New report who

[Kate]

Hi Supermig, welcome to the forum. It's good that you got to talk with Stéfanie Laniel and she might have an open mind about esmoking. It would be good if you would post the contacts here so we know who is best to get in touch with, especially the person in charge of the esmoking dossier.

Stéfanie's view that esmoking history is not good - is that something to do with being linked to smoking and tobacco? I think a lot of people in positions of power will not like the similarities between esmoking and smoking. There isn't a lot we can do about that, esmoking obviously appeals to smokers. The best we can hope for is that it will show up favourably in comparison as a healthier option.

"... opacity surrounding the manufacturing of the e-liquid..." I think you mean the lack of regulation and openness of manufacturers regarding content, purity and toxicity. The eliquid is my biggest area of concern, I think that could easily be banned as an unproven, potentially dangerous substance by many governments.

Voluntary disclosure and privately funded testing by manufacturers and vendors would help our case. This will cost money, to cover costs we may have to be prepared to pay a premium for our products. User groups may be able to organise research as you suggest. That would be a good way to get subjects for long term clinical trials.

 

[Nazareth]

super- perhaps you could point them to Pillbox's lab test results (Which can be found here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...y-wicked-e-smoking-liquid-about-hit-uk-5.html ) that list all the ingredients and gives toxicity measurements on each ingredient & tell her that hte majority of people are buying from reputable people for their smoking juices & tell her that we as smokers are certainly aware of the risks but that the risks are magnitudes lower with esmoking than they are with real cigarettes

Also be sure to inform here that this is NOT "E-Smoking" that we are doing but "E-Vaping" which is a much much different hting than smoking- nothing we do causes smoke with E-ciggs- also point out that htese are NOT cigarettes, but rather are nicotine inhalation devices, and that as such, they pose no health risks to others in the room like cigarettes do

This forum needs a sticky post with all the medical testing reports that have been gathered to date- even if they aren't controlled clinical trials- it would be good to have one thread posting reports and trials like pillbox's results, Dr. Loi's ongoing tests, the report that the exhaled vapor contains only a miniscule amount of nicotine etc. There may be a fight coming on with the WHO and other orgs, and it would be good to have the material supporting the cause all in one place for htose who are skeptical of the safety of esmoking to come to to view and find out for themselves that esmoking isn't the horror they have predetermined it to be

 

[Kate]

... this is NOT "E-Smoking" that we are doing but "E-Vaping" - good point, well spotted.

Here is a link to a thread with all the currently known research and reports - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-e-cig-related-legal-medical-information.html

 

[Nazareth]

ah cool- thanks- I rarely go to hte other forums and missed that htread- I just click on "Today's Posts" when I come here and don't pay attention to what forum the threads are in lol

 

[Kimmiegrif]

Hi again, what about the:

Interim Safety Report on the Ruyan® e-cigarette
Murray Laugesen
Health New Zealand Ltd

I contacted Janty and their customer service provided me with this report. They said that they had to summit this report to the Italian Govt to get the okay to sell electronic cigarettes there. Bottom line...this was sufficient enough for the Italian Govt. I am sure you all are aware of this report, since I am a newbie, It is a document that made me more comfortable using electronic cigarettes especially Janty/ruyan models.

If there is any reports that other manufacturer's have done on their product, please share it with me. I can never get too much info to help me feel comfortable with choices I make. I was so excited about electronic cigarettes, so excited that the ebayer and saleswoman in me spontaneously... bought a domain name. My intention was going to sell electronic cigarettes...within 2 days of my purchasing the domain name, WHO came out with their statements. I also found that there are all ready very professional suppliers available in the USA. I decided not to sell them. I am going to just park the site, maybe someone will buy it one day.

I would love for this WHO evaluation to keep everyone honest and non toxic. I don't want to be told, I can't buy and have the products shipped to the USA. It's not fair! I just recently found this nifty gadget.

It makes sense...if it is marketed as helping those quit, it will then qualify as some kind of "medical item" with lots of restrictions. So...WHO needs lots of qualified labs test and report on the toxicity of ingesting atomized nicotine and PG. It would be awesome if those reports were done and then WHO could complete this investagation, and state... that they the electronic cigarette doesn't pose a health threat to the level actual cigarette smoking does. That electronic cigarettes have not been proven as tools for quitting nicotine addiction at this time. That the use of nicotine has blah blah blah health risks...that the atomization of PG has been found to have no known medical risks at this moment, PG atomized ingestion has been done in public locations by masses for many years in the form of commerical Fog Machines. This form of ingestion is temporary and not as concentrated, since concentrations of these chemicals atomized is a new form of dispersal there needs to be continuous monitoring of the affects of this type of ingestion of nicotine and PG. ...

Do I sound like a "know it all"? I just really like this electronic vaping and would hate to have it taken away. But I do want to have whatever research is out there to review and understand.

So, I can see that on one hand promoting and contacting WHO about our quitting success, will not be as benifical as actual clinical chemical break downs of the vapor and its affect on human ingestion.

 

[supermig]

I have the contacts details of WHO at my office... I'll get them in the next 48 hours and will post them here so as you suggest, it could be helpful to send them (or have a direct chat with them, especially if you are a doc) the different studies available so far.
Also I agree that some lab tests like the Pillbox's lab test results could be communicated to them for instance, this would probably help the WHO to have a better vision of the future of e-liquid. So they can see that people in western countries are putting a lot of energy and money into improving the product and increasing the transparency of the content of e-liquid.
That's the path to follow i guess... to work hand in hand with regulatories and health bodies to develop something cautionned and recommended as a safe altenative (and/or a therapy to quit smoking)

----) Kate

"Stéfanie's view that esmoking history is not good ". I never had the feeling she had a negative impression on e-cigs, but the lack of transparency regarding the cartridge components, and also the possible future consequences of inhalating those liquids, (no track records nor historial), was worrying them. And also the fact that they have identified a jungle of unscrupulous sellers in the web that pretend that e-cig is recommended by the WHO

C U

 

[Nazareth]

I dunno supermig- Yeah, I'm sure they are ligitimately concerned abotu what is being inhaled, however, there is a deeper underlying issue they have adopted too and that is that anythign cig-like isn't good- anti-smokers have no doubt aligned themselves with hte WHO, and have enough clout and capital to sway the WHO whereas ecig producers and consumers don't- We're at hte mercy of those who's intestines turn inside out whenever they see anyhtign that even remotely resembles smoking

 

[TropicalBob]

That is such an important point, Naz, and all too true. If it resembles smoking, it will not get support from health or regulatory agencies. The nicotine inhaler (sold only by prescription) was almost rejected by the FDA because the unit looked somewhat like a cigarette.

The aginners absolutely do not want to look out over a public park and see someone sucking a cigarette-like device and exhaling a cloud of .. vapor. It just ruins their idea of how things should be.

This will not be the stated reason e-cigs are opposed, of course. It will lack of long-term testing, lack of transparency with Chinese manufacturing, dangers of nicotine solutions to children and pets, and no proof that these are either effective smoking cessation devices or safe alternatives to products already approved and on the market.

 

[supermig]

Hello everybody,

As promised, i give you the contacts of the WHO person in charge of the electronic cigarette dssier:

Dr. DOMBGO FU - WHO
- doctor expert in toxicology matters
-speaks english
tel +41 22 791 40 75

GEMMA VESTAL - WHO
-in charge of the electronic cigarette dossier, preparing the next conference that will take place in November and where they will discuss the electronic cigarette.
-speakes english
tel +41 22 791 47 05

Please, if anybody call them (ideally a doc), I would be grateful if you coud give us here the feedback on your conversation.

C U

Supermig

 

[Kate]

I wonder if Dr Loi or TBob would be prepared to contact them on our behalf, it would make sense to have one representative present our case rather than have many fragmented accounts.

Good work Supermig.

 

[TropicalBob]

Dr. Loi clearly has the credentials to be believable, both by his degree and his research. And WHO seemed unaware of Dr. Murray Laugesen's research in New Zealand. Those two could help put WHO reps on the right track for factual, not anecdotal, information.

 

[jimldk]

Hello everybody,

As promised, i give you the contacts of the WHO person in charge of the electronic cigarette dssier:

Dr. DOMBGO FU - WHO
- doctor expert in toxicology matters
-speaks english
tel +41 22 791 40 75

GEMMA VESTAL - WHO
-in charge of the electronic cigarette dossier, preparing the next conference that will take place in November and where they will discuss the electronic cigarette.
-speakes english
tel +41 22 791 47 05

Please, if anybody call them (ideally a doc), I would be grateful if you coud give us here the feedback on your conversation.

C U

Supermig

Thanks for the info...I will try to get in touch with these two....I wish you have also their email address too....

My trials even though small has already shown significant discovery and the most important part is the safety aspect but unfortunately it also shows it potential abuse....I am myself in a dilemma ...and because e-liquids are not pharmaceutical grade or approved..it will be touch and go situation...or some of you Americans says "Catch 22" situation.....

Grateful for all your help and especially to all the forum members who contributed their reports and questions which actually help a lot...included the good and bad arguments....all taken with a pinch of salt.....thanks...

 

[supermig]

I was just wondering...

 

[Grumpysanta]

I realise it has not been a full month yet but have there been any devopments ?

 

[jimldk]

I was just wondering...

I tried calling them...but was put on hold for so many times until I gave up .....my total cost for overseas call is more than my expenses for my e-cig liquids......anyway, I left them a message to call me back..that was 2 weeks ago..still no reply....it is not over yet....will get my ministry people to help out....getting my toxicology report ready by my Govertnment Chemical / Toxicology department...still waiting for those too...hmmm...I am a very patient man normally but sometimes...sigh....there is a limit to it..

 

[supermig]

I am 100% sure I am not the only one thinking about the WHO meeting coming next week... ;-) I hope we'll have their conclusions or at least the speech contents very shortly after the meeting. Let's cross fingers !!!Anyway, I'll try to call the WHO in geneva in the following 48 hours. I'll keep you posted !
C U you soon

 

[dazzer1975]

The W.H.O. have only been dragged into this, at least publicly and in this time frame as a result of these Chinese sellers detailing in print the W.H.O.'s recommendation of these e-cigs.

We only have the Chinese and their business practices to blame if the who rightly decide to make a point about their name being used.

Even Ruyan claim endorsement from W.H.O.

while this continues, and it is doing, the W.H.O. will only ever be interested in shutting these cowboys down.

If they take a tough stance on e smoking you can't blame them with the industry they are working with.

 

[Bertrand]

I think I would probably welcome the regulations if they were reasonable. I would be much more comfortable buying components and nicotine solution from Pfizer or Bayer than cheap-ecigs-they-real-good.com

 

[dc2k08]

my total cost for overseas call is more than my expenses for my e-cig liquids

get skype doc, 1cent/minute to landlines most countries, 10cent+ for cell...easy-peasy.

 

[Bertrand]

get skype doc, 1cent/minute to landlines most countries, 10cent+ for cell...easy-peasy.

Probably doesn't want to talk to a senior consultant at WHO with a conversation that begins "Sorry? I can't hear you <brr brr>.. It's echoing. Oh, that's better... There seems to be a delay..."