New study on vapor and immune response in mice

[LaraC]

nopatch, I think you understood quite well that AndriaD's "he" was referring to one of the scientists that did the study itself.

She was not referring to the very intelligent doctor (Dr. Farsalinos) who was criticizing the study.

I took your "Long live the Dr." as sarcasm.

I very much doubt that AndriaD was agreeing with your original post's assessment of Dr. Farsalinos as "Not such a bright fellow, I have to say."

 

[AndriaD]

nopatch, I think you understood quite well that AndriaD's "he" was referring to one of the scientists that did the study itself.

She was not referring to the very intelligent doctor (Dr. Farsalinos) who was criticizing the study.

I took your "Long live the Dr." as sarcasm.

I very much doubt that AndriaD was agreeing with your original post's assessment of Dr. Farsalinos as "Not such a bright fellow, I have to say."

You're right, Lara; Dr Farsolinos is at least doing REAL SCIENCE with regard to e-cigs, rather than just making up any old BS that strikes his fancy -- as the idiot apparently was doing who was blathering about "immunomodulatory effects".

Anyone who doesn't understand what Dr Farsolinos is doing, or who thinks he is "not such a bright fellow," really ought to go play in the kiddie pool, and leave the grownups alone.

Andria

 

[Skylare]

sorry i didn't read the thread but this did catch my eye they put the same nic lvls into mice as a human?? seems a little faulty to me!

 

[BuGlen]

Just found this link for an article from Dr. Bernd Mayer in a Disqus comments thread:

Electronic Cigarettes and Airway Infections - Update - Bernd Mayer

However, nobody would have cared about this result, and no journal would have accepted the paper if the authors had replaced “electronic cigarettes” in the title by “nicotine”. It has been known for decades that nicotine has anti-inflammatory effects associated with mild immune suppression in mice and rats (e.g. Roszman et al., 1975, Petro et al., 1992, Geng et al., 1996, Kalra et al., 2000, Navarro et al., 2001, Matsunaga et al., 2001, Kalra et al., 2002, Kalra et al., 2004, Skok et al., 2005, Sadis et al., 2007, Fujii et al., 2008, Hirschburger et al., 2009, Tyagi et al., 2010, Wang et al., 2010, de Lucas-Cerillo et al., 2011, Kolgazi et al., 2013, Nemethova et al., 2013).

These reports may look promising, but immune function of mice and rats translates poorly to the human condition, a well-known nuisance for experimental immunologists involved in drug development (see e.g Mestas & Hughes, 2004, Shai et al., 2013). So far, no nicotinic receptor agonist has made it to market, and there is not a trace of evidence that nicotine replacement therapy is associated with impaired immune function. Thus, there is no reason to worry that nicotine consumption, either by consumption of FDA-approved medicines or inhalation of nicotine containing vapor, might cause significant immune suppression.

 

[AndriaD]

Just found this link for an article from Dr. Bernd Mayer in a Disqus comments thread:

Electronic Cigarettes and Airway Infections - Update - Bernd Mayer

Also... if the immune response is suppressed, that is *sometimes* a good thing, as our human immune systems are sometimes too sensitive, and to substances which are not actually harmful -- which is exactly the cause of allergy. And now that I think on it, when I first started smoking in my early teens, my "hay fever" type allergies were still a huge PITA, but smoking seemed to calm the symptoms considerably.

In the "old days," people thought "fever" was the actual cause of death, and it may well have been, because high fevers can cause lethal conditions in a body -- but the fever was actually the body's immune response to a pathogen. Same for that Spanish Flu that had at least a 25% mortality rate, in 1918-ish -- it was the rapid and drastic immune response to that virus which actually killed people.

RA is another condition in which the body's own immune system is wreaking havoc -- and I think RA sufferers have a very hard time quitting smoking, because of it. There's another alkaloid in tobacco that shows promise as an anti-inflammatory, anabasine -- it's one of the trace alkaloids in WTA, and is being tested as an anti-inflammatory on its own.

Andria

 

[Racehorse]

Whenever I eat free radicals, I try to follow it up with some blueberries or kale.
Am I doing it right, or am I deluding myself?

I'm already old and *oxidized*, not sure it would help me, but I do have a great recipe for Kale Chips.

Yes, I've actually made them

I live in a dry county, but I would say follow it up with a good swig of whatever is your pleasure.

 

[Racehorse]

It's FAR better for me than "clean mountain air"... at any altitude over about 3500-4000 ft, I can't breathe at all. Denver nearly killed me, and I didn't even have asthma then. Would hate to think how bad it would be for me now.

heh. You just touched on one of my hobbies...I have read everything ever written about the climbs to Everest.......and pretty much own ever movie and documentary on that subject that was ever made. (I have no idea WHY, I have never had an inclination to climb or anything, it just fascinates me.)
Indeed though, elevation in those terms are *killing*. Both on physiology, but also brain.....climbers would describe that just taking one step required their complete and utter concentration. Of course, many used to climb sans oxygen. Few do nowadays.

 

[Racehorse]

Propylene glycol in e cigarettes might keep us healthy, says researchers

I do want to point out, however, that I have read a few studies where really bad stuff was GROWN in PG solution.......it's really not as germacidal as one would think.......and only against *certain* organisms. In other words, don't rest on your laurels by not practicing good hygeine.

 

[DC2]

I do want to point out, however, that I have read a few studies where really bad stuff was GROWN in PG solution......

Tell me more please?

I often beat the drum regarding the anti-microbial properties of propylene glycol.
I'd be very interested in seeing where I might be wrong though.

 

[AndriaD]

heh. You just touched on one of my hobbies...I have read everything ever written about the climbs to Everest.......and pretty much own ever movie and documentary on that subject that was ever made. (I have no idea WHY, I have never had an inclination to climb or anything, it just fascinates me.)
Indeed though, elevation in those terms are *killing*. Both on physiology, but also brain.....climbers would describe that just taking one step required their complete and utter concentration. Of course, many used to climb sans oxygen. Few do nowadays.

I can believe it, just from my difficulties in the "mile high" city. I just checked, to be sure of my facts, and the place where I live is somewhere between 1060-1080 ft -- sources differ -- so it's possible that anything over about 2500ft would be difficult for me, now that I have asthma. Asthma is extremely unforgiving!!

But, someone raised at that altitude would probably find an altitude less than 2000ft to be intolerable.

Andria

 

[nopatch]

Tell me more please?

I often beat the drum regarding the anti-microbial properties of propylene glycol.
I'd be very interested in seeing where I might be wrong though.

This may help : Propylene Glycol as a heat transfer fluid and antifreeze

reason for using at least 25% Propylene Glycol in the system concerns the possibility of bacterial growth. With concentrations at or above 20%, both Ethylene and Propylene Glycol inhibit the growth and proliferation of most microbes and fungi. The reduced surface tension in the glycol solution interrupts the cell walls of the bacteria, resulting in an environment that will not support bacterial growth. At very low glycol concentrations, for example below 1%, both Ethylene and Propylene Glycol act as a nutrient for bacteria. At these concentrations, bacteria will biodegrade the Propylene Glycol causing rapid growth of bacterial contamination. At levels above 1 and below 20%, some bacteria can survive with limited growth, especially at moderate temperatures.

 

[DC2]

This may help : Propylene Glycol as a heat transfer fluid and antifreeze

reason for using at least 25% Propylene Glycol in the system concerns the possibility of bacterial growth. With concentrations at or above 20%, both Ethylene and Propylene Glycol inhibit the growth and proliferation of most microbes and fungi. The reduced surface tension in the glycol solution interrupts the cell walls of the bacteria, resulting in an environment that will not support bacterial growth. At very low glycol concentrations, for example below 1%, both Ethylene and Propylene Glycol act as a nutrient for bacteria. At these concentrations, bacteria will biodegrade the Propylene Glycol causing rapid growth of bacterial contamination. At levels above 1 and below 20%, some bacteria can survive with limited growth, especially at moderate temperatures.

Thanks.

Glad my concentrations of propylene glycol are generally 50% at the very least.


I guess an interesting question would be...
What happens when there is a low level of propylene glycol, but the rest is vegetable glycerine?

Especially given that vegetable glycerine is also a pretty good anti-bacterial.

 

[nopatch]

There is no problem with bacterial growth as far as e-liquid is concerned since water content is low.When Vg gets deposited inside respiratory and connected parts then it provides a base for bacteria to grow.It depends on person to person based on natural fauna(or flora whatever it is called).10% vg in water grows bacteria in no time.

 

[nopatch]

but what about the study where it was said it could cause
severe viral infection of the lungs?
just kidding. that's the only one the sheeple
will remember.
regards
mike

Pg protects your lungs from infection as long as it IS present in the lungs. You are vulnerable when the PG is not present in your lungs like when you are sleeping i.e. If the study is true.