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New Illinois Law

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by Rymanjan, Sep 24, 2013.

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  1. Rymanjan

    Rymanjan Full Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Chicago
    My brother sells ejuices with 0 nic. Starting January 1 2014 ecigs and ejuices will be regulated to those over the age of 18. While the law states that alternative nicotine delivery systems will be regulated, no where does it mention the legal status of eliquid without nicotine. With no nicotine, the ejuice would not be considered a nicotine/tobacco product, but the legal system in Illinois often fudges it's way to include more than what the laws state. I bring this up because I worry about his legal safety in the matter, as he doesn't card people he sells to (no reason to at the moment really). Moral issues with this aside, I told him that he should start carding people because I'm positive high school kids are buying from him but he insists that the law won't affect him because there's no controlled or restricted substances in his product. He doesn't sell batteries or attys or anything, just the juice (he does it as a side job to earn a few extra bucks a week for his own vaping needs). What are your views on the matter? The law itself is very short and vague and can be found by googling ecig law Illinois.
     
  2. bluecat

    bluecat Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2012
    Cincy
    This I think was in May. Couldn't find an updated piece.

    "To address any future nicotine product developments, the proposal would also ban selling minors any “alternative nicotine product,” such as a device or product that does not contain tobacco but allows for the ingestion of nicotine.

    The measure now moves back to the House for further consideration."

    Illinois Senate approves electronic cigarette ban for minors

    Edit.. here is Illinois HB 2250. looks like it is still in there.3

    http://openstates.org/il/bills/98th/HB2250/documents/ILD00130720/
     
  3. Rymanjan

    Rymanjan Full Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Chicago
    Key word being nicotine of which there is none in the juice. He's not a stupid guy, just stubborn lol he read the law and being the wannabe lawyer he is, he sticks to the fact that there's no "ingesting of nicotine" in his juice
    15 "Electronic cigarette" or "e-cigarette" means a
    16 battery-operated device that contains cartridges filled
    17 with a combination of nicotine, flavor, and chemicals that
    18 are turned into vapor which is inhaled by the user.
    Legally no nicotine juice does not constitute as a component of an ecig or as an alternative nicotine substance
     
  4. Vapoor eyes er

    Vapoor eyes er ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2011
    Toronto, Ont.
    This Law was specifically passed to keep electronics cigarettes out of the hands of the under 18's. Does he have a biz license? Does he pay State and Federal taxes? Is he keeping books? Are the juices mixed in a certified lab?
    ALL IMHO but they'll be all over him like White on Rice.
     
  5. bluecat

    bluecat Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2012
    Cincy
    Yes I understand that. Stubborn I like. Kinda like me. Still "alternative"... they let it mean could contain. Still.. first time offense is probably a warning if anything. Can't see a cop pulling over and saying "u selling 0 nic e liquid?". Are you over 16 and have a license to distribute and checking ID's of these people?
     
  6. madqatter

    madqatter Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 14, 2013
    Virginia
    If this is the actual wording of the bill/law, even an empty tank without any juice would be restricted to adults because it is "a device that allows for the ingestion of nicotine." I would not assume the law doesn't apply to your brother.

    Of course, the language used above would require that the sale of potato mashers also be regulated, but I doubt that's going to happen.
     
  7. bluecat

    bluecat Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2012
    Cincy
    Aye it states it in the current version of the bill. At least the one on the link. Chewing gum could be included that as well. According to the bill you must be 18 to sell it too or over 16 in your parents smoke shop.

    I guess it all comes down to what is is the definition of "tobacco".

    Also there will be an age certification via 3rd party for online sales.

    12 (2) for sales made through the Internet or other remote
    13 sales methods, performing an age verification through an
    14 independent, third-party age verification service that
    15 compares information available from public records to the
    16 personal information entered by the person during the
    17 ordering process that establishes the person is 18 years of
    18 age or older.

    Here are the fines.


    (a) Any person who violates subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-6)
    22 of Section 1 or Section 1.5 of this Act is guilty of a petty
    23 offense and for the first offense shall be fined $200, $400 for
    24 the second offense in a 12-month period, and $600 for the third
    25 or any subsequent offense in a 12-month period.
     
  8. madqatter

    madqatter Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 14, 2013
    Virginia
    "A device that allows for the ingestion of nicotine" includes the pots I make eggplant curries in, the dishes I serve it on, and the forks we eat it with. That's one helluva law. :)
     
  9. Rymanjan

    Rymanjan Full Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Chicago
    That's Illinois for ya lol I can guarantee someone will go to court for it before it actually gets specific. I just don't want it to be him
     
  10. bluecat

    bluecat Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2012
    Cincy
    200 bucks for first offense. Just crank up the sales price and it will cover the cost of the ticket. Unless he is under 18 then he will be doing community service and a 25 dollar fine... Then have to enlist in a smokers education or youth diversion program.

    Yeah there are 2 place I will not live.. One is Illinois. :)
     
  11. Rymanjan

    Rymanjan Full Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Chicago
    The other's New York right? haha
     
  12. hnsenter

    hnsenter Moved On

    Sep 24, 2013
    California, USA
    I actually attended a workshop out of curiosity at ECC in California. The lawyer informed everyone that the e-juice, without nicotine, could be labeled as a "drug" according to federal laws. It would seem that the general consensus is to not sell to minors to maintain industrial integrity. My friend owns a shop and he cards everyone that purchases from him. Although there aren't any specific laws that define or regulate e-juice, but it would seem that it is best for all businesses within the industry to maintain morally guided code of conduct to help preserve the industry, especially because there are so many groups out there that doing their best to shut it down!
     
  13. szot

    szot Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    You may want to discuss this and move this thread to the Legislation news area of these forums..

    Legislation News
     
  14. Obi Wan Vapori

    Obi Wan Vapori Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 4, 2013
    Saco,ME,USA
    Me... Illinois, New York, California, Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusetts and others if things keep going the way they are.
     
  15. unknown_shooter

    unknown_shooter Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2013
    Phoenix AZ
    It's obviously a witch hunt, but I'm not exactly sure why anyone would volunteer to be the "witch"?
    All it takes is one hick sheriff & one stupid prosecutor & he will have legal bills that far exceed any gains from sales - even if he is "technically" in the right..
    Prosecutors frequently "stack" charges, just to smear a defendant & make a plea deal more likely - "contributing to the delinquency", "marketing adulterated products", selling "drug paraphernalia".. (it doesn't matter if the charges are *accurate*, that's not the point!)..

    Think back a few years to the case in Texas of the inflatable sheep - 20 guys in swat gear for a blow-up sheep..

    http://www.austinchronicle.com/features/2000-08-11/78186/
     
  16. Sundodger

    Sundodger Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 22, 2013
    All 57 States
    But then us newbies can't comment:) Any way I think his bro might want to get legal all around, it's going to cost him more eventually and harm the interest of all that are following the law, no matter how wide open the law is written, CYA is always the way to go. And even if you wanted to fight it in court, what would the eventual costs be? The State of Il and all the associated anti-vaping groups have way more time and money than the average part-time business man. Good luck to him, hope he sees the light and not the flashlight.
    He needs to leave the fight over the law to others that are more prepared and just sell legally until it's settled.
     
  17. bluecat

    bluecat Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2012
    Cincy
    Spent 2 to 3 years in Queens. It wasn't bad. People are just impatient as all get out. Upstate New York is beautiful.

    Nah other is California. :)
     
  18. XeniaMike

    XeniaMike Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 21, 2013
    Xenia, Ohio
    Illinois is an odd place, having once lived there. They can't get a handle on crime in Chicago, but BY GOLLY we gotta do something about e-cigs!! Typical. Like a guy who's pants are on fire wondering if he DVR'd dancing with the stars.
     
  19. Screamin Eagle

    Screamin Eagle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    Maryland
    The whole problem is that they can come out, accuse your brother of offending this law, and levy a $200 fine on him. In this case he will have to spend more then $200 to defend his side. They, on the other hand, will use the infinite tax dollars they get to prosecute it. They have no problem spending thousands of dollars to collect a few hundred.
     
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