New Person Worried About Stocking Up

[Robino1]

Since nic is the most important item in vaping (mods have been made from other objects since it was discovered they could be made from items purchased at Radio Shack) it is the most vulnerable in the chain.

I'm as surprised as Bob that they haven't even mentioned nic.........yet.

Maybe it does have to do with nic being a drug item and already under the FDA's control. There obviously is no rhyme or reason to what the FDA does.

I just know that I want to have enough to get me through the coming dark years. I have to believe vaping will gain the upper hand....in time. I just need to have enough to get me through until such time.

 

[bnrkwest]

The face to face buying is problematic as more and more B&M's close up because they cannot afford the approval for products. I know of 2 shops near me and I have no clue if they will survive the deeming, they are small shops.

 

[Mazinny]

At this point in time I just feel like it is prudent not to take a chance. One day we could order all the pre-made e-liquid we wanted and the next day a reg was passed that prevented all but face to face purchases here in the state of arkansas. That could just as easily happen with the nicotine we use to make our own. I consider it a good insurance policy for the future.

Yeah that kind of corruption is more likely in states where one party dominates ( Arkansas, Indiana and Utah seem to be the worst when it comes to state restrictions), but that didn't really happen overnight, there were CASAA calls to action and threads here in ECF when discussion was going on in the legislature in Arkansas and Indiana. Maybe Utah too, but i don't remember.

 

[Robino1]

And I just thought of another possibility, since nic is already classed as a drug for patches and gum, all they have to do is mandate that it can't be sold to individuals.

Ugh. I wish I could stop thinking.

 

[mattiem]

Yeah that kind of corruption is more likely in states where one party dominates ( Arkansas, Indiana and Utah seem to be the worst when it comes to state restrictions), but that didn't really happen overnight, there were CASAA calls to action and threads here in ECF when discussion was going on in the legislature in Arkansas and Indiana.

I actually never received a call for action before it passed in Arkansas and I was a member of CASAA. It came as a big surprise to me and not just me from what I have read from folks that live here.

 

[bnrkwest]

And I just thought of another possibility, since nic is already classed as a drug for patches and gum, all they have to do is mandate that it can't be sold to individuals.

Ugh. I wish I could stop thinking.

Yes that too!

 

[Robino1]

Yeah that kind of corruption is more likely in states where one party dominates ( Arkansas, Indiana and Utah seem to be the worst when it comes to state restrictions), but that didn't really happen overnight, there were CASAA calls to action and threads here in ECF when discussion was going on in the legislature in Arkansas and Indiana. Maybe Utah too, but i don't remember.

And the calls to action were acted on. The powers that be ignored all the responses and did whatever the hell they wanted to anyway

We. Don't. Matter. That fact was made loud and clear.

Sorry to the OP for derailing your thread. If you have any questions about any of the devices that were suggested, please continue to ask questions. We are here to help.

 

[Mazinny]

I actually never received a call for action before it passed in Arkansas and I was a member of CASAA. It came as a big surprise to me and not just me from what I have read from folks that live here.

Interesting. @Racehorse started a few threads about Arkansas ( if i remember correctly ), but didn't seem to get much interest here.

 

[GeorgeS]

I worry about raw nicotine as it is the ONLY substance we use that is actually derived from tobacco. (and can be called a 'tobacco product')

Being that it is the only substance I have a "dependency" on I've hedged my bets and stock piled a good supply of it.

 

[mattiem]

Interesting. @Racehorse started a few threads about Arkansas ( if i remember correctly ), but didn't seem to get much interest here.

I believe that was after the fact. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

 

[Lessifer]

Thanks for that. Do you know which states, what tax rates, and what date these new taxes will go in effect ?

I readily admit this is just a guess on my part, and this wasn't actually the post of yours I meant to quote, but giving my opinion on the whole nic base thing.

If we're talking about getting approved via PMTA, I think concentrated nic base is highly unlikely to get approved, since it's technically poisonous. That is two years away though. Before then, I would be surprised if no states pull a mg/ml restriction, though I have no idea where or when. Other than that, if internet sales are banned in your state, where will you buy bulk nic?

It actually wouldn't surprise me if raw nic base isn't regulated at all.

Nicotine has been used in the agricultural industry for ages as a pesticide. Just take a walk through your local gardening supply store and look at all of the pesticides that include nicotine or nicotine sulfate, and imagine all of them suddenly being banned by the FDA as tobacco products. Now there is a lawsuit the FDA doesn't want to take on.

Nicotine is the preferred pesticide of Organic Farmers. Ban nicotine base and the FDA will be taking on both national and international organic farming lobbying firms like WWOOF and OSGATA.

How many of those nicotine pesticides are vapable or ready to be mixed into something that can be vaped?

We don't use raw nicotine, we use(mostly) a somewhat diluted concentrate(100mg/ml, 10%) suspended in either pg or vg, which we then further dilute. I've tried a few times, and I haven't been able to find anything non vape related that is even close to what we would want.

 

[jamesbeat]

Thanks for that. Do you know which states, what tax rates, and what date these new taxes will go in effect ?

Lots of information online, here's an example:
State by State Vaping Tax Guide - 22 States proposed E-Cigarette Taxes in 2015 > VAPE ABOUT IT

 

[bnrkwest]

Lots of information online, here's an example:
State by State Vaping Tax Guide - 22 States proposed E-Cigarette Taxes in 2015 > VAPE ABOUT IT

Egads!!!

 

[Mazinny]

op, there are many threads on the first page of General Vaping, about the deemings and stocking up btw if you need more info :

Are you done stocking up?
On stockpiling after FDA deeming regulations
Shopping days left until Deem date- countdown
Whats going on ? Will there be a ban ?

 

[Mazinny]

Lots of information online, here's an example:
State by State Vaping Tax Guide - 22 States proposed E-Cigarette Taxes in 2015 > VAPE ABOUT IT

Thank you. Have any of these proposals passed ? It passed in Vermont house of reps it seems, but voted down in Senate.

 

[Mazinny]

I readily admit this is just a guess on my part, and this wasn't actually the post of yours I meant to quote, but giving my opinion on the whole nic base thing.

If we're talking about getting approved via PMTA, I think concentrated nic base is highly unlikely to get approved, since it's technically poisonous. That is two years away though. Before then, I would be surprised if no states pull a mg/ml restriction, though I have no idea where or when. Other than that, if internet sales are banned in your state, where will you buy bulk nic?

No, i am not talking about the PMTA process. I was asking whether liquid nic is under more threat than other vaping products, and odds that it's unavailable for purchase in 2017 say ( especially as compared to other vaping products ). I actually think it is easier to comply with the registration, product listing and ingredient listing requirements, for liquid nic, than it is for other vaping products. Some industry insiders also agree.

If internet sales are banned in states other than Indiana , Utah and Arkansas, i would assume it would apply equally to all vape products ( finished eliquid and nic base ) equally.

 

[Lessifer]

No, i am not talking about the PMTA process. I was asking whether liquid nic is under more threat than other vaping products, and odds that it's unavailable for purchase in 2017 say ( especially as compared to other vaping products ). I actually think it is easier to comply with the registration, product listing and ingredient listing requirements, for liquid nic, than it is for other vaping products. Some industry insiders also agree.

If internet sales are banned in states other than Indiana , Utah and Arkansas, i would assume it would apply equally to all vape products ( finished eliquid and nic base ) equally.

Registration and ingredient listing would depend on who your flavor supplier is, I guess, but you're right that "pure" base would be easier.

If internet sales are banned in your state, then B&M is the only way to purchase legally. I don't know of any B&M's that carry nic base, though there might be some.

 

[Mazinny]

Registration and ingredient listing would depend on who your flavor supplier is, I guess, but you're right that "pure" base would be easier.

Yes, some of the nic providers the industry uses, have already registered their products with FDA according to Azim Chowdhuri and Dimitris.

 

[Robino1]

Yes, some of the nic providers the industry uses, have already registered their products with FDA according to Azim Chowdhuri and Dimitris.

Registered AND approved for vaping?

 

[Mazinny]

Registered AND approved for vaping?

I don't know if anything is " approved for vaping " by FDA lol ... no i meant the registration requirement and ingredient listing requirements, not PMTA. Basically what needs to be done to get to Aug 8, 2018. Beyond that date, we are in real trouble if we don't have success in courts or the congress. All the proposed state taxes and internet sales bans will be a moot point by that date.