New Person Worried About Stocking Up

[Lessifer]

Yes, some of the nic providers the industry uses, have already registered their products with FDA according to Azim Chowdhuri and Dimitris.

Registered as tobacco products under the new rule, or previously registered as a nicotine product? I'll admit that I haven't looked too closely at the manufacturer timeline and requirements, since I'm not a manufacturer. I know it's not a "business as usual" for the next two years kind of thing though.

 

[Mazinny]

Registered as tobacco products under the new rule, or previously registered as a nicotine product? I'll admit that I haven't looked too closely at the manufacturer timeline and requirements, since I'm not a manufacturer. I know it's not a "business as usual" for the next two years kind of thing though.

Previously registered as nic product, but all the liquid enic providers need to do ( for ingredient listing purposes ) is to reference that listing in the FDA masterfile ( basically telling the FDA, that the source of our pure nic is already on file with you).

 

[Lessifer]

Previously registered as nic product, but all the liquid enic providers need to do ( for ingredient listing purposes ) is to reference that listing in the FDA masterfile ( basically telling the FDA, that the source of our pure nic is already on file with you).

Okay, what about the tobacco Health Documents Submission, which would be Feb 8, 2017 if they're a large scale manufacturer, or Aug 8 2017 if they're small scale?

 

[Mazinny]

Okay, what about the Tobacco Health Documents Submission, which would be Feb 8, 2017 if they're a large scale manufacturer, or Aug 8 2017 if they're small scale?

That's the specific date i was talking about. They would basically state that our source of nic is already on file with you, and here is the source of our PG. A lot easier to do than what an eliquid vendor will have to do for a product with ten ingredients from multiple suppliers ( some of whom have registered their flavors, and some haven't ). Multiply that by 50 different liquids they carry, and you can see that only the well prepared and dedicated vendors will be able to comply. Liquid nic, a lot easier.

 

[mostlyclassics]

Just take a walk through your local gardening supply store and look at all of the pesticides that include nicotine or nicotine sulfate, and imagine all of them suddenly being banned by the FDA as tobacco products.

Completely Average, straight nicotine, like what we use, has been out of pesticides for several years now. From here: Nicotine, a Natural Insecticide

For many years, farmers used nicotine as a pesticide, spraying it over their crops to poison any hungry insects. However, nicotine is quite toxic to mammals, including humans. It isn’t sold as a pesticide anymore in the U.S. or Europe, replaced by neonicotinoids. The new pesticides are similar to nicotine, highly effective, and work in the same way, but are safer for people (not insects, of course).

 

[Two_Bears]

I have been vaping without even one cig for 6 weeks Very happy after 40 years of cigs.

I am using an Istick 40tc and am very happy with it. I just leave it at 10W and that´s it. I have two, one for a backup. The problem is I am worried about what will happen next month. I don´t mind vaping unflavored if I had to and if I could get a jug of 50/50 with 18 nic. that would be great. The problem is I don´t feel comfortable measuring and calculating the nic just yet and I feel a little rushed. Also I have heard that the nic will oxidize with time.

Also, what happens when my 2 iSticks die? I am a MTL vaper and don´t need crazy sub om mods.

Also, I am not familiar with the online stores as I just started.

Just a little worried, any thoughts?

Sure.

Step 1. Stockpile nicotine.

People here at ECF have kept nicotine in the freezer with little or NO degradation after 6 years.

I went 0 nic 12/28/2015, and kept my nic in the freezer.

Step 2. This can come a few months from now get a few mods with external 18650 batteries. I can HIGHLY recommend

eVic VTC Mini (i have two of them)
Istick60tc (i have one of them
Istick Pico (i have two of them.

A lot of people recommend

Ipv series
Vaporesso Target
And several others

Step 3. Get a few Rebuildable atties and learn to rebuild.

Step 4. Yoy may want to get flavors abd a few hundred feet of wire.

Measuring nicotine is not that bad.

Get an eJuice calculator and it will do all the Math for you.

And get a few syringes.

The eJuice calculator will ask the ratio of VG PG you want your ejuice to be.

The strength of your nicotine the VG/PG ratio if your nic.

The VG/PG ratio of your flavors, etc

The size bottle of ejuice you are making. Then your calculator will spit out the formula for you.

It will look like

X.x ml nic
Xx.x ml VG
Xx.x ml PG
X.x ml flavoring

Then use a syringe with blunt needle to extract tge amount of liquids your Juice calls for.

I have three suggestions for You.

1. In the beginning make small batches like 5 ml. You will make some batches you can't stand. Better to toss 5 ml than 120 ml of Juice.

2. Never put all of the flavoring in at the beginning. Start with 60-75% of the flavoring. You can add more but you can't take it out. After you know how the flavor acts you will know how much to use.

3. Record ALL recipes in a notebook.

A record of successes and failures will be tremendously helpful.

After you win tge Lottery with an awesome tasting ejuice and expand the recipe to make a 30 ml or even larger bottle of ejuice.

I make 50 ml of ejuice at a time.

 

[Two_Bears]

I actually never received a call for action before it passed in Arkansas and I was a member of CASAA. It came as a big surprise to me and not just me from what I have read from folks that live here.

I have been a Cassa member a long time. And NEVER GOT a call to action either.

I do keep up here at ECF, and watching a LOT of reviews that are heavy into advocacy GrimmGreen, suck my mod, vaping Twisted, 420, jh Vapes, and more.

 

[Lessifer]

That's the specific date i was talking about. They would basically state that our source of nic is already on file with you, and here is the source of our PG. A lot easier to do than what an eliquid vendor will have to do for a product with ten ingredients from multiple suppliers ( some of whom have registered their flavors, and some haven't ). Multiply that by 50 different liquids they carry, and you can see that only the well prepared and dedicated vendors will be able to comply. Liquid nic, a lot easier.

I agree that the Product Listing and Ingredient Listing will be easier. I'm talking about this though, due at the same time:
Tobacco Health Documents Submission
–
Large-scale manufacturers required to submit to the FDA documents developed
after June 22, 2009, that relate to “health, toxicological, behavioral, or physiologic
effects” of products, constituents (including smoke constituents), ingredients,
components and additives.

 

[Two_Bears]

Yes that too!

Thats why i say get nicotine base while the getting us good.

The rest can be picked up later.

 

[Two_Bears]

Registration and ingredient listing would depend on who your flavor supplier is, I guess, but you're right that "pure" base would be easier.

If internet sales are banned in your state, then B&M is the only way to purchase legally. I don't know of any B&M's that carry nic base, though there might be some.

I thought My Freedom smokes carried nic.

There is a My Freedom smokes store near Broadway and swan here in Tucson, AZ but kind of hard to find and have not been able to find it yet. So don't know if they have njc at the local store.

 

[Eskie]

Sure.

Step 1. Stockpile nicotine.

People here at ECF have kept nicotine in the freezer with little or NO degradation after 6 years.

I went 0 nic 12/28/2015, and kept my nic in the freezer.

Step 2. This can come a few months from now get a few mods with external 18650 batteries. I can HIGHLY recommend

eVic VTC Mini (i have two of them)
Istick60tc (i have one of them
Istick Pico (i have two of them.

A lot of people recommend

Ipv series
Vaporesso Target
And several others

Step 3. Get a few Rebuildable atties and learn to rebuild.

Step 4. Yoy may want to get flavors abd a few hundred feet of wire.

Measuring nicotine is not that bad.

Get an eJuice calculator and it will do all the Math for you.

And get a few syringes.

The eJuice calculator will ask the ratio of VG PG you want your ejuice to be.

The strength of your nicotine the VG/PG ratio if your nic.

The VG/PG ratio of your flavors, etc

The size bottle of ejuice you are making. Then your calculator will spit out the formula for you.

It will look like

X.x ml nic
Xx.x ml VG
Xx.x ml PG
X.x ml flavoring

Then use a syringe with blunt needle to extract tge amount of liquids your Juice calls for.

I have three suggestions for You.

1. In the beginning make small batches like 5 ml. You will make some batches you can't stand. Better to toss 5 ml than 120 ml of Juice.

2. Never put all of the flavoring in at the beginning. Start with 60-75% of the flavoring. You can add more but you can't take it out. After you know how the flavor acts you will know how much to use.

3. Record ALL recipes in a notebook.

A record of successes and failures will be tremendously helpful.

After you win tge Lottery with an awesome tasting ejuice and expand the recipe to make a 30 ml or even larger bottle of ejuice.

I make 50 ml of ejuice at a time.

I would make a few minor changes.

Step 1. Stockpile nicotine. Unless you're a 0 nic vaper, this is the bottleneck in the whole vape system.

Step 2. Stockpile nicotine. It lasts a long time is you keep it in the dark and cold.

Step 3. Stockpile nicotine. DIY is truly not hard, and might be the only viable option down the road if regulations and taxes make buying premixed nic juice an impractical option.

Step 4. See Steps 1 through 3

Step 5. Vape stuff. Yes, you will need some mods and tanks. And an assortment to avoid premature, or even just the expected failure rate in any device. Mods with replaceable batteries will have a longer life cycle than those with built in batteries. Tanks that you can coil and wick yourself are preferable should companies that currently produce factory coils either can't sell them in the US any longer, or go out of business. A mech mod or two which have no circuitry to fail are good for the stockpile as well. Specialty replacement parts like extra replacement glass for your tanks is a good idea too. They will eventually break. Glass always does.

Step 6. Take a deep breath and repeat "Everything will be OK in the end"

Step 7. The good news. Batteries will always be available. Wire and cotton or rayon for building your own will always be available. Little parts like o rings will always be available. There is no need to go overboard and hoard stuff like that. PG and VG should be available as well, and only has a several year shelf life at best so I wouldn't buy a bathtub's worth right now.

Step 8. See Steps 1 through 3.

Step 9. Have a vape and relax. It will be alright.

Step 10. You're ready and done prepping for any future vapocalypse!

 

[Mazinny]

I agree that the Product Listing and Ingredient Listing will be easier. I'm talking about this though, due at the same time:
Tobacco Health Documents Submission
–
Large-scale manufacturers required to submit to the FDA documents developed
after June 22, 2009, that relate to “health, toxicological, behavioral, or physiologic
effects” of products, constituents (including smoke constituents), ingredients,
components and additives.

That just means any internal documents companies have re testing they have done that relates to “health, toxicological, behavioral, or physiologic effects” of their products, must be submitted. If they haven't done any tests, there's nothing to submit !

 

[Mazinny]

I actually never received a call for action before it passed in Arkansas and I was a member of CASAA. It came as a big surprise to me and not just me from what I have read from folks that live here.

CASAA: Arkansas Call to Action: URGENT! Oppose SB 978 which is being rushed through the legislature and could impose damaging regulations on the AR Vapor Industry.

 

[Racehorse]

I believe that was after the fact. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Not sure what you mean Mattiem. Arkansas went thru all this stuff before any other states, we have been dealing with this stuff for a full year now.

Not sure what "after the fact" means, except that I opened several topics when the laws were passed, trying to help everyone understand what was allowed and not allowed, because there was a lot of confusion about the new laws.

As for "after the fact", CAASA had put out a call to action about Arkansas so most people in AR knew the regs were coming. It's really not my job to cover that, nor do I have time to do so. One would assume that people keep up with pending legislation in their own state, right?

I think what Mazinny was saying is that if you went back to look at those topics, there was very little interest. There were about 9-13 people and some of them didn't live in AR and were just saying stuff like "you live in a messed up state, it will never happen where I live!" (which at the time, quite frankly, wasn't real comforting nor appropriate, IMHO).

But I guess that's normal, I mean, people really aren't interested in stuff unless it's happening TO THEM. I think that is human nature. (I did say at the time that the AR regs would probably be used as a template by other states...........and that has turned out to be true. Despite being thought of as backwards, the truth is that the lawmakers in AR were about a year ahead of everyone else in this "ban online sales of eliquids" game.)

The Republican leadership here is smart when it comes to getting $$ into their state coffers.

(I said at the time that other states' lawmakers were probably slapping themselves on the forehead, saying "how did they DO that so seamlessly and quickly?" ). In AR, they didn't have to change anything, they just put eliquid under the tobacco product description....all the regs for that were already well established, as were inventory procedures, licensing, etc.)

HOwever, as you know, there is no restiction on any hardware, as long as it doesn't contain liquid at the time of purchase. (which is also where I differed with other prognostications because hardware in and of itself is not a tobacco product, I can find machine shop guys here who could make "mods" all day long out of flashlight bodies, etc.)

As a result, I have not found the need to stockpile. I did buy a few 510 connectors and some springs.

As I always say, since I am a homesteader as close to "off the grid" as you can get w/out living w/out any modern conveniences, being adaptable is the best virtue. I was already only using 3mg nic, so when AR passed the laws, I just pretty much went to 0 nic. I stilll vape nic once in a while, but I decided not to let them "get to me" so adjusted my lifestyle accordingly. (which is the only thing I really have control over anyway).

If I was using nic I would have stockpiled that though.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

What state do you live in? State law changes are likely to have more impact sooner on what and where you can purchase.

This right here.

Unless you live in a nanny state that is restricting E-Stuff or going crazy on taxing, you really don't need to worry about the Deeming regs. There's A LOT of foaming at the mouth, sky is falling hysteria going around. The Deeming deal has already been mostly settled in Congress and what doesn't get fixed there is likely to get struck down in multiple already filled court cases.

There's no need to stock up unless your particular state is on the E-Cig restrict/tax to death warpath. Even most of those are going to be hard to enforce.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[bnrkwest]

This bothers me also and worries me as well. People start doing things that they are not informed about such as battery safety and ohms law.

True, hopefully we can still help newcomers to be safe.

 

[bnrkwest]

This right here.

Unless you live in a nanny state that is restricting E-Stuff or going crazy on taxing, you really don't need to worry about the Deeming regs. There's A LOT of foaming at the mouth, sky is falling hysteria going around. The Deeming deal has already been mostly settled in Congress and what doesn't get fixed there is likely to get struck down in multiple already filled court cases.

There's no need to stock up unless your particular state is on the E-Cig restrict/tax to death warpath. Even most of those are going to be hard to enforce.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

But if you don't trust all this to favor vapers on the state or fed level, stock up, you will use it anyway

 

[Lessifer]

This right here.

Unless you live in a nanny state that is restricting E-Stuff or going crazy on taxing, you really don't need to worry about the Deeming regs. There's A LOT of foaming at the mouth, sky is falling hysteria going around. The Deeming deal has already been mostly settled in Congress and what doesn't get fixed there is likely to get struck down in multiple already filled court cases.

There's no need to stock up unless your particular state is on the E-Cig restrict/tax to death warpath. Even most of those are going to be hard to enforce.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

I see stocking up as an appropriate application of the cautionary principle. It could turn out that there is nothing to fear and vapor products will be readily available(though I personally don't think we'll have anything like the market we currently have, even if we win every current battle), or things could get even worse and people will have a hard time getting anything, or anything in between. Stocking up really has no negatives though, aside from shelling out money now.

 

[Mazinny]

This right here.

Unless you live in a nanny state that is restricting E-Stuff or going crazy on taxing, you really don't need to worry about the Deeming regs. There's A LOT of foaming at the mouth, sky is falling hysteria going around. The Deeming deal has already been mostly settled in Congress and what doesn't get fixed there is likely to get struck down in multiple already filled court cases.

There's no need to stock up unless your particular state is on the E-Cig restrict/tax to death warpath. Even most of those are going to be hard to enforce.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

But if you don't trust all this to favor vapers on the state or fed level, stock up, you will use it anyway

How about pointing newcomers to the facts (without additional speculation, hyperbole, and personal opinion ), both FDA deemings and legislation ( passed and pending ) in their own states, and let them decide themselves whether they should stock up or not.

Personally i try to keep abreast of developments in my state and keep up with the latest on the deemings. If and when i see a reason for an immediate stock-up, i will make that decision. I don't currently see anything that might happen on 8/8/16 impacting me. Everyone should do what's right for them.

 

[bnrkwest]

How about pointing newcomers to the facts (without additional speculation, hyperbole, and personal opinion ), both FDA deemings and legislation ( passed and pending ), in their own states, and let them decide themselves whether they should stock up or not.

Personally i try to keep abreast of developments in my state and keep up with the latest on the deemings. If and when i see a reason for an immediate stock-up, i will make that decision. I don't currently see anything that might happen on 8/8/16 impacting me. Everyone should do what's right for them.

Agreed no one has to stock up, it is a personal choice. At this point I do not trust what is happening to not stock up. But to each their own