New pilot hybrid draw and vapor questions

[testerjtester]

Well, I finally decided to get organized because my experience so far has been so uneven, and I cut out little strips of colored electrical tape so that I could number all of the various components that I have in play (3 atomizers, 4 batteries, and 4 carts at this point), because I suspected that I might have some bad parts, and failure of any of them could cause similar problems.

So far I've confidently identified one 402 battery as defective (seems to be shorting out or something, fresh off the charger when I try to draw, it doesn't have enough power to fully heat the atomizer, and the LED will light initially but fade off while I'm still dragging, and comes on and off after that). I also have another suspect battery, and one atomizer that I'm fairly sure is dead, but need to confirm after waiting for the chargers to cycle again.

Until I can troubleshoot some more, I'm sticking with an atomizer I know is good, and interestingly I find that with it and a good battery I'm not even close to reaching the cutoff, which I had been running afoul of every time I turned around.

Will update on this drama as more news breaks!

 

[Stike]

Good Job figuring it out.I have a mini and 901 once i figured the right combo of juice and topping off my mini works great.My mini runs better with the adomizer alittle wetter so I add alittle few drops ever now and then between topping off.Hope this helps somrthing else you could try

 

[Obi Wan]

My first few days with the pilot seemed like nothing was consistent.
not sure if your doing this but i found that its worth it to take out the cartridge top filling before adding 4 or 5 drops.
i push it up with a paperclip,take out the filling,,fill it,,put the filling back in and only add 1 more drop.
seems to last along time that way and i dont draw in any juice from when i first filled them without taking the cartridge apart.

having 2 chargers and extra batteries helps with not ending up waiting for a battery to charge etc,,

and i clean my atomizers in a shot glass of coke or pepsi and still using the original ones.

i like the work that goes into these as part of smoking them but if someone doesnt like fussing with them then maybe something like the e-cigar or penstyle would last longer and be better.
i plan to try the bada bing e-cigar kit if there ever not sold out at puresmoker,,lol

i smoked my pilot last night at a tiki bar and had 3 pilots with batteries to be sure i wouldnt run out and want a winston,,and only used 2 of them !
and ended up answering alot of questions from anyone who noticed the blue light..
i think the pilots are awesome once you get used to them..

 

[igetcha]

hi mate,

1st off.......if you are getting juice in your mouth then liquid has spilt out, usually from over filling. try this:-

1. using a pin, push it thru the small hole in the cart and push out the small inner cart.
2. get some paper towel and roll it up thin and tight.
3. then push this into the cart to soak up any excess liquid.
5. then wipe off any excess liquid on the outside of the small inner cart
6. now replace the small inner cart and gently push it down to the bottom of the cart. (use the pin or tweezers to push gently down on the EDGE of the small inner cart)

then replace and vape away


the atomisers on these 401 based e-cigs need to be moist at all times. if they become dry they will activate a safety feature in the battery that will stop you from taking a proper drag. this is designed so you wont burn the atomiser out. add a drop or 2 onto the steel wick and you should then be able to take a longer drag. which is one good reason to not blow out all the primer and then put a cart on when you use it for the 1st time. you are leaving the atomiser to run dry until the juice from the cart eventually reaches the heating coil! not good!

airflow will be improved if you can match the shape of the inner cart to the opposite direction of the atomiser. the inner cart has 2 gaps on either side for airflow. try and put the cart on to the atomiser so that the wick is going left to right and the 2 gaps of the inner cart are going up and down.

here is a user and maintenance video guide i made on the EVO. everything i show you is the exact same way for the pilot as they are both based on the same model M401:-

YouTube - EVOlution E-CIG USER TIPS AND MAINTENANCE GUIDE


hope that helps,

cheers,

scott

 

[jimgman]

yea, im starting to think some of your symptoms could be from overheating, and vaping it too fast. they do seem to get tight in the draw as they get hot, and would also explain low vapor if your vaping it faster than the liquid can wick to the coil. try spacing out your hits a bit more. also, i had a black atomizer 4 hole that didnt vape well. someone said the brass ones are better, just got some, and its definitely better than the one i had. its a different design too, these brass ones have white plastic looking stuff under the metal mesh wick, and a white bridge looking thing covering the coil.

 

[]v[icr0-kn0x]

The Pilot was my first choice in getting my first personal vaporizer. I had my kit for about 2-3 weeks now and also thought the draw was a bit hard. I also didn't know that it was suppose to be this tough till I just recently got a 901 (just as a back up). Boy, the 901 has such a easy draw compared to the pilot and the 901 hasn't been broken in yet. So definitely, the Pilot does take some practice and getting use to while the 901 is almost brainless.

 

[Lorddrek]

My rechargable E-Cig experience is solely with the M401/402 Pilot Hybrid. I did struggle with it at first but have learned how to use it well enough to really enjoy the product. I will list my observations here in no real order.

Light slowly flashes-This seems to mean the atomizer "Thinks" it is dry and cuts power to avoid damage. Most of the time this is the case. I find my shorter batteries do this more often for some reason. One more than the other so sensitivity must vary.

Light quickly flashes-The battery needs to be recharged. It blinks about 10 times. Charging times take 3 hours for the long and 2 1/4 hours for the short.

Power cuts off after long drag-After at least a 5 second constant drag power shuts off for 2 minutes. Another safety feature. It takes about 2 minutes for it to work again. You can avoid this by taking a couple of smaller puffs.

Cartridge is dry-I notice an unpleasant plastic taste and often the light will slowly flash. I really find the whole cartridge thing to more trouble than it's worth and drip if at all possible. My wife on the other hand thinks I look like a drug addict and prefers the convienence of the cartridge. The cartridge wick can vary in size and performance. An understuffed one wicks great and is easy to fill but will leak a lot. More wick material holds the liquid better but seems slower to get fluid to the atomizer.

E-Cigarette gurgles-Too much fluid somewhere. I remove the atomizer and blow it out a few times. A good drop or two of fluid comes out around the metal wick. I wipe this off and screw it back on. The cartridge (if using) will also need to be cleaned. I push out the cartridge and swab the outside with a Q-Tip. Cartridge mouthpiece can hold a lot of loose juice. It has an inner stem inside to keep liquid from coming out of the mouthpiece hole. I take the tip of a Q-Tip and pull at it a bit so it can reach the very bottom. You know if you got it right because it will be soaked.

Not enough vapor -I started with Johnson Creek VG at 18mg strength and vapor was marginal. No real throat hit either. Found myself sucking at it like I was working a thick milkshake. So I bought some generic PG at 36mg and got massive vapor and throat hit. Very noticable nicotine flavor. Lighter puffs gave me a satisfactory hit. Headache too. Most recently I bought Cash PG at 24mg and this has a nice balance of vapor and throat hit with a more subdued nicotine flavor. Heavy vaping brings out a bit of headache. I plan on trying some 16mg next for this reason.

Too much vapor-Is this even a problem? Actually when dripping around the 4-5th hit I will get some serious vapor and a rather unpleasant tasting hit. More puffs will do the same. My theory is that all the good stuff has been inhaled and the residual liquid from over dripping is all thats left. I find smaller drips and eventual atomizer cleaning/swapping cures this.

Atomizer loose for improved airflow-I have not noticed any change by doing this. My wife bent hers so the atomizer does not seat squarely and leaves a good gap on one side. No improvement in airflow. Looking at all the the air passages the mouthpiece is by far the smallest so I would start there if more flow is your desire. I have not tried this yet.

Priming dry atomizer-After cleaning I am amazed at how much liquid I need to drip for it to start vaporizing. It takes me at least several small drips to get wet enough to work. Then just 2-3 after that gets me a few good puffs before repeating. Bear in mind I do not use full drops because it can't soak in fast enough and gets messy. I form a small droplet and let that soak in before dabbing again.

Battery drains fast-Because the switch is so sensitive most anything can set it off. Blow on the LED tip to see. When not in use I always remove the atomizer/cartridge section to keep it from heating. Just the LED will not drain the battery because it uses so little power. Find a good case to store your stuff safely. Batteries rolling around loose could short out and ruin them. Protect this by covering them with a pen cap at the very least.

In all I am very happy with my Pilot and am amazed at how well it works. There most certainly is a learning curve but I hope what I posted helps speed you thru it. While not perfect these things are far closer than I ever would have imagined. I think most anyone can use the Pilot with exellent results and would recommend them to anyone starting out.

Lorddrek

 

[klum]

I posted this in a different thread, this one is probably a better place. I wasn't clear on how to move it, so I just copy/pasted it here.

"I'm not sure if this is related, but, when I first got my pilot and extra atomizer, both 4 hole, they had tons of vapor. Actually, they still do, but, within 2 weeks on my 401 size battery, I started to have to draw much harder to get the same amount of vapor as my 402 size battery when both are fully charged. It's almost like there's not enough air getting into the holes. I also noticed that my 401 battery doesn't screw on as well to the atomizers anymore. If I screw it all the way down it seems to block the holes from getting much air. If I leave it a half turn looser, it still has a harder draw but gets the vapor. Was there some sort of gasket that I smashed?

Has anyone else had this issue? "

kevin

 

[testerjtester]

Okay, looks like I have a lot of catching up to do...

(EDIT: some of my comments got lost somehow, put 'em back, wouldn't want anyone to miss anything!)

My mini runs better with the adomizer alittle wetter so I add alittle few drops ever now and then between topping off.Hope this helps somrthing else you could try

I think I'm probably tending towards keeping the atomizer too wet, if anything... after dripping and getting that extra blast, I think I'm trying to get the same thing once it's down to the cartridges, so I'm working on resetting my expectations...

My first few days with the pilot seemed like nothing was consistent.
not sure if your doing this but i found that its worth it to take out the cartridge top filling before adding 4 or 5 drops.
i push it up with a paperclip,take out the filling,,fill it,,put the filling back in and only add 1 more drop.
seems to last along time that way and i dont draw in any juice from when i first filled them without taking the cartridge apart.

Good to know others have had the same challenges as me. I gave your fill method a try, and it seems to work pretty well for me too. Have tried using a syringe also, which seems to provide the same basic effect.

hi mate,

1st off.......if you are getting juice in your mouth then liquid has spilt out, usually from over filling. try this:-

1. using a pin, push it thru the small hole in the cart and push out the small inner cart.
2. get some paper towel and roll it up thin and tight.
3. then push this into the cart to soak up any excess liquid.
5. then wipe off any excess liquid on the outside of the small inner cart
6. now replace the small inner cart and gently push it down to the bottom of the cart. (use the pin or tweezers to push gently down on the EDGE of the small inner cart)

then replace and vape away

Good tip, a good cartridge cleaning got rid of some of the juice I was sucking in from previous overfills - didn't think it would hang on to the liquid like that, couldn't believe how wet the paper towel was!

airflow will be improved if you can match the shape of the inner cart to the opposite direction of the atomiser. the inner cart has 2 gaps on either side for airflow. try and put the cart on to the atomiser so that the wick is going left to right and the 2 gaps of the inner cart are going up and down.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this one... I think I see what you're getting at, but I'm having trouble visualizing what to do to get it right... ?

here is a user and maintenance video guide i made on the EVO. everything i show you is the exact same way for the pilot as they are both based on the same model M401:
hope that helps,

cheers,

scott

Great video, thanks for posting, it covered all of the basics of starting out really well... I'll try the draining trick overnight tonight.

yea, im starting to think some of your symptoms could be from overheating, and vaping it too fast. they do seem to get tight in the draw as they get hot, and would also explain low vapor if your vaping it faster than the liquid can wick to the coil. try spacing out your hits a bit more.

Thanks VERY much for this, those were some of the missing links, I've been hammering on these things trying to find out what parts might be bad, and not giving them a chance to cool down or let the juice wick up to the atomizer, which was leaving me with 80% of the juice still in the carts when I started getting a burnt taste and the vapor died off. I started slowing down the drags and spacing them out, and I got a good hour of continuous use and popped the cart off to find it almost completely dry. THAT'S what I want out of these bad boys.

also, i had a black atomizer 4 hole that didnt vape well. someone said the brass ones are better, just got some, and its definitely better than the one i had. its a different design too, these brass ones have white plastic looking stuff under the metal mesh wick, and a white bridge looking thing covering the coil.

Hmmm... I'll order a brass and see what it might do for me. But your description sounds just like my black ones, I wonder if both colors now use the same design?

My rechargable E-Cig experience is solely with the M401/402 Pilot Hybrid. I did struggle with it at first but have learned how to use it well enough to really enjoy the product. I will list my observations here in no real order.

Light slowly flashes-This seems to mean the atomizer "Thinks" it is dry and cuts power to avoid damage. Most of the time this is the case. I find my shorter batteries do this more often for some reason. One more than the other so sensitivity must vary.

Light quickly flashes-The battery needs to be recharged. It blinks about 10 times. Charging times take 3 hours for the long and 2 1/4 hours for the short.

Power cuts off after long drag-After at least a 5 second constant drag power shuts off for 2 minutes. Another safety feature. It takes about 2 minutes for it to work again. You can avoid this by taking a couple of smaller puffs.

Cartridge is dry-I notice an unpleasant plastic taste and often the light will slowly flash. I really find the whole cartridge thing to more trouble than it's worth and drip if at all possible. My wife on the other hand thinks I look like a drug addict and prefers the convienence of the cartridge. The cartridge wick can vary in size and performance. An understuffed one wicks great and is easy to fill but will leak a lot. More wick material holds the liquid better but seems slower to get fluid to the atomizer.

E-Cigarette gurgles-Too much fluid somewhere. I remove the atomizer and blow it out a few times. A good drop or two of fluid comes out around the metal wick. I wipe this off and screw it back on. The cartridge (if using) will also need to be cleaned. I push out the cartridge and swab the outside with a Q-Tip. Cartridge mouthpiece can hold a lot of loose juice. It has an inner stem inside to keep liquid from coming out of the mouthpiece hole. I take the tip of a Q-Tip and pull at it a bit so it can reach the very bottom. You know if you got it right because it will be soaked.

Not enough vapor -I started with Johnson Creek VG at 18mg strength and vapor was marginal. No real throat hit either. Found myself sucking at it like I was working a thick milkshake. So I bought some generic PG at 36mg and got massive vapor and throat hit. Very noticable nicotine flavor. Lighter puffs gave me a satisfactory hit. Headache too. Most recently I bought Cash PG at 24mg and this has a nice balance of vapor and throat hit with a more subdued nicotine flavor. Heavy vaping brings out a bit of headache. I plan on trying some 16mg next for this reason.

Too much vapor-Is this even a problem? Actually when dripping around the 4-5th hit I will get some serious vapor and a rather unpleasant tasting hit. More puffs will do the same. My theory is that all the good stuff has been inhaled and the residual liquid from over dripping is all thats left. I find smaller drips and eventual atomizer cleaning/swapping cures this.

Atomizer loose for improved airflow-I have not noticed any change by doing this. My wife bent hers so the atomizer does not seat squarely and leaves a good gap on one side. No improvement in airflow. Looking at all the the air passages the mouthpiece is by far the smallest so I would start there if more flow is your desire. I have not tried this yet.

Priming dry atomizer-After cleaning I am amazed at how much liquid I need to drip for it to start vaporizing. It takes me at least several small drips to get wet enough to work. Then just 2-3 after that gets me a few good puffs before repeating. Bear in mind I do not use full drops because it can't soak in fast enough and gets messy. I form a small droplet and let that soak in before dabbing again.

Battery drains fast-Because the switch is so sensitive most anything can set it off. Blow on the LED tip to see. When not in use I always remove the atomizer/cartridge section to keep it from heating. Just the LED will not drain the battery because it uses so little power. Find a good case to store your stuff safely. Batteries rolling around loose could short out and ruin them. Protect this by covering them with a pen cap at the very least.

Wow... this is incredibly helpful, really comprehensive and written out very clearly - if this isn't a sticky somewhere, it should be! I'm going to throw a bunch of Q-tips in my stash box, can't believe I didn't think of using them to clean out the mouthpiece. Funny though, I've actually been kind of digging the gurgle effect, it makes me feel like there's a huge blob of liquid just boiling away like a vapor factory!

I really, really appreciate everyone's feedback, you've all been a huge help. I've gotten something useful out of every single post, and I think I'm confident enough now that I'll stay with the Pilot, but I can see myself adding a penstyle once I've mastered it a little better.

More than that, I can actually see myself being done with analogs now, after 25 years. Man, that's crazy to say, I never thought I'd see the day... this is the best thing EVER.

 

[ChainSmkr]

. I haven't figured out what the problem is and am leaning toward just a poorly constructed atomizer.

I just got a few new carts for my pilot hybrid. The insides are different than the carts that came with my PH even though I purchased them from the same supplier. The draw is still hard and I can't believe how tight the fit of the innards into the mouthpiece is - my micro is loose fitting to allow airflow. I've changed my mind and decided the cart is the culprit, not the atomizer.

Can any of you experts explain how this works? What exactly happens between the cart and the steel wick when we inhale?

 

[biilllyyyy]

401 takes some getting used, i find 3 lite, 2 second drags, give me the most vaper & hit

 

[igetcha]

I just got a few new carts for my pilot hybrid. The insides are different than the carts that came with my PH even though I purchased them from the same supplier. The draw is still hard and I can't believe how tight the fit of the innards into the mouthpiece is - my micro is loose fitting to allow airflow. I've changed my mind and decided the cart is the culprit, not the atomizer.

Can any of you experts explain how this works? What exactly happens between the cart and the steel wick when we inhale?

have you tried removing the inner cart from both your original and new carts and then tried vaping to see if the draw is easier with just a empty mouthpiece?

that would give you a direct result to see if the inner carts are the problem or if its the atomiser.

also, out of these 2 inner cart designs what one is like yours? the smaller or larger one? i find that the smaller ones which have just one gap give a greater air flow:-

 

[ChainSmkr]

have you tried removing the inner cart from both your original and new carts and then tried vaping to see if the draw is easier with just a empty mouthpiece?

that would give you a direct result to see if the inner carts are the problem or if its the atomiser.

also, out of these 2 inner cart designs what one is like yours? the smaller or larger one? i find that the smaller ones which have just one gap give a greater air flow:-

That was a brilliant test suggestion! I tested all 3 (both inner carts/no inner cart) and although there was a slight difference in the draws I'd say it was negligible. My orig carts are the smaller one shown at the top of your pic; the new carts I got are the bottom one. If I had to choose, I'd prefer the smaller one. I may just have to accept the fact that the micro has spoiled me and the Pilot may never achieve the same effortless draw. So far, the best draw I can get is by directly dripping into the atomizer (normally I just drip onto the steel wick). That's why I was wondering about the e-liquid delivery between inner cart to wick.

 

[Starlight]

My Pilot, with black carts, doesn't have either of the same 2 inner carts as my brown EVO ones. The (black) Pilot carts are totally circular and somehow seem smaller in diameter than the EVO ones. Somebody once posted a pic of these new carts somewhere here but it was a while ago and trying to search for it with the tons of new topics these days has been too difficult I'm afraid... I tried but couldn't find it

It seems like a very "airy" draw to me with the Pilot, compared to my EVO, 901 and Penstyle.

 

[testerjtester]

Can any of you experts explain how this works? What exactly happens between the cart and the steel wick when we inhale?

I'd be interested in the answer to this as well... I've been using the same carts, refilling them in pretty much the same way, for almost a week now, and it seems like I get a lot of variation in their performance. Sometimes the liquid wicks completely out, sometimes it doesn't, and the airflow seems to change when I swap one out for another. Guess I could still be inconsistent with my drawing technique, but I sure think I'm doing it the same way every time...

 

[Flitzanu]

jester, one thing...those carts won't last forever. well, the carts will, but not the fiber. it does tend to wear down a bit, there are some posts about replacement materials to use to make your own stuffing.

basically...polyfill from walmart or a craft store. i've been noticing a difference in older refilled carts vs new carts and it seems to be the fiber.

hey Starlight - are you sure your pilot carts are totally round? the ones i have in the black carts are D shaped, are you sure there's not one side that's flat?

 

[ChainSmkr]

My Pilot, with black carts, doesn't have either of the same 2 inner carts as my brown EVO ones

Here's a pic of the two black Pilot carts I have

 

[Flitzanu]

Here's a pic of the two black Pilot carts I have

WEIRD!!

it looks like the cart on bottom isn't as big of a diameter of the "cart on a stick" and just by looking at it, probably holds the same volume?

it certainly doesn't look as big as an EVO cart.

thanks for the pic, now i'm intrigued. all my Pilot Hybrid carts i've popped out are "on a stick." maybe that's a new design being used? seems it would be easier to make one solid piece than one with a little thin stick on them.

i said "stick" too many times in this post.

 

[Lorddrek]

How well does the cartridge without the stick work? I have seen a picture of that before and wondered about it. It has three ridges that center the cart so no indent on the side is needed for airflow. I think another advantage was having the cartridge not touching the mouthpiece wall would prevent juice from seeping out.

 

[Starlight]

Here's a pic of the two black Pilot carts I have

Thanks for the pics! Mine are like the one on the bottom. Totally round.

The length of the inner cart is shorter than the new longer bigger brown EVO one. The diameter is smaller than either of the brown ones. It feels tiny, it's also harder and more fiddly to push the filler wool back in because the diameter is smaller, and seems to hold less liquid.

I haven't had any liquid come out of it like with the EVO ones, but I haven't had the Pilot that long and haven't yet used it as much. I think I heard on other threads that the smaller EVO cart on a stick works better despite being smaller and holding less liquid.

One could always use a black EVO cart with the Pilot as all parts are interchangeable, or even use a brown EVO inner cart in a black outer cart, as the inner one won't be seen. I'm thinking of doing this as these little thin black ones are beginning to drive me nuts as they're so fiddly, and mine are also very tight to push back in.