New Person Worried About Stocking Up

[Woofer]

Nic, nic and nic... I/we can make or repurpose everything else.

Nic is very difficult to extract and purify, so much so that I doubt it is possible in any setting other than a well equipped graduate level lab for small quantities or large industrial processing plants.

If anyone thinks they will extract significant nic by soaking tobacco in a solvent like PG, PGA, hexathane, toluene etc. you are wrong. Likewise to recovering nic from insecticides as there are no nicotine insecticides approved for use or sold in the Americas. These are all nicotinoids, similar to but not nicotine.

 

[Verb]

Yea, I have the same hunch. I'm actually surprised nic base wasn't specifically singled out in the regs. Something dumb like 36mg max to consumers. It seemed odd that there was no mention of it at all. I kinda doubt 100mg base shipped through the mail will be available inside of 2 years.

It was specifically mentioned. Liquid nicotine for consumer sale will be treated as eliquid. So, the manufacturer will have to prove 100mg is safe to vape.

 

[Vandal]

You made me starting thinking and counting.

My first goal is not to smoke. I figured out the downside if nothing changes and I can continue to vape as I have done the last 18 months.

If that happens I am out about $1500 for stuff I will never use. If things go as they seem to I will be ahead $4000 per year based on the price of the last carton I bought 18 months ago every year until I die.

I will be buying more

For me, the costs of stocking up have not been too great. Luckily, my vaping style needs are easily met with older generation tried and true gear, most of it being sold for a song. I can afford to stock up on a fair amount of it. The biggest ticket item was a Reo Grand (a buy it once, buy it for life item). I decided it was more prudent to put my money there (the mod plus a BF atty and spare parts) than on multiple regulated devices with unknown but finite lifespans. I have really worked to get the most for my money.

If all our hopes and dreams come true and vaping flourishes, since this gear suits me, it won't be wasted. I don't need the high powered stuff that's out now, nor any possible higher powered stuff in the future. Unless there is some revolution that totally changes the way we vape, lol.

 

[Vandal]

I have been vaping without even one cig for 6 weeks Very happy after 40 years of cigs.

I am using an Istick 40tc and am very happy with it. I just leave it at 10W and that´s it. I have two, one for a backup. The problem is I am worried about what will happen next month. I don´t mind vaping unflavored if I had to and if I could get a jug of 50/50 with 18 nic. that would be great. The problem is I don´t feel comfortable measuring and calculating the nic just yet and I feel a little rushed. Also I have heard that the nic will oxidize with time.

Also, what happens when my 2 iSticks die? I am a MTL vaper and don´t need crazy sub om mods.

Also, I am not familiar with the online stores as I just started.

Just a little worried, any thoughts?

Not sure how a good a job we are doing answering Dan40's questions, so I will give it a shot by listing some of the stuff I bought, since I am also a MTL vaper.

I hope the nic question has been answered already, so I'll just say as long as you take some minimal precautions, working with 100mg nic should not be a problem. You want adequate ventilation and no pets or children around. If you get 100 mg nic on you, just wash it off right away. You could get some nic base in the strength you prefer and use that while your reading up and learning about mixing. Buy some 100mg nic, too, and store it until you feel ready to work with it. Freezing nicotine base for long term storage will ensure minimal oxidation- it should last for years.

I am purchasing regulated mods that use replaceable batteries, my mainstay being Provape's Provari 2.5. Well made in the USA, it's older tech but fine for us tootlers.

I have yet to build a coil, but I'm going to have to learn. I've purchased wire and wicking material to coil with. After some research, I decided on Kayfun Lite Plus v2 (clone by EHPro) tanks. I am a dripper really and did a lot more research on rebuildable drippers. There seems to be a general consensus that Kayfun is the MTL vapers dream as far as tanks, but it wasn't so clear with drippers. I decided on a small variety: Origen v2, Derringer, Quasar, Stumpy (very hard to track down) and for something different, a Marquis, all clones.

I purchased some mechanical mods as well. I settled on the Nemesis (clone by HCigar) and bought a few of those. Battery safety is of prime importance in dealing with mech mods. There is lots of info on these forums about mixing, battery safety, etc. I should start keeping links to some of the best of it.

I also purchased a Reo Grand, a sturdy and not cheap mechanical mod that should outlive me. It's a bottom feeding mod that requires a bottom feeding atty/RDA. Being a dripper, I thought it might suit me.

If you want more info on any of this, feel free to ask. I have yet to come across an online shop that didn't deliver, by the way.

 

[r055co]

I've been prepping for months, have more than enough for a few lifetimes. But for those just starting now, my recommendations are

1. 3-4 liters of 100mg nic PG base in the freezer.
2. Get a couple backup mods
3. Get a few VT V2 510 decks
4. Get a few rebuildable tanks and RDA'S
5. Get a few Mech mods

This is the basics, should be a couple hundred dollars but you'll be set for a very long time. With the nic you can easily mix your own and be able to rebuild easily. It's not hard and really is fun. Food flavoring, cotton, wire, PG, VG, batteries they can't really mess with due to the zillion other uses for them.

Vaping is going to go underground, recipes and what not they can't stop but you need to have the basics.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[r055co]

To further expand on my recommendation for a couple of Mechanical Mod's, I recommend getting a few parallel mods. Example Kidney Puncher has a Dragon clone for about $25,I picked one up and I'm very happy with it. I'm up to around 25-30 mechs now and it is one of my preferred mods. You can keep a couple of mechs in storage as a fail safe. When the regulated Mod's crap out a good mech is almost bullet proof. You just need to know what you're doing with them. Which of course you can learn, great failsafe option I very highly recommend.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Mazinny]

Two things.

1. On 8/8/2016 almost everything vape related gets reclassified as a tobacco product.

2. Several states already have rules about buying tobacco products online.

1. You must've missed this part of my post : I don't mean a general " oh that's the date everything is deemed a tobacco product " , i mean something that prohibits me from ordering RTA's and liquid nic.

2. So ? Those states define " tobacco products " in their statutes. Those statutes do not magically change on 8/8/2016. Any change to the definition of " tobacco products " will have to be made proactively, like Utah and Arkansas did. Nothing happens automatically on 8/8/16 to those definitions.

My question remains, what stops me from ordering liquid nic, RTA's, wire etc ... on 8/9 ? Could you point me to a specific regulation ?

 

[Mazinny]

It was specifically mentioned. Liquid nicotine for consumer sale will be treated as eLiquid. So, the manufacturer will have to prove 100mg is safe to vape.

That's for PMTA, deadline 8/8/2018. Could you point to a section in the deemings which leads you to believe the availability of liquid nic will be in jeopardy on 8/8/ 2016 ?

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Unfortunately, this is becoming a more difficult guessing game lately.

The states that have passed the most draconian, Orwellian, and onerous vaping laws (lately) are AR, Utah, and Indiana, bills that were introduced by Republican lawmakers and signed into law by Republican governors.

However, I have never thought this was a partisan issue, and believe that by pitting people against each other, instead of uniting them, we lose strength.

Somebody on another forum pointed out that Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party both were formed because they were angry about the Wall Street bailout, but for slightly different reasons. Instead of uniting, they dilluted their own efforts by fighting each other instead.

We should learn from this.

This has been one heck of a ride hasn't it. Initially a Democrat thing and now everyone is jumping on regs and bans. It's becoming a piranha or shark feeding frenzy. These people are supposed to be educated, and there is little to no evidence that nicotine is bad for you in the small doses that we vape it at. You would think D's and R's would wait or call for some science based fact finding. But nope...once elected they act like they are ruling over children.

It is because I don't know everything that will happen after 8-8 that I do not personally trust the FDA deeming or how the states will react to it. My stock up was because I do not want to pay tobacco tax on vape supplies. The fact is no one, not you or I or anyone knows exactly what will or will not happen after 8-8. My state or your state could make it tough for online sales. If no online sales how will get your Nic ? What about PayPal and CC not allowing tobacco purchases? Who knows how bad it will be. But you are free to do as you please, stock up or not it's your choice

Dittos.

Other than the high upfront expense, turning to DIY and RTAs means even if the entire deeming regulation fiasco were thrown out and every state decided to ignore vaping, I will still end up saving hundreds of dollars a year over buying juice and replacement coils. From my perspective, the investment in my nic will provide for many years of savings. My tanks won't go out of "style", and my mods will work for as long as their life cycle. Hopefully I can buy new hardware down the road, and maybe even premade juice if I find something special that's affordable, but if not, no real loss.

There's another upside. If the vape market really contracts and new products do not make it to market, my shiny obsession will finally come to an end.

Dittos.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

It was specifically mentioned. Liquid nicotine for consumer sale will be treated as eLiquid. So, the manufacturer will have to prove 100mg is safe to vape.

Doh!

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Not sure how a good a job we are doing answering Dan40's questions, so I will give it a shot by listing some of the stuff I bought, since I am also a MTL vaper.

I hope the nic question has been answered already, so I'll just say as long as you take some minimal precautions, working with 100mg nic should not be a problem. You want adequate ventilation and no pets or children around. If you get 100 mg nic on you, just wash it off right away. You could get some nic base in the strength you prefer and use that while your reading up and learning about mixing. Buy some 100mg nic, too, and store it until you feel ready to work with it. Freezing nicotine base for long term storage will ensure minimal oxidation- it should last for years.

I am purchasing regulated mods that use replaceable batteries, my mainstay being Provape's Provari 2.5. Well made in the USA, it's older tech but fine for us tootlers.

I have yet to build a coil, but I'm going to have to learn. I've purchased wire and wicking material to coil with. After some research, I decided on Kayfun Lite Plus v2 (clone by EHPro) tanks. I am a dripper really and did a lot more research on rebuildable drippers. There seems to be a general consensus that Kayfun is the MTL vapers dream as far as tanks, but it wasn't so clear with drippers. I decided on a small variety: Origen v2, Derringer, Quasar, Stumpy (very hard to track down) and for something different, a Marquis, all clones.

I purchased some mechanical mods as well. I settled on the Nemesis (clone by HCigar) and bought a few of those. Battery safety is of prime importance in dealing with mech mods. There is lots of info on these forums about mixing, battery safety, etc. I should start keeping links to some of the best of it.

I also purchased a Reo Grand, a sturdy and not cheap mechanical mod that should outlive me. It's a bottom feeding mod that requires a bottom feeding atty/RDA. Being a dripper, I thought it might suit me.

If you want more info on any of this, feel free to ask. I have yet to come across an online shop that didn't deliver, by the way.

Agreed. I posted this in an earlier thread and I'll repost it for the OP.

07/05/2016

What do I have or what am I considering at the moment?

Have 2L+ of nic right now. I'm only buying Nude Nicotine Armor v2(in amber glass w argon gas). I believe in the packaging and will not consider anything else at the moment. I'll be buying at least 2ga more of NN (16 - 500ml, 100mg/ml), 1L of ea PG/VG, along with at least 25 flavors for DIY. Have 10 flavors for DIY now. Want freezer bags for the nic b/c I want to make sure freezer burn is not a possibility.

Have 12 box mods right now (2 of which are unregulated). They are all decent mods for the long haul (1 Mech - Scotts Mods Vet, 1 Mech - MVC Raptor, 1 - 75W Sig, 1 - 150W Sig, 2 - Sig 213, 4 - Sig Fuchai 213, 2 - RX200s). Considering 4 more RX200s, and 2 more mech box mods.

Have: 5 - Aspire Atlantis IIs(2 - extra pyrex glass), 1 - Triton v2, 2 - Twisted Messes Squared RDA(with 4 extra RDA bases). Considering the following with spare parts(glass, screws, o-rings): 4 - GeekVape Tsunami 24 RDA, 4 - Kayfun v5 RTA, 2 - Twisted Messes Squared RDA(and at least 4 more bases), 4 - Velocity v2 RDA.

Have a lot of wire and some premade coils. Want to buy more of ea, all SS 316L and Kanthal A1.

Just bought an XTAR VC4, and I have two Nightcore chargers. Need 6 new batteries for the RX200s, and I need at least two plastic cases.

Other items: Ultrasonic Cleaner, variable speed reversible drill, digital scale, 2 - Koh Gen Do Cotton(have 2 boxes right now), ...

I have a lot more and want a few more items but this is the bulk of it.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

That's for PMTA, deadline 8/8/2018. Could you point to a section in the deemings which leads you to believe the availability of liquid nic will be in jeopardy on 8/8/ 2016 ?

I think the problem is state law after 8/8/2016. Some states ban the online sale and shipping of tobacco products across state lines. The FDA has deemed all of these goods tobacco products. The persons in question will have to consult local, county and state laws to see if they live in one of those regions/areas.

 

[Vandal]

1. You must've missed this part of my post : I don't mean a general " oh that's the date everything is deemed a tobacco product " , i mean something that prohibits me from ordering RTA's and liquid nic.

2. So ? Those states define " tobacco products " in their statutes. Those statutes do not magically change on 8/8/2016. Any change to the definition of " tobacco products " will have to be made proactively, like Utah and Arkansas did. Nothing happens automatically on 8/8/16 to those definitions.

My question remains, what stops me from ordering liquid nic, RTA's, wire etc ... on 8/9 ? Could you point me to a specific regulation ?

I think the problem is state law after 8/8/2016. Some states ban the online sale and shipping of tobacco products across state lines. The FDA has deemed all of these goods tobacco products. The persons in question will have to consult local, county and state laws to see if they live in one of those regions/areas.

Agreed. If a state regulates cigarettes specifically, then yes, they would have to add e-cigarettes to the regulation. If a state regulates tobacco products, then no change is necessary since everything vape-related would be considered a tobacco product as of 8/8, and e-cigarettes would be subject to that state's regulations. So it would vary from state to state whether ordering online will be unaffected, or requires ID verification, or is prohibited altogether.

 

[r055co]

Agreed. If a state regulates cigarettes specifically, then yes, they would have to add e-cigarettes to the regulation. If a state regulates tobacco products, then no change is necessary since everything vape-related would be considered a tobacco product as of 8/8, and e-cigarettes would be subject to that state's regulations. So it would vary from state to state whether ordering online will be unaffected, or requires ID verification, or is prohibited altogether.

I live in Washington State, buying or selling tobacco out of State is a Class C felony. So yes I've stockpiled 30+years of nic juice.

States are nothing more than Pigs at the trough now that the FDA classifies it as tobacco.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Mazinny]

I think the problem is state law after 8/8/2016. Some states ban the online sale and shipping of tobacco products across state lines. The FDA has deemed all of these goods tobacco products. The persons in question will have to consult local, county and state laws to see if they live in one of those regions/areas.

Agreed. If a state regulates cigarettes specifically, then yes, they would have to add e-cigarettes to the regulation. If a state regulates tobacco products, then no change is necessary since everything vape-related would be considered a tobacco product as of 8/8, and e-cigarettes would be subject to that state's regulations. So it would vary from state to state whether ordering online will be unaffected, or requires ID verification, or is prohibited altogether.

We are going in circles it seems

Let me ask my question in a different way. The FDA has deemed ecigs " tobacco products" for the purposes of their regulations. Their regulations does not prohibit online sales. It took them six years to deem ecigs, after they said they were going to do so. Why do you think that the definition of " tobacco products " in an individual states legislation will automatically be changed on 8/8/16 ? Where is the legal precedent ? Which state has announced that their legislation will automatically be amended on 8/8/16 ?

 

[r055co]

We are going in circles it seems

Let me ask my question in a different way. The FDA has deemed ecigs " tobacco products" for the purposes of their regulations. Their regulations does not prohibit online sales. It took them six years to deem ecigs, after they said they were going to do so. Why do you think that the definition of " tobacco products " in an individual states legislation will automatically be changed on 8/8/16 ? Where is the legal precedent ? Which state has announced that their legislation will automatically be amended on 8/8/16 ?

As I stated above I live in Washington State, buying or selling tobacco out of State is a Class C felony. So yes come August 8th I'll be committing a felony if I buy vape gear online.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Mazinny]

I live in Washington State, buying or selling tobacco out of State is a Class C felony. So yes I've stockpiled 30+years of nic juice.

States are nothing more than Pigs at the trough now that the FDA classifies it as tobacco.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Actually no, buying is not a Class C felony, selling is :

(1) A person may not:
(a) Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet to anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesaler or retailer; or
(b) With knowledge or reason to know of the violation, provide substantial assistance to a person who is in violation of this section.
(2)(a) A person who knowingly violates subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a class C felony, except that the maximum fine that may be imposed is five thousand dollars.

Also, this is how they define "tobacco products " in their legislation :

(z) "Tobacco products" means cigars, cheroots, stogies, periques, granulated, plug cut, crimp cut, ready rubbed, and other smoking tobacco, snuff, snuff flour, cavendish, plug and twist tobacco, fine-cut and other chewing tobaccos, shorts, refuse scraps, clippings, cuttings and sweepings of tobacco, and other kinds and forms of tobacco, prepared in such manner as to be suitable for chewing or smoking in a pipe or otherwise, or both for chewing and smoking, and any other product, regardless of form, that contains tobacco and is intended for human consumption or placement in the oral or nasal cavity or absorption into the human body by any other means, but does not include cigarettes as defined in RCW 82.24.010.

What makes you think their definition of tobacco will change automatically on 8/8/16 to include ecigs ?

 

[Two_Bears]

Actually no, buying is not a Class C felony, selling is :

(1) A person may not:
(a) Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet to anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesaler or retailer; or
(b) With knowledge or reason to know of the violation, provide substantial assistance to a person who is in violation of this section.
(2)(a) A person who knowingly violates subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a class C felony, except that the maximum fine that may be imposed is five thousand dollars.

Also, this is how they define "tobacco products " in their legislation :

(z) "Tobacco products" means cigars, cheroots, stogies, periques, granulated, plug cut, crimp cut, ready rubbed, and other smoking tobacco, snuff, snuff flour, cavendish, plug and twist tobacco, fine-cut and other chewing tobaccos, shorts, refuse scraps, clippings, cuttings and sweepings of tobacco, and other kinds and forms of tobacco, prepared in such manner as to be suitable for chewing or smoking in a pipe or otherwise, or both for chewing and smoking, and any other product, regardless of form, that contains tobacco and is intended for human consumption or placement in the oral or nasal cavity or absorption into the human body by any other means, but does not include cigarettes as defined in RCW 82.24.010.

What makes you think their definition of tobacco will change automatically on 8/8/16 to include ecigs ?

Several States already have rules on the books dealing with unlawful shipping of tobacco prodycts, and more States are enactung similar regulations almost every week or so.

The problem is

On 8/8/2016 almost every thing vaping related is reclassified as tobacco products. Which means those regulatiins that refer to tobacco products automatically affects vaping products even without the need to change the laws already on the books.

The deeming regulations are going to cause a LOT of people a LOT of problems at 12:00 AM 8/8/2016.

All we can hope for is.

a. Congress will pass HR2058 OR pass the Cole Bishop ammendment

b. Prep and make the Bureaucrats irrelevant.

 

[Mazinny]

On 8/8/2016 almost every thing vaping related is reclassified as tobacco products. Which means those regulatiins that refer to tobacco products automatically affects vaping products even without the need to change the laws already on the books.

The deeming regulations are going to cause a LOT of people a LOT of problems at 12:00 AM 8/8/2016.

Did you read my other posts besides the one you are quoting, or even the last sentence of the post you quoted ?

What makes you think the FDA's definition of "tobacco products" for the purpose of their regulations ( which does not include bans on online sales ), will automatically change the definition explicitly spelled out in state legislation for the purpose of their own regulations ? I am not saying that they can't amend the definitions as Indiana and Utah did, but it is not automatic .

 

[Eskie]

What makes you think their definition of tobacco will change automatically on 8/8/16 to include ecigs ?

I would say this part fits quite well if you're looking for legal eagle enforcement:

and any other product, regardless of form, that contains tobacco and is intended for human consumption or placement in the oral or nasal cavity or absorption into the human body by any other means, but does not include cigarettes as defined in RCW 82.24.010.

FDA definition of a tobacco product

Components and parts of the newly deemed tobacco products, but not their related accessories, are included in the scope of this final rule. The following is a nonexhaustive list of examples of components and parts used with electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) (including e-cigarettes): E-liquids; atomizers; batteries (with or without variable voltage); cartomizers (atomizer plus replaceable fluid-filled cartridge); digital display/lights to adjust settings; clearomisers, tank systems, flavors, vials that contain e-liquids, and programmable software

So, yeah. (oh, I bolded the liquid stuff to make it easier to spot the stuff that actually contains the tobacco product)