New Jersey - Paramus County

[LaceyUnderall]

NorthJersey.com: Health board wants to stamp out e-cigs

Some pertinent details found through VF:

At the October 26th meeting, the Board will introduce the ordinance. After that, it will be published in the local newspaper. It will be considered for final passage on Monday, November 23rd at 8:00 PM. At the November meeting, there will be a public hearing on the ordinance, and public comment will be accepted. Each speaker will be limited to two minutes. It is not necessary to announce your intention to speak in advance.

John Hopper
Health Officer/Director

 

[BigJimW]

Meh, the Medowlands smells like horse dung airdropped in the middle of a swamp, so whatever north Jersey does is nothing to be concerned about.

And they're worried about the e-cig. They should be more worried about air quality.

 

[mm485]

Great - just great.

Someone else (I'm so sorry I can't remember who) posted this earlier saying that he had contact with their local newspaper to try to put a halt to this nonsense. Of course I'm worried because once it starts in North Jersey it just works its way down...to where I am.

Guess I'm going to have to figure out a way to go trail blazing...this needs to stop.

 

[mm485]

Meh, the Medowlands smells like horse dung airdropped in the middle of a swamp, so whatever north Jersey does is nothing to be concerned about.

And they're worried about the e-cig. They should be more worried about air quality.

Hey...it's only Newark that smells

 

[Treece]

Meh, the Medowlands smells like horse dung airdropped in the middle of a swamp, so whatever north Jersey does is nothing to be concerned about.

And they're worried about the e-cig. They should be more worried about air quality.

Agreed! They should be more worried about the air quality!

Too bad they're not.

Time to unite, folks ... we're going to fall like dominoes otherwise.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Great - just great.

Someone else (I'm so sorry I can't remember who) posted this earlier saying that he had contact with their local newspaper to try to put a halt to this nonsense. Of course I'm worried because once it starts in North Jersey it just works its way down...to where I am.

Guess I'm going to have to figure out a way to go trail blazing...this needs to stop.

mm485 -

If you feel the urge to step forward and do something and want some guidance or help or whatever, please feel free to PM me. I can help you.

 

[SLDS181]

Information is being put together regarding this, unfortunately, links to those sites seem to have been added to the profanity filter.

Several people are planning to attend the meeting, and are preparing comments. Mr. Hopper can readily be reached by email so send your comments his way.

 

[one_raven]

Paramus is not a county.
Paramus is a city in Bergen County and it has more major malls than anywhere else in the state (perhaps the country).

 

[mm485]

mm485 -

If you feel the urge to step forward and do something and want some guidance or help or whatever, please feel free to PM me. I can help you.

Thank you, Lacey. I sent you a PM.

 

[AKs0n-]

Being someone who resides in northern NJ, this type of ban, does not bother me.
( I think it's actually the NJ LAW now )
I've thought bout it from the other side of the fence and the 'ban' makes sense.
If there are a good amount of ppl all running around, in public places where smoking is ilegal, all exhaling what looks to be like 'smoke'.
How would the authorities be able to differentiate who is smoking real cigarettes from those smoking electronic cigarettes without having to stop and inspect every single person.
It would just become a big hassle and to this day we can't say with a 110% certainty that the exhaled vapors are harmless to others around us. That itself needs more testing alone.

I'll just vape where others smoke freely, no problem.

 

[ChipCurtis]

Being someone who resides in northern NJ, this type of ban, does not bother me.
( I think it's actually the NJ LAW now )
I've thought bout it from the other side of the fence and the 'ban' makes sense.
If there are a good amount of ppl all running around, in public places where smoking is ilegal, all exhaling what looks to be like 'smoke'.
How would the authorities be able to differentiate who is smoking real cigarettes from those smoking electronic cigarettes without having to stop and inspect every single person.
It would just become a big hassle and to this day we can't say with a 110% certainty that the exhaled vapors are harmless to others around us. That itself needs more testing alone.

I'll just vape where others smoke freely, no problem.

These kind of considerations are going on in states all over the country right now. But N.J. was the first state in the nation to quickly hop onto an outright public-spaces ban. Without so much as a peep or a public debate. Is this simply because N.J. is a crowded state?

Really, draconian laws like this get passed only because people say "oh well, it doesn't affect me". And then, somewhere down the road, something that they pass WILL affect you, and ONLY THEN will you be out there screaming in the streets about the politicians overstepping their bounds.

I grew up in N.J. and sometimes go back there to visit family. Apart from insane drivers all over the place, it is like living in a sardine tin.... nearly any involuntary biological function that you perform is being watched over by government agences now. Just glad I'm outta there, can breathe cleaner air, and can vape in my place of work.

If N.J. politicians really cared about air quality, they'd do something about it.

 

[AKs0n-]

These kind of considerations are going on in states all over the country right now. But N.J. was the first state in the nation to quickly hop onto an outright public-spaces ban. Without so much as a peep or a public debate. Is this simply because N.J. is a crowded state?

Really, draconian laws like this get passed only because people say "oh well, it doesn't affect me". And then, somewhere down the road, something that they pass WILL affect you, and ONLY THEN will you be out there screaming in the streets about the politicians overstepping their bounds.

I grew up in N.J. and sometimes go back there to visit family. Apart from insane drivers all over the place, it is like living in a sardine tin.... nearly any involuntary biological function that you perform is being watched over by government agences now. Just glad I'm outta there, can breathe cleaner air, and can vape in my place of work.

If N.J. politicians really cared about air quality, they'd do something about it.

I hear ya & understand where your coming from. I would absolutely LOVE to vape @ work 24/7 and to a certain extent, I actually do so now.
I vape indoors while on break time, off the clock. My co-workers understand what the device is cuz I've been trying to garner interests for the device from fellow smokers.
I stumbled upon that new law but I would bet its safe to say 99.99% of everybody else living in NJ either don't care or don't know that law even exists.
I also don't like unecessary attention so I tend to be discrete with how/when I vape.

I'm just saying that law is more of a "Better to be Safe than Sorry" rule.

As a smoker for 15yrs its not a law I'm unfamiliar with and its a pretty fair law IMO.

 

[ChipCurtis]

I'm just saying that law is more of a "Better to be Safe than Sorry" rule.

I like most of what you said, but I just cannot abide by the above reasoning at all.

I hate to be overly dramatic, but it reminds me of Joseph Goebbels annoucements over Nazi radio in the 1930s: "All Jews shall be restricted from holding public office, opening new businesses, and intermingling with 'normal citizens' on public streets". His reasoning: "It's better to be safe than sorry."

 

[AKs0n-]

I like most of what you said, but I just cannot abide by the above reasoning at all.

I hate to be overly dramatic, but it reminds me of Joseph Goebbels annoucements over Nazi radio in the 1930s: "All Jews shall be restricted from holding public office, opening new businesses, and intermingling with 'normal citizens' on public streets". His reasoning: "It's better to be safe than sorry."

If research confirms 10, 20 or so years from now that 2nd hand vapor is harmful.

Then what...

We all say " I'm sorry "?

I refuse to vape around people who do not smoke ( in confined areas/open areas idm )

I don't wanna feel guilty down the road..

I'd abide by that as a personal 'Law' even w/o politicians enforcing it.

 

[AKs0n-]

I vape indoors while on break time...

Just to clarify:

I treat my vapor habit as I would my smoking habit.
a) I keep a distance between myself & others
b) I don't blow vapors towards anyone's direction
c) I keep inhaled as long as possible so I exhale less clouds of vapor

Yea I am technically breaking the new law but..
that's what i've been doing before I knew of any law.

Law or no Law, I don't feel entitled to possibly
endangering anybody else's health...
only my own.

 

[ChipCurtis]

Just to clarify:

I treat my vapor habit as I would my smoking habit.
a) I keep a distance between myself & others
b) I don't blow vapors towards anyone's direction
c) I keep inhaled as long as possible so I exhale less clouds of vapor

Yea I am technically breaking the new law but..
that's what i've been doing before I knew of any law.

Law or no Law, I don't feel entitled to possibly
endangering anybody else's health...
only my own.

I tend to follow your self-discipline strategy as well. I do not get "in your face" about it with anyone that I don't know really well. But I only do that, not out of fear of putting someone else at risk of this so-called "2nd hand vapor", but only to avoid setting-off an uneducated person into an anti-smoking/anti-vaping hysteria. That's all.

If you did more research into the e-cig, your fears about its possible harmfulness would pretty much be laid to rest. If you act like most people, who think that anyone with a bunch of letters after their name has the authority and knowledge of God, then you simply limit your freedoms and options.

Any sensible person who studies what's in an e-cig will see clearly that all the ingredients (except for the nicotine) are classified as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the FDA already. Propylene Glycol is found in most medicines and a hell of a lot of everyday foods.

Let's just say that modern politics is built upon the "fear of doing ANYTHING, fear of making ANY DECISION" at all, except when it comes to limiting citizen choice. Everything is a filibuster, because everything is a risk. Therefore, let no human progress happen -- it's too dangerous. It's this very mentality that the anti-ecig people are coming from.

I suppose if we're really going to be safe here, I should take away your right to drink Starbuck's in the morning because the caffiene it contains could be deadly to your health. And the steam coming from the top of the cup... hey that's not steam, that's dangerous 2nd hand vapor.

 

[AKs0n-]

The nicotine chemical in the exhaled vapors is what i'm speaking of.

I have done some research on nicotine itself. I was under the assumption

that it was a safe drug ( it very well could be, i'm no doctor ) but I have read it as

being labeled as - A) Toxic & B) Poisonous

My point wasn't really to debate weather 2nd hand vapor was safe or not.

I was rather just stating that the research that has been done so far is too limited, IMO.

If E-Cigs exist 10+ yrs from now & proven that 2nd hand vapor is harmless...

then i'd feel more confident.

 

[yvilla]

AKs0n, I'm going to quote a post of mine:

"There is no evidence that the exhaled vapor contains any significant amount of nicotine. The lungs are fantastic at extracting nicotine (this is why cigarettes are such an effective nicotine delivery device). We know that in the exhaled smoke from smokers, the level of nicotine is extremely low. Secondhand smoke itself does not expose nonsmokers to high levels of nicotine." And,

"Even if the vapor contained nicotine, it would be highly diluted by the time it reached the nonsmoker. The vapor dissipates almost instantly, and there is no evidence that there is any meaningful exposure to nicotine among nonsmoking bystanders."

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: Action on Smoking and Health Claims that "Secondhand" Electronic Cigarette Vapor Causes Heart Attacks in Bystanders

Dr. Murray Laugeson of Health New Zealand came to much the same conclusion in his October 2008 report on the safety of Ruyan ecigs. Again, based on his analysis of published data on nicotine absortion, but not actual data on ecig vapor, he states:

"Inhaled nicotine in cigarette smoke is over 98% absorbed, and so the exhaled mist of the e-cigarette is composed of propylene glycol, and probably contains almost no nicotine;"

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartr...t30-Oct-08.pdf

And finally, Dr. Joel Nitzkin, Chair of the Tobacco Control Task Force of the American Association of Public Health Physicians, has this to say, not necessarily specifically about nicotine but about second hand vapor overall:

"Smoking bans have been universally justified on the basis of the risk posed by environmental tobacco smoke to non-smokers. Most of the air pollution due to cigarettes is due to sidestream smoke – the smoke that curls off the end of the cigarette when no one is puffing on it. E-cigarettes have no sidestream smoke. E-cigarettes also have none of the toxic products of combustion produced by conventional cigarettes. It is therefore unreasonable to ban them on the basis of risk to non-smokers."

http://www.aaphp.org/special/joelstobac/ecigcontext.pdf

 

[AKs0n-]

Thank You Yvilla!

Now I feel ALOT better if I ever vape around non-smokers.