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New Guy Desperately Needs Help With Steam Engine and Coil

Discussion in 'Coil Builds' started by Celt1, Mar 6, 2018.

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  1. Celt1

    Celt1 Senior Member Verified Member

    Mar 6, 2018
    USA
    I am new to coil building, and following the advice I see to use Steam Engine for coil calculations, I tried it out, but am mystified by the results. I have a Digiflavor Siren 2 tank coming this week (actually several), along with a roll of SS316L 26 gauge coil wire. My goal for this MTL tank is to make a coil somewhere around 1.0-1.3 Ohms.

    In Steam Engine when I select the SS316L material, 26 Gauge, single coil, 1 Ohm target, 2.5 mm inner diameter coil, and leave the leg length at the default 5mm, I get a result of 16 wraps. Is that correct?

    Just from what I have read from other builds it seems like way too many wraps , and perhaps impossible to use physically with that build deck. Am I using Steam Engine incorrectly?

    I'll be using the tank on a Think Vape Finder DNA75C TC Box Mod, and want a relatively low wattage using temperature controlled mode. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
     
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  2. Izan

    Izan Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 1, 2012
    Mallorca, Spain
    Hi and welcome,
    On a regulated device, resistance is not so important.
    I would suggest some 28AWG if you are committed to a 1Ω coil.

    Cheers
    I
     
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  3. AzPlumber

    AzPlumber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2011
    Arizona
    26 gauge SS is best suited for lower resistance, use 28 to 30 gauge SS wire
     
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  4. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    ...or use kanthal
     
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  5. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I use 28 gauge SS for almost all my (higher resistance, MTL RTAs). It's easy enough to work with and you won't need as many wraps. You kind of have to tailor your wire type to your coil needs.

    Izan gave me that advice when I was first starting out, you should heed it :) It got me to my "happy place" quickly and easily.

    Anna
     
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  6. Celt1

    Celt1 Senior Member Verified Member

    Mar 6, 2018
    USA
    Thank you very much for your help guys (and gal), well I am sure a 100 ft. roll of 26 gauge will come in handy at some point ;) .. Hey I'm just learning, so my mistakes are no biggie. I guess I could also use it at a resistance of something like .6 Ohms with 9 wraps. It looks like 28 gauge will indeed be a better choice. I also had ordered:

    Vandy Vape Superfine MTL Specialty Wire Spool - 10 Feet - Ni80 Fused Clapton
    3.5 Ohms per foot, 30ga x 2(=)+38ga

    Vandy Vape Superfine MTL Specialty Wire Spool - 10 Feet - SS Fused Clapton Wire
    2.37 Ohms per Foot, 30ga x 2(=)+38ga

    Figuring out how to use Steam Engine with those wires should be a challenge, lol. Would the Ni80 Clapton be suitable for TC?

    I'll have to make a quick trip for some 28 Gauge SS316L, as I hope to have the Mod and tanks by Wednesday.
    Again thanks so much for your helpful and prompt responses!
     
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  7. mcclintock

    mcclintock Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2014
    You need context. A 1-1.3 ohm, 28 gauge Kanthal coil does imply a classic MTL coil. But the SS316 coil of that size comes out about .7 ohm. Or you could do #26 SS316 .4-.7 ohm depending on how big you want it.

    Interesting "superfine" clapton you're ordering, but it's still a big wire, relatively. No Nichrome 80 is not a TC material.
     
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  8. Celt1

    Celt1 Senior Member Verified Member

    Mar 6, 2018
    USA
    I think I am making progress. between the coils, wicking, and figuring out optimal settings for my box mod, things are definitely beginning to taste better. I think locking the resistance in temp control mode has helped a lot. Taking your advice I have stayed with the plain SS316LL wires (using 28 gauge right now) to this point.
     
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  9. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    ... or if TC isn't in the equation, NiChrome 80.
     
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  10. Celt1

    Celt1 Senior Member Verified Member

    Mar 6, 2018
    USA
    I am liking TC so far, but I have some Ni80 fused clapton on hand, and will be trying it.
     
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  11. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Sounds Good.

    And don't get too Hung Up and needing to make Coils at a certain Ohms if you are going to use them on a Regulated Device. Because you can Fine Tune the Hit you get with the Wattage.

    So if a 3mm 5 ~7 Wrap Coil comes in a little Lower Ohm than you would Normally use, No Problem. As long as you are using a Regulated Mod.

    Heck, You might even Like it better than a 1.0 Build.
     
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  12. Celt1

    Celt1 Senior Member Verified Member

    Mar 6, 2018
    USA
    As far as the number of wraps with the Siren 2, part of the issue for me has been to get the coil covering all three of the little air holes on the deck. The screw attachment points for the coil ends are a bit closer together than what might be best to do that, so I'll be trying a small inward dogleg bend in the "legs" the next build to help that with a spaced coil. Don't know of that description makes any sense :blush:
     
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  13. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I don't have a Siren 2. But it looks like a Pretty Straightforward Bottom Airflow RTA/GTA.

    For Me, I don't like to go over 7 Wraps much. And I've Never had very good results with less than 5 Wraps.

    If I had one, I would probably start with a Build that looks like this...

    [​IMG]

    Maybe Single Wire 26ga SS (or NiChrome 80 for Power Mode Only) with a 3mm ID for a Regulated Mod.

    I wouldn't really worry about if the Coil Completely covers the Air Holes or Not. I'd just build it and see How it Vapes.
     
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  14. Celt1

    Celt1 Senior Member Verified Member

    Mar 6, 2018
    USA
    I have done a contact coil with around 7 wraps, it works fine, except the flavor I get was not what I was hoping for. So at this point I'm starting to experiment to see what brings out the best results with the Siren 2. You are right about it being a straightforward tank to build on, being a newb that made it an attractive choice for me.


    I wanted to try a higher Ohm coil, so today I did a SS316L 28ga spaced 3mm coil, 14 wraps. It came out at 1.4 Ohms. It was a bit of a challenge to do spaced with that many wraps, and make it fit, but some finagling got it there. One advantage of using a longer coil with the Siren 2 than might be typical is that the potential for the wick touching the middle portion with the air holes is appreciably decreased, which folk have said can be a source of leaking.

    I also wicked with Rayon for the first time, and followed the advice of a very snug fit in the coil itself, with the tails on either side thinned down to less than half that.

    Just trying it, I think it has promise, good flavor so far with Queenside juice.
     
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  15. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    That's the Key Right there. Experimenting and Finding what works Best for You.

    :thumb:
     
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  16. Celt1

    Celt1 Senior Member Verified Member

    Mar 6, 2018
    USA
    I've tried a number of coil variations at this point, and am seeing quite a bit of progress finally. The main issue was not getting adequate flavor. In general, coils over 1 Ohm - say between 1.2 and 1.6 Ohms are working best. I am using SS 316L in 28ga, which means quite a few wraps - 11 to 16, with 12 beginning to seem like a go to amount. Also spaced coils seem to make a distinct difference.

    I've tried Mugen, Koh Gen Do, and Graham Rayon for wicking. To me the Rayon gives the best flavor. Wicking the coil with Rayon is a bit trickier, but a video on this really helped a lot, "fluffing" and then slicing the top perhaps 2/3 off by the coil as he demonstrates has worked for me. The technical quality on the video is not the best, but worth viewing if you are considering Rayon:

    I'll keep trying different things, but at least I am getting results with the Siren 2, so it is definitely a tank is capable of producing great flavor if it is "dialed in". It is just taking me awhile due to my inexperience with vaping and builds.

    One thing I am surprised by is that so far I have zero leaking problems (based on some posts I had read there were some people having issues with this). Perhaps something in production has been worked out from earlier tanks, but in any event mine have been trouble free to this point (knock on wood).
     
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  17. Fidola13

    Fidola13 Prepper Verified Member

    Supporting member
    Dec 20, 2017
    Boston
    Thanks for including that video. I’m new to building as well and made my 1st attempt yesterday also using rayon. Bit I left the tails too full. I was afraid of taking too much off but from what I’m reading I’d be better off with less than more using rayon.

    Enjoy
     
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  18. Celt1

    Celt1 Senior Member Verified Member

    Mar 6, 2018
    USA
    I have not gotten it down pat yet, though I don't hesitate now to pull a wick right away and redo if I am not getting a good result. Rayon is cheap, and the more I practice, the better I will hopefully get. :blush:
     
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  19. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    As long as a coil works like you want it to, it don't have to be purdy. LOL

    But I really came on to say that I have 26 gauge 10 wrap 2.5 dia in a siren and it almost covers the holes. May have to space them just a little tho not much. Comes in right around 1.0 ohm and by the time I get it installed and vaping sometimes it reads just under that. But still vapes great and has plenty of flavor.

    :)
     
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  20. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    For me when using rayon, its best to have the inside of the coil stuffed with rayon but still be able to slide the wicking a little without distorting the coil. If the wicking begins to pull on the coil then either stop(if tails are an ok length) and make sure to put plenty of ejuice on that coil before installing on the tank. On the tails, it depends on the tank. On the siren I thin the bottom a little to just touch the deck or may leave just the littlest space.
    If you get any leaking on the siren, then trim a little of the bottom of the tail where it just meets the deck, and since your wick is already saturated with juice, take the smallest littlest piece of the rayon you already snipped(dry) from earlier and carefully layer a bit near the coil where the wick just starts going down the side of the deck. Doesn't take much to beef that up a little but you don't want to use so much as to not be able to get the tank back together. Since the tails are already saturated with juice this layering tip allows the dry piece to just be patted down carefully and it will adhere to the existing rayon and absorb the juice and stays put in place. I use a small screwdriver or an 18 gauge needle to pat the dry rayon carefully onto the existing tails.


    If your tails are way to short to hit the deck, you can also add rayon to lengthen them but instead of putting on the outside of the existing tail, try to separate bottom and top (somewhere around halfway down the existing tails) and insert a small longer piece there and allow to absorb the juice.

    YMMV

    :)
     
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