New Member + A bone to pick with the community

[Mutescream]

Addiction is one of those things that it is difficult to explain to someone that has never experienced it, on a magnitude of trying to explain artistic paintings to a blind person, or music to the deaf... With none of the inherent beauty that either of those two have.

I can't think of a single non-selfish reason to encourage someone that doesn't currently smoke to start vaping (e.g. join us, and become invested in keeping it legal).

I can conceive several non-selfish reasons to discourage someone from jumping into an addictive behavior, though. Avoid the circimstance of degrading your pride, and being controlled by something, and forced to pay the prices they decide to charge you. Avoid an unnecessary expense. Avoid being compelled to go outside to accomodate this new hunger. By extension, avoid the odd stares from people that just don't get what you are doing...

vaping is a cool and elegant solution to stop smoking. It's safer than smoking. However, even if it were incontravertably determined 100% safe, I wouldn't recommend it to those not already nic dependent.

This is mostly because there will always be people out there that feel the need to make things difficult for those that have behaviors different than their own. Why wish it on anyone that doesn't need to? Unless we could get a clear majority of the population vaping (and I don't see that happening), it wouldn't even effectively serve a selfish end.

 

[Bunnykiller]

If a non smoker/non vaper wanted to start vaping I would suggest 0 nic juice...
Since I already have the nic dependancy it just led into a nic type juice for me to get away from ciggies... which worked very well...
But I also realize that getting away from my 30 nic juice is going to be difficult too...
No reason to have someone with no dependancy on nic starting a dependancy
why make their life difficult when we have our own difficulties with nic...

 

[jd1978]

I have no personal experience with snuff so I will only say I doubt it is as addictive as smoking. You were a bit unclear about the next part. Are you saying that dipping Copenhagen caused you to have shakes? Or was there something else involved?

I smoked for 37 years. I then switched to vaping with nicotine for about nine months. By then I had slowly weaned myself off of it. A few months after that I felt I was really free of the cigarette addiction and would never smoke again.

I then went back to vaping nicotine for a month and then went off it again. I've stayed off since then. It was not addictive for me to vape nicotine for a month.

This experience is how I know nicotine is not addictive for me, but cigarettes are. A lot of long time vapers have an easy time lowering their nic levels if they try to, but not everyone. Almost anything can be addictive for some people. Sex, gambling, adrenaline, you name it and someone probably has an addiction to it. But for me and a lot of other people nicotine by itself is not addicting. I did my own research and along with my experience that's why I believe what I do.

Your opinion is completely valid for you and I am not even trying to change your mind. I posted to give you exposure to my viewpoint. It is one that is lost in a sea of smoking addiction research which all says 'nicotine is addictive'. The problem is they did not researched nicotine addiction, they researched cigarette addiction, which includes some 3,000 chemicals not found in nicotine. If this makes sense to you, you can chose to look further into it, or not

As I said in my previous post in this thread I don't think it's ethical to encourage people who have never smoked to take up vaping but not because of the nicotine addiction risk. I would help them do it only if they understood the health risks and still wanted to.

Peace and vape on

I was saying at the age of 12 my interest in girls took a turn. I tried to quit dipping cold turkey. Went into complete withdraw. That's when I turned to cigs.

 

[maflatoon]

No matter what we say, vaping is considered equal to smoking and it has caused many problems for us vapers because we are also treated like smokers. We need to change this mindset.

 

[3Hunna]

People who want to vape will have their own addictive tolerances. Some may easily get out of nicotine dependency, some may not. It is a cost to the wallet, it is a time consumer, it is mentally occupying but it is a lifestyle risk.

Let's back track a bit. Why did people start smoking tobacco years before during its origins. It was leisurely, it was relaxing, it made them feel good. Just like when we discovered the uses of alcohol (you got some cultures who swear by tequila to cure anything, whole cultures). It is when we realised the dangers that it was bad, to the point of plain packaging and campaigns against cigarettes, but people still smoke because it is available, it is legal, and it is relaxing.

The point I'm making is that humans have always wanted to find ways of putting them in a desired mental state whether through substance , consumption or things like meditation or even retail therapy. We've had the Chinese with their teas, hell the earliest use of weed was found in China. We've had the use of Kava Kava by cultures that swear by it. We especially have alcohol which some people swear a drink a day on a daily basis and is a worldwide staple in any country you go to for accommodation, catering and the humble home. We have people swear by retail therapy too. What I'm trying to say is, we all have our costs, addictions, remedies, stimulants, relaxants whether they be something we physically consume or we economically consume or that we physically perform with our body. The things that i mentioned all have one thing in common, the need for responsibility; to not overspend through retail therapy, to not over drink through alcohol, to not make chronic use of drugs. This model of responsibility of the things we want to do is the same that goes with vaping. it's addictive, relaxing and leisurely, but it's the user's responsibility and own risk (which is barely any risk) because there's a lot more that vaping has to offer than the nicotine addiction side of things (I, coming from a country where selling nicotine liquid is illegal easily live by this).

Sure there are problems with nicotine. It makes you irritated as hell if you don't get your fix and I get that. I've had my own nicotine juices from friends overseas. I guess because vaping is not as 2 dimensional as smoking where you have no choice in getting nictoine or not, that you can go try taper down to a 0 nic option when you decide to then completely stop if you choose to. Or you can maintain your addiction since maybe you enjoy quenching addictions or the head spin of high mg nicotine. That's the wonderful thing about vaping, if you're addicted you can always find some method to stop and if you don't want to stop you know that there's minimal risk behind it.

If someone asked me about vaping, I would be happy to lead them into it, given that I tell them about all the caveats about addiction first, probably even start them with 0 nic. It's a cost on people's pockets, but it is their responsibility to pay for it. If they feel they can't afford it, then it's up to them to save money on it or not buy into it at all or make more money. As long as they stay away from analogs and drug abuse and manage their money correctly, I'll be more than happy to help them start vaping.

 

[MikeNice81]

I Smoked a pack a day for 24 years. Not because it was fun, not because I was carefree and reckless (I outgrew that by the time I was 18 by which I'd been smoking for two years)...and I sure as heck cared about my health. But see there was this problem every time I tried to quit. Shakes, cold sweats, nausea, panic attacks, physical PAIN in the form of migraines and muscle spasms. My withdrawal was so bad in my first pregnancy myown Doc said to wait until AFTER birth to quit because it was likely to affect my pregnancy! (I was 19 then, 21 with my second)

Peer pressure by then? Non existent...noone I knew except my husband smoked, and he sure didn't pressure me to keep going. My best friend recently started vaping...I didn't look at it as anything but potential to be the right tool for the job. Patches, Gum, lozenges, drugs, those all failed me. Vaping changed my life.

My withdraw symptoms included cold like symptoms, the inability to concentrate on tasks, the inability to sleep, mood swings, lethargy, and depression. The depression would get so bad that I would spend two or three days not even wanting to get out of bed. Even slight things would be emotionally devastating. I would turn in to an emotional wreck from about 3 days out to 14 days out. I am not a person that has depression or emotional issues normally. When quitting the cigs it was a completely different world and quite scary.

Patches didn't help. I just smoked along with the patch. I was wearing the strongest patch I could get and still smoking a Black and Mild. I tried gum and had an equally strong addiction to the gum. I would pop a piece about every thirty minutes. Plus I would smoke.

My wife hounded me constantly about smoking and at times I would quit for six months or even a year. Then I would start right back up for weeks and the whole withdraw cycle would start over. That would cause me to grab another pack while saying, "I'll smoke just one to ease the symptoms." I would take about three days to smoke the pack and it would start again. Quitting again would take a month, at the least.

There were times when I had been smoke free for five or six months and still had to leave my cash or cards at home. I knew that if I didn't I would buy a pack. One of the reasons I started carrying a refillable water bottle was so that I didn't have to enter gas stations nearly as often. Staring at that wall of smokes always made me wonder what the new offerings tasted like and wanting to try one. Anybody that thinks smokers are doing it just because it is cool or rebellious has no clue what it is like.

I started smoking because It was a sign of being grown up. All of the adults I grew up around smoked when I was a kid. The only non-smoker adults I knew were my mom and one uncle. To me it was just a sign of being grown up. Not smoking would have been a bigger act of rebellion than starting. For me and my friends it was as much a part of growing up as getting your license or buying your first legal drink. Buying a pack of cigarettes was a rite of passage even though our parents warned us against it. Stealing your first cigarette from a parent's pack was a rite of passage. Smoking was a part of the culture.

Smokers don't smoke because they're stupid, careless, or for attitude. Smokers smoke because they are addicted. Anyone remember the big stink when it was discovered that tobacco companies were slowly but surely INCREASING the nic in cigarettes? (New ports were up to 3.2m by 2006). They created addicts and wanted to KEEP them. You might want to give the smokers you know a little more credit and benefit of the doubt.
(Burn In He Cigarettes: 1990-2014)

They are even adding "free base" nicotine. They are cooking up nicotine like crack to ensure it reached the nervous system faster and aided in addiction. You ever wonder why over time it felt like that smooth relaxation feeling hit quicker when you smoked that first one in the morning? That is the answer.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-cigarettes-may-be-more-addictive-588248.html

Some brands of cigarette are likely to be far more habit-forming than others because of the amount of highly addictive "freebase" nicotine they produce.

Scientists have found wide differences between different cigarette brands in the amount of freebase nicotine, which is quickly absorbed through the lungs and carried in the bloodstream to the brain.

Just as smoking "crack" causes vapourised ....... to reach the brain within seconds, freebase nicotine also has an almost instantaneous effect on the central nervous system, making addiction more likely.

The researchers, from the Oregon Health and Science University in Portland, compared 11 cigarette brands available in the US and found that some contained between 10 and 20 times higher levels of freebase nicotine than expected.

Brands were compared with a laboratory "reference" cigarette containing 1 per cent freebase nicotine. The results ranged from 1 per cent or 2 per cent to 36 per cent for a speciality brand called American Spirit. The popular Marlboro brand contained up to 9.6 per cent freebase nicotine. Other well-known brands included Camel (2.7 per cent), Winston (5 to 6.2 per cent) and Gauloises Blondes (5.7 to 7.5 per cent).

 

[Steelgirl]

I think if someone is an adult, they can make the decision for themselves.

I haven't smoked in 14 years (smoked a PAD or more from age 13 to almost 30). I was so quickly hooked that by the time I was 15 my mom bought me a carton of cigarettes a week because she'd rather do that than wonder where I was getting the money for them (or continue to steal hers!).

I took up vaping a few months ago because of the flavorings and because even though I was in no danger of smoking another analog ever again, I *liked* smoking. I just hated everything that came along with it.

My boyfriend has been an on-again-off-again smoker since he was a teen. He hadn't smoked in a couple of years but when I said "I think I might be interested in vaping" I barely had the sentence out before he was like "Okay, let's go!". So we both jumped in feet first and have a genuine love for vaping now.

My brother (47 this year) has never smoked but got into it recently independently from us. He called me yesterday because he was so excited about building a microcoil but didn't have anyone else to share it with. He lives with my mom.

My mom will be 80 this year and has smoked since she was 15. Die-hard smoker, no desire to quit, angry at all the restrictions on smoking, offended when I wouldn't bring my daughter (who has asthma triggered by cigarette smoke) to her house, or when I said she would have a better chance of selling her condo if she stopped smoking inside... well, after her kids started vaping, she's starting now. I sent my brother a bunch of 0 and 6mg juice and my old Spinner. She stole the Spinner and all of the nic juice and wouldn't give the Spinner back until she bought her own; but after trying my boyfriend's Provari when he visited she bought a Smoketech SID, a Protank 2, and a bunch of juice she likes.

So it's not just the non-smokers who are being influenced by the smokers. I am over the moon that my mom would start to vape after 65 years of smoking. She may never quit analogs entirely but who knows? She's certainly interested enough to start on the path...

Anyway, as adults we are able to make our own decisions. Yes, there is a lot of fear out there about normalizing smoking. But perhaps we should be looking at it as normalizing VAPING and concentrate efforts on that...?

I just loved your story. Happy for your mom!

 

[molimelight]

I'll just refer to this interview with Dr. Farsolinos, a researcher who is actually an advocate for vaping as harm reduction:

That’s why my main statements are that e-cigarettes, according to current research, are by far less harmful than tobacco. I’m not saying it’s safe, I’m not saying it’s a healthy habit so that everyone should go ahead and do it. I’m just comparing it with the effects of tobacco, knowing what’s in tobacco smoke.

Of course, there are many things that we need to know on a laboratory level, from the effects of various materials on the release of heavy metals and toxins in the vapor to analyzing the consequences of chemicals released through high-wattage e-cigarette use. There are currently endless possibilities for research, we have many protocols prepared, but funding is missing.

So we have to be cautious with e-cigarettes. For example we have no idea what’s happening when we inhale flavors. Most of those are approved for use in food but have not been tested for inhalation.

People are certainly free to do what they want, I love that freedom as much as the next person, but with all of the unknowns that exist regarding vaping, and I trust that viewpoint, why would anyone want to encourage others to do it for any reason other than harm reduction?

 

[Islandboy]

Would I recommend to my 16 year old grand daughter to start vaping, smoking, drinking alcohol, {OTHER STUFF}, {OTHER STUFF} or casual sex? Nope. My wife is a geriatric nurse and I am a volunteer fireman and we both see the effects of cigarette smoking, alcoholism and drug abuse on almost a daily basis. When a behavior consumes your life, no matter what it is, it's not a good thing. I vape because I enjoy it. Would I stand out in the rain or snow to do it? Nope, but when I was smoking I stood outside in all kinds of weather many times. Would I spend my last dollar on juice? Nope, but I've see plenty of people that have nothing else in the house other than a bottle of vodka. Addictive behavior is bad and if you are buying e-juice instead of paying the rent then you have a problem. Let's not confuse the behavior with the product.

 

[3Hunna]

I'll just refer to this interview with Dr. Farsolinos, a researcher who is actually an advocate for vaping as harm reduction:



People are certainly free to do what they want, I love that freedom as much as the next person, but with all of the unknowns that exist regarding vaping, and I trust that viewpoint, why would anyone want to encourage others to do it for any reason other than harm reduction?

Because there is a demand for it, a very, very big demand for it. I want to refer to the E-cigarette-research page because it is constantly being updated with new research papers from biology research websites and responses to research from other experiments. It is very objective and I feel that this alone really settles me in terms of knowing the unknown.

There are a lot of unknown harms behind everything we use in our daily life.

 

[3Hunna]

Would I recommend to my 16 year old grand daughter to start vaping, smoking, drinking alcohol, smoking weed, snorting coke or casual sex? Nope. My wife is a geriatric nurse and I am a volunteer fireman and we both see the effects of cigarette smoking, alcoholism and drug abuse on almost a daily basis. When a behavior consumes your life, no matter what it is, it's not a good thing. I vape because I enjoy it. Would I stand out in the rain or snow to do it? Nope, but when I was smoking I stood outside in all kinds of weather many times. Would I spend my last dollar on juice? Nope, but I've see plenty of people that have nothing else in the house other than a bottle of vodka. Addictive behavior is bad and if you are buying e-juice instead of paying the rent then you have a problem. Let's not confuse the behavior with the product.

That is why I am a strong believer in "With great freedom comes responsibility". The fact that we're on a forum right now is a good thing. We're taking the time to expose ourself with other people, learn from others. It becomes more than an addiction but a hobby and if you ever feel the addiction gets to you, you have a community to help you beat the addiction.

We aren't going to see Vaping junkies or lives ruined by vaping at the scale cigarettes, alcohol and drugs have. I'm an addict to the computer, have been using the computer for more than 5 hours a day nearly everyday, not because of work but because I like to socialise and play games and learn things. I know it may ruin my eyes, I know im developing anterior pelvic tilted posture but I still do it because I know it's not as bad of an addiction than some things and if I am responsible enough, which I Have been when I need to, i can get off whenever I want to.

Things aren't equally addictive. It's not black and white, addictions aren't necessarily all bad. They just need some restraint, control. The addiction becomes a simple enjoyable leisurely habit if enjoyed responsibly.

 

[DetraMental]

I don't believe anyone who has smoked and been addicted to it for decades is going to advise a non-smoker to try vaping just for the sake of vaping. Because we were held captive by our addiction for so long and finally found a way out via vaping doesn't mean we'll advocate it for just anybody. It's just common sense that clean air is the only good thing for your lungs. Yes we, as ex-smokers, are better off vaping than smoking no argument there but it doesn't mean I'd willingly say, "go for it" to a virgin lunged newbie just doing it for kicks. Of course we have concerns!

 

[3Hunna]

You can't base anything on common sense. Einstein on the theory of special relativity (which initially lacked any commonsense back then), once said that common sense was just things laid down to you before the age of 18.

As I said before, we can't just keep saying "clean air is the only thing good for your lungs" because that is far from the issue. The issue is people want to vape even if they aren't smokers, and its a big demand for it. Why should we stop them from vaping, we could be actually diverting them to cigarettes if we're blocking them from vaping which is clearly, objectively and comparatively safe.

I am just worried that the people that want to vape may be people that have considered smoking but have been put off by the dangers and if we're just going to scare them off, some of them might as well end up turning to analogs.

 

[molimelight]

Things aren't equally addictive. It's not black and white, addictions aren't necessarily all bad. They just need some restraint, control. The addiction becomes a simple enjoyable leisurely habit if enjoyed responsibly.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be abrasive, but that makes no sense when you consider the definition of addiction. A hallmark of addiction is the inability to exercise the restraint and control you speak of:

American Society of Addiction Medicine - Public Policy Statement: Definition of Addiction - Short Definition of Addiction: Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.

If you want to call something a pleasurable habit, fine (computer use, television watching, exercise, ECF). It is not an addiction.

 

[Mooktar]

Another new member here. Been vaping now about 6 months and loving it. I completely agree with the OP. I just enjoy it. I wasn't a cigarette smoker. I like cigars from time to time and love hookah when I'm overseas. We're all dying anyway and vaping is one of the most enjoyable parts of my day. Or I could just be like the marathon runner who died of an aneurism on the toilet... By the way, Rodney from my favorite company Five Pawns wasn't a smoker either.

 

[molimelight]

You can't base anything on common sense. Einstein on the theory of special relativity (which initially lacked any commonsense back then), once said that common sense was just things laid down to you before the age of 18. As I said before, we can't just keep saying "clean air is the only thing good for your lungs" because that is far from the issue. The issue is people want to vape even if they aren't smokers, and its a big demand for it. Why should we stop them from vaping, we could be actually diverting them to cigarettes if we're blocking them from vaping which is clearly, objectively and comparatively safe.

I am just worried that the people that want to vape may be people that have considered smoking but have been put off by the dangers and if we're just going to scare them off, some of them might as well end up turning to analogs.

But that IS the issue. If someone is considering smoking and is looking at vaping as a way to avoid the pitfalls of cigarettes then they will probably weigh any cautions I might extend to them regarding vaping when compared with cigarettes and will probably choose vaping if they are determined to inhale a chemical substance. Einstein and common sense aside, I think ANY doctor or scientist would agree with the premise that it makes no sense to inhale a concentration of vaporized chemicals rather than air.

 

[Free6413]

I pretty much agree with you. If someone wants to spend their money on vaping equipment, and wants to take the chance of becoming dependent on nicotine, that's their business. Personally, given the choice of smoking or vaping, vaping is without a doubt the safer of the two. Unfortuantely, as others here have already stated, politicians in particular seem to have a fear of non-smokers picking up vape gear and using it. Why? Because (I believe) vapor looks very much like smoke, and nowadays smoking has a very serious stigma associated with it. At this point, I tend to think it's in our best interest as a community to embrace the idea that we don't approve of non-smokers vaping. Not necessarily because it's true, but because the future of our beloved hobby, and the one thing that is keeping most of us, including myself, from smoking is at stake. I will be glad when all the legislation is drawn up and over with. Not that's it's ever really over with, but at least the "newness" will have worn off with lawmakers.

This is a touchy subject for me as I have a 17 year old that wants to get her own equipment and start vaping. As far as i know she has never smoked habitually and has seen what it can do first hand with family members. I told her that once she is of age to buy her own then she can do as she wishes. I am not keen on it but I would rather her pick up vaping than smoking! I did tell her that if she was going to do it to please, please vape 0 nic juice. There is no reason for her to have to stop something that she should have never started. I know that there are a large number of us that wish we had never started as well! The problem is that we have to let people be themselves and make their own choices. It is hard to do because we know where it leads. It is like watching your children do something that you know will most likely hurt but you have to let go and give them the opportunity to learn (see signature). As far as the lawmakers legislating the vaping future, well that is always a good one. I don't believe they will let go of the notion of legislating bans and regulation until they can figure how to gain revenue from it (other than the sales taxes). What you have to understand is that all of us that have quit smoking due to vaping have had a tremendous and significant effect on the bottom lines of many government institutions and lobbying interests. When you put that much impact on the almighty dollar everyone will take notice. This will not be a thing that will subside with time as the effects grow expotentially on a daily basis! The billions lost will not go unnoticed. You can bet the farm on that!.
I do believe we have a lifestyle and obligation to help the new ones gain the knowledge and happiness that we have been afforded at different times in our journey! I say that what keeps you or anyone you know from smoking, then have at it! We owe the newbies and veterans that much!

 

[jwoode]

I would have a "bone to pick" with any forum community that endorsed non smokers vaping as a hobby.
Personally, I would write that forum off in a New York minute.

 

[CalamityJess]

This is a touchy subject for me as I have a 17 year old that wants to get her own equipment and start vaping. As far as i know she has never smoked habitually and has seen what it can do first hand with family members. I told her that once she is of age to buy her own then she can do as she wishes. I am not keen on it but I would rather her pick up vaping than smoking! I did tell her that if she was going to do it to please, please vape 0 nic juice. There is no reason for her to have to stop something that she should have never started. I know that there are a large number of us that wish we had never started as well! The problem is that we have to let people be themselves and make their own choices. It is hard to do because we know where it leads. It is like watching your children do something that you know will most likely hurt but you have to let go and give them the opportunity to learn (see signature). As far as the lawmakers legislating the vaping future, well that is always a good one. I don't believe they will let go of the notion of legislating bans and regulation until they can figure how to gain revenue from it (other than the sales taxes). What you have to understand is that all of us that have quit smoking due to vaping have had a tremendous and significant effect on the bottom lines of many government institutions and lobbying interests. When you put that much impact on the almighty dollar everyone will take notice. This will not be a thing that will subside with time as the effects grow expotentially on a daily basis! The billions lost will not go unnoticed. You can bet the farm on that!.
I do believe we have a lifestyle and obligation to help the new ones gain the knowledge and happiness that we have been afforded at different times in our journey! I say that what keeps you or anyone you know from smoking, then have at it! We owe the newbies and veterans that much!

This was the hardest choice I have ever made as a Mom. My daughter started smoking, she was honest about it and outright told me eventually. But she'd been doing it for probably a year when she asked me a couple weeks ago about vaping. Mind you she is 19 (just turned), but this was before her 19th birthday and in Alabama where our shop is you have to be 19 to buy.

Yes she's an adult, but she's still living at home, but I also want her off the stink sticks. And she's my youngest, so she's still "my baby". She used some babysitting money to get an NHookah brand cheapo thing. At that point I gave her a spare ego I had, and lectured her about battery safety, that this was a reduction device and that the point was to step down in nicotine until she was off it. For her birthday, I bought her a full set up, taught her the tips and tricks, and gave her a bottle of juice.

The rest is up to her and her babysitting money to support. Even my husband who's not really sure about vaping yet agreed it was better than smoking. I still question my wisdom on it. But she's staying away from cigs now. And that's good.

 

[3Hunna]

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be abrasive, but that makes no sense when you consider the definition of addiction. A hallmark of addiction is the inability to exercise the restraint and control you speak of:



If you want to call something a pleasurable habit, fine (computer use, television watching, exercise, ECF). It is not an addiction.

I see where you're coming from. I guess I haven't been exposed to regular, long term nicotine use to understand the full extent of the effects of nicotine addiction.

I honestly think this rant of mine is as a result of just me feeling that vaping is not just about nicotine, since the selling of nicotine is sort of illegal in Australia and a lot of Australians vape 0mg nic. That's why I have trouble gettting my grasps on the addiction side of vaping plus my irregular smoking habits before not really exposing me to the true experience of an addiction.

But that IS the issue. If someone is considering smoking and is looking at vaping as a way to avoid the pitfalls of cigarettes then they will probably weigh any cautions I might extend to them regarding vaping when compared with cigarettes and will probably choose vaping if they are determined to inhale a chemical substance. Einstein and common sense aside, I think ANY doctor or scientist would agree with the premise that it makes no sense to inhale a concentration of vaporized chemicals rather than air.

This is what I disagree with though. I agree that doctors would say that it makes no sense to vape, it makes no sense because there is no physiological benefit to us but not everything has a physiological benefit because a lot of these doctors and scientists aren't going to consider the subjective psychological benefit to us. Only a psychologist would. When it gets to a point where something is relatively safe to consume, yet has no benefit then it really is up to the user to make the choice.

I still disagree with the use of "air is the only thing that belongs in your lungs" to ward off non-smoking vapers (it's a scientifically and biologically true argument, but does not stand the test of the demands of even the well informed consumer and their psychology) because we can say the same thing about processed food, flavour enhancers (do we really need to have flavour?), nutritional supplements, make up, skin care treatments, etc. We don't need them, but we add them because we want something in particular just like vaping, some people want something other than to quit cigarettes. I agree that in an ALL NATURAL world that air is the only thing in your lungs, but we aren't living in that world, we live in a world of chemicals, electricity, energy and communication. That's why if you are going to make the choice of doing ANYTHING to your body whether that be inhaling a substance, consuming food packed with preservatives and enhancers, "testosterone boosters", botox imitations, etc then it better be an informed one.

A more fit thing to say against non-smoking vapers is "do you think you are ready to deal with an addiction?". If you're going to arm them with 0mg nic juices, there is honestly little to no harm, with papers to prove that. IF anything, get non-smoking vapers to vape 0mg nic juices.