ingredient base recipe and ingredient base ingredient. Let me see if I can come up with any solutions to this.
Hey sorry for the late answer and thanks for having a look at this. Doing some tests, this does seem to strangely only affect WINE/Linux setups (didn't you mention about wrong calculations reported by a WINE/Mac user or I'm mistaken)?

Please see the attached screenshots for more clarification. Both are the same juice file, running on a newly installed calculator in WINE (the same file I linked you to). Opening the same .XML in a Windows 10 install displays the right calculations (WINE compatibility is set to Win10 indeed)
I have worked extensively with a couple of users that had problems that were only occurring in WINE. Not having a machine running WINE made it extremely difficult to test/fix the problem. I was unsuccessful. I don’t know how to tackle the problem. I created several test builds which would dump out information to help me but never could isolate the problem.
I have a couple more questions...I tried to find these option myself, but had no luck.
Is there a way to edit the "Category" and "Manufacture" list?
ie...I create a category named "concentrate" but what to delete it or rename it to "Stone"
Also with manufactures... I need to delete and rename some.
Finally, what are the benefits of using the "Folder Name" tab when updating a ingredient? and how does it work?
I apologies for all the questions, but I want to be efficient and know everything about this calculator.

Thanks,
VapnJunkie
As described in a follow-up post, manufacturers can be updated and categories are auto-deleted when no longer referenced. Let me look into an option that would allow a category to be renamed.

I noticed a post by @Hoggy that I can't find to reply to. The post referenced remembering window sizes and placement. The calculator should be remembering that last size and placement of a window and restoring it the next time it is opened. Is that not happening?

There was also some discussion about listing ingredients/recipes and Excel. You may not have noticed but when you export a recipe (or recipes) to Excel, a second tab is created in the Excel spreadsheet with all of the ingredients listed.
Also, in the last version I added an option to “Tools->Build/generate custom report”. I provided two sample reports, one for recipes and one for ingredients. This option will allow you to select which ingredient or recipe values that you want written to a text file. This option may be useful for people who do not have Excel. The file is a text file that can be viewed in something such as notepad and since the text is tab delimited, you could also import the text file into something such as Excel.
 

Boxster

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Specific gravity is a ratio. For an actual definition and explanation you can read this: Specific Gravity. In the more real-world terms of the average DIYer it is comparing the weight of water (given a value of 1milligram/milliliter) to the same volume of the ingredient in question. If it weighs less you will see values of less than 1 (e.g. 0.923), or if it weighs more than water it will have value greater than 1 (e.g. 1.264).

@Capt.shay .shay has compiled a pretty commonly accepted list of accepted "average" weights for common ingredients like PG, VG, and nic at various strengths and bases here in his measuring by weight tutorial.

DISCLAIMER: everything following is MY opinion, and mine alone. I encourage all who read it to question it all, do their own research, and come to their own conclusions. The following are only my own conclusions to this point and may well change.

In my mind (and I am only speaking for me) the biggest/first one to throw calculations off is VG; simply because it most often has the greatest difference compared to water (water being equal to 1 while VG is equal to 1.26) and it often is one of, if not the, single biggest percentage of a recipe. If you have your VG value set to 1 gram/milliliter instead of 1.26 grams/milliliter you are going to be 19% short of your total VG volume. If you are mixing high VG recipes it can throw your end result noticeably out of wack.

Flavors are a tuffy. Every flavor is going to be a little bit different depending on what is actually used to make the flavor concentrate. Flavors with a lot of alcohol will weigh less than 1. Others can weigh more. The base/carrier of the concentrate can also have a substantial affect. Those made with PG as the carrier (most common) will be lighter than those made with VG (less common but becoming more available and popular).

Most DIYers who measure by weight will input a value of 1.038 grams/milliliter (give or take a couple of hundredths)for PG, and a value of 1.26 grams/milliliter (again give or take a couple of hundredths) for VG, and a third value specific to the nicotine concentrate they are using (see the list generously provided by Capt.shay).

Then for flavor; DIYer's will do 1 of three things (listed from most common action taken to least common <note that I said "common;" not "correct" or "accurate">):
1) Give all flavors a common value of 1g/mL. This is easiest and the highs can "kinda/sorta" balance out the lows. As this is the most common practice; it makes sharing recipes the most 1:1 repeatable.

2) Give all PG based concentrates the same value as PG (1.038g/mL) and all VG based concentrates the same value as VG (1.26)... with the feeling that it gets them a little closer to the truth. Whether they are right or wrong really boils down to the individual ingredient. Not as common a practice as #1 but still common. Also will start to introduce minor variations when sharing recipes with those using other methods.

3) Research each ingredient for a MSD record (or similar) that will state a specific gravity for the ingredient in question and then use that value. This is probably a little closer to "accurate/true" SG than 1 or 2 but harder to find. Some vendors are quite open to sharing this info while others publish nothing; leading to choosing one of the other options for select ingredients. So it is going to be real hit and miss and will introduce further discrepancies when sharing recipes. Much less popular than #1 or #2 as it requires a LOT more work with not a lot of extra benefit.

4) I guess, for thoroughness, I should mention a fourth option (though I haven't heard anyone say they actually do this) would be to physically measure out and weigh each and every flavor concentrate in one's personal inventory. Has potential to be most accurate but you are, at the same time, potentially introducing the greatest chance for error; as it is completely at the mercy of the quality, and condition, of the measurer's equipment and the care with which they carry out the measurements.

AND... none of this takes in to account the correctness/accuracy of one's actual scale (how/if it is calibrated, it's designed resolution meaning acceptable variance which is often displayed as a +/- value) OR environmental conditions (primarily temperature, and secondarily atmospheric pressure/height above sea level), OR the acceptable variation of each batch of said ingredient from the manufacturer. Even standard ingredients like PG and VG aren't really standard. One vendor's VG will weigh slightly different than another vendor's VG.

You can see how quickly a person can get lost in the petty, minuscule, details of being "accurate." This is why the majority will settle on an "average" value and move on.

Please understand; I am not suggesting one way is "more right" than another. Neither am I sitting in judgement of anyone doing ANYTHING. What ever works best for you IS YOUR right way.

Remember that DIY is closer to cooking than it is to pharmacology. When was the last time you, or your Mother, or ANY professional chef you know/have seen, has checked the accuracy of their measuring cups or spoons? The one exception I can think of m i g h t be a professional baker who is dependent on his/her scale.

Bottom line is: "Close enough for you is close enough."

Cheers! :D

Great write-up @IDJoel !
If you don't write for a living you've missed your calling.
Seriously you should consider writing a book.

Mixing is less about accuracy, and more about consistent repeat-ability.
 

VapnJunkie

Full Member
Sep 26, 2016
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Specific gravity is a ratio. For an actual definition and explanation you can read this: Specific Gravity. In the more real-world terms of the average DIYer it is comparing the weight of water (given a value of 1milligram/milliliter) to the same volume of the ingredient in question. If it weighs less you will see values of less than 1 (e.g. 0.923), or if it weighs more than water it will have value greater than 1 (e.g. 1.264).

@Capt.shay .shay has compiled a pretty commonly accepted list of accepted "average" weights for common ingredients like PG, VG, and nic at various strengths and bases here in his measuring by weight tutorial.

DISCLAIMER: everything following is MY opinion, and mine alone. I encourage all who read it to question it all, do their own research, and come to their own conclusions. The following are only my own conclusions to this point and may well change.

In my mind (and I am only speaking for me) the biggest/first one to throw calculations off is VG; simply because it most often has the greatest difference compared to water (water being equal to 1 while VG is equal to 1.26) and it often is one of, if not the, single biggest percentage of a recipe. If you have your VG value set to 1 gram/milliliter instead of 1.26 grams/milliliter you are going to be 19% short of your total VG volume. If you are mixing high VG recipes it can throw your end result noticeably out of wack.

Flavors are a tuffy. Every flavor is going to be a little bit different depending on what is actually used to make the flavor concentrate. Flavors with a lot of alcohol will weigh less than 1. Others can weigh more. The base/carrier of the concentrate can also have a substantial affect. Those made with PG as the carrier (most common) will be lighter than those made with VG (less common but becoming more available and popular).

Most DIYers who measure by weight will input a value of 1.038 grams/milliliter (give or take a couple of hundredths)for PG, and a value of 1.26 grams/milliliter (again give or take a couple of hundredths) for VG, and a third value specific to the nicotine concentrate they are using (see the list generously provided by Capt.shay).

Then for flavor; DIYer's will do 1 of three things (listed from most common action taken to least common <note that I said "common;" not "correct" or "accurate">):
1) Give all flavors a common value of 1g/mL. This is easiest and the highs can "kinda/sorta" balance out the lows. As this is the most common practice; it makes sharing recipes the most 1:1 repeatable.

2) Give all PG based concentrates the same value as PG (1.038g/mL) and all VG based concentrates the same value as VG (1.26)... with the feeling that it gets them a little closer to the truth. Whether they are right or wrong really boils down to the individual ingredient. Not as common a practice as #1 but still common. Also will start to introduce minor variations when sharing recipes with those using other methods.

3) Research each ingredient for a MSD record (or similar) that will state a specific gravity for the ingredient in question and then use that value. This is probably a little closer to "accurate/true" SG than 1 or 2 but harder to find. Some vendors are quite open to sharing this info while others publish nothing; leading to choosing one of the other options for select ingredients. So it is going to be real hit and miss and will introduce further discrepancies when sharing recipes. Much less popular than #1 or #2 as it requires a LOT more work with not a lot of extra benefit.

4) I guess, for thoroughness, I should mention a fourth option (though I haven't heard anyone say they actually do this) would be to physically measure out and weigh each and every flavor concentrate in one's personal inventory. Has potential to be most accurate but you are, at the same time, potentially introducing the greatest chance for error; as it is completely at the mercy of the quality, and condition, of the measurer's equipment and the care with which they carry out the measurements.

AND... none of this takes in to account the correctness/accuracy of one's actual scale (how/if it is calibrated, it's designed resolution meaning acceptable variance which is often displayed as a +/- value) OR environmental conditions (primarily temperature, and secondarily atmospheric pressure/height above sea level), OR the acceptable variation of each batch of said ingredient from the manufacturer. Even standard ingredients like PG and VG aren't really standard. One vendor's VG will weigh slightly different than another vendor's VG.

You can see how quickly a person can get lost in the petty, minuscule, details of being "accurate." This is why the majority will settle on an "average" value and move on.

Please understand; I am not suggesting one way is "more right" than another. Neither am I sitting in judgement of anyone doing ANYTHING. What ever works best for you IS YOUR right way.

Remember that DIY is closer to cooking than it is to pharmacology. When was the last time you, or your Mother, or ANY professional chef you know/have seen, has checked the accuracy of their measuring cups or spoons? The one exception I can think of m i g h t be a professional baker who is dependent on his/her scale.

Bottom line is: "Close enough for you is close enough."

Cheers! :D
Nice write up...very well done.
 

IDJoel

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Let me look into this. The reason this is happening is that the ingredient dropdown is sorted by Ingredient type (Other is first followed by Flavors) and then with the ingredient type it is sorted by ingredient name. Alphabetically your "Distilled Water" is the first "Other" ingredient type. Then, the first ingredient in the sorted list is selected.
Thank you sir! :thumbs:
The reason you can't sort by Manufacturer or Folder name is that they are dropdown list (a windows thing). Let me look into replicating those to columns but the replicated columns will be read-only and only display the current value (rather than a dropdown list). This will then allow the column title to be clicked and sorted.
Thanks. As I said previously; it doesn't have to be the Ingredient Editor. If it is easier to add an extra column for "folder name" to the "Current Inventory" display (like you have the Manufacturer column)... that would work just fine for me. I understand the Ingredient Editor is kind of the heart of the program and I don't want to make you needlessly fuss with it. :oops:
 
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