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New to diy

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by Jonnybarr91, Feb 8, 2018.

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  1. Jonnybarr91

    Jonnybarr91 Full Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    Those who make your own juices,
    Is there a certain brand you like to use?

    I’ve started mixing my own and using mainly Capella atm but there suggested percentage is 15-20% mix which is quite high compared to others ? I like my flavour strong so having to make a 70vg/30pg with around 25% of it being flavouring.

    Any advice will be great !

    I’ve only really got fruit and berry flavours
     
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  2. AzPlumber

    AzPlumber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2011
    Arizona
    Other than the super concentrated alcohol based flavors, Flavourart is probably the most concentrated.
     
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  3. Letitia

    Letitia Therion/Nano Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Agree with recommended Flavourart. Flavorah has strong concentrates and Wonder Flavor super concentrates are good as well. Purlium flavors from Nicotine River are also good. Most all brands have some stronger flavors.
     
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  4. PJReid

    PJReid The Boozy Wench Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 2, 2013
    LakeRidge, VA, USA
    I saw your first post about this, and the recipe you posted. That post seems to have been deleted now. CAP flavors are, for the most part, very good. I don't remember all of the flavors in the recipe you posted as an example but did notice you were using Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy at 10% and steeping. Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy is a pronounced flavor in a shake and vape and gets stronger when steeped, basically overpowering anything else in the mix. There is a phenomenon of too much flavoring producing less overall flavor. That might seem counterintuitive, but it is true.

    Post your CAP flavors in this thread and that recipe again. All of the flavor percentages were quite high. I can make some recommendations and am sure others will do the same. Mixing is fun but there is a lot of chemistry in getting it right.
     
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  5. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Flavorart is generally considered a "strong" concentrate, but what matters most is you understanding the flavors you are mixing, and the steeping method needed. It's easy to overflavor just going on a "general" recommendation, or "general" principles, you have to understand your ingredients and that takes time. It's quite common to overflavor in the beginning when not understanding how flavors interact (some containing ethyl maltol, for example can mute other flavors if used too heavily), others can bring out certain characteristics in a particular flavor.

    I started very slowly, with single flavor mixes that I would combine in my tank. I also sampled a lot of store bought and read a lot of recipes to get a sense of how things go together. It's a slower startup for sure, but for me it was well worth it to "understand" my flavors AS building blocks and how they go together. I've mixed quite a few things, and there was only one or two "recipes" I made that couldn't be fixed with enough time and patience. Understanding-- and tasting-- ones flavors as they steep really makes a difference in my opinion. Of course, there is also the other option of choosing pre-made recipes and following them, and that works well for some folks.

    My guess is you are over-flavoring, causing a kind of "dead flavor" situation in your mix. Too much flavor can actually be worse than too little.

    Anna
     
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  6. Nikhforos

    Nikhforos Senior Member

    Jan 29, 2018
    Should you have the time and money to play around a bit with your flavors, try to make small 5-10ml single-flavored bottles and taste them after 1 week. (custards and creams would usually need some more time, Ideally 2,5 weeks). Close your eyes and taste the flavors one by one, thinking how would each of them combine or blend with the rest. Notice how some flavors will do better at smaller mixes(2-3 flavors in total) and how others will do quite better in bigger mixes( 5-6 flavors). You'll get a decent idea of how strong each flavor is and how you'd need to combine them in order to have a smooth vape. Also, keep in mind that you WILL fail a lot. That's the way to go, don't worry. Keep on mixing/reading. Note : Don't use nic in your testing mixes, no need to. If your nic is over 12-13mg/ml , I'd increase the % of each flavor by 1-1,5% . Good luck bud.
     
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  7. Jonnybarr91

    Jonnybarr91 Full Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    Thanks for the help so far! Good advice here !

    Here are the flavours of Capella I have

    blueberry extra
    Blue raspberry cotton candy
    Juicy peach
    Glazed donut
    Raspberry
    Harvest berry
    Wild cherry
    Black cherry
    Sweet strawberry
    Concord grape

    I also have
    FW blue raspberry

    Here some of the mixes I have made also

    Blueberry donut
    70vg30pg
    20%blueberry
    10% glazed donut

    This tasted pretty good after 1 week so far

    Blue raspberry cotton candy
    70vg30pg
    13%blue raspberry
    10% blue raspberry cotton candy
    4%blueberry extra
    3%raspbery

    This don’t taste as nice as would like to a little bland 2 week steep

    Very berry
    70vg30pg
    Harvest berry 20%
    Sweet strawberry 10%

    This tasted pretty good but think just needs some sweetener

    CAPELLA SAYS 15-20% mix ration for there concentrates I have tried some with lower percentages but flavour is even lower.

    I have also tried the blue raspberry as a stand-alone at 18% and that’s not strong enough ??

    There you go that’s what I have done so far
    Thankyou!
     
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  8. Jonnybarr91

    Jonnybarr91 Full Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    I also have not been putting any nic in but when I do it will only be 1-3mg per 50ml
    I have been making 10ml samples
     
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  9. Nikhforos

    Nikhforos Senior Member

    Jan 29, 2018
    The ''blue rasberry cotton candy'' recipe seems pretty heavy to be honest. You have mixed 4 flavors that more or less will lead you to the same taste. Try : rasberry-4% , sweet strawberry(CAP)- 10% , donut- 5% and i ideally bavarian cream at 3% . Never created that, but it's the best i can make out of the ingredients you have right now
     
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  10. PJReid

    PJReid The Boozy Wench Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 2, 2013
    LakeRidge, VA, USA
    Thanks for reposting your recipes that you have tried and the ingredients that you have on hand. I do have some ideas for you and will come back and post later. I am in the middle of mixing myself and need to finish this up. :)
     
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  11. dc99

    dc99 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 17, 2014
    earth
    First I think you may have mistaken what cap meant by 15-20%. Every flavor doesnt need to be anywhere near that high. Maybe 15-20% total flavoring. The blue raspberry CC most likely muted itself. A lot of times to much just leads to what we refer to as muting. In other words they sort of cancel each other out. All the flavorings have a ceiling where they are as strong as they can be. Cap sweet strawberry for instance tops out at 8% for me. Anything more and it just gets nasty until I cant taste it at all.
     
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  12. mcclintock

    mcclintock Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2014
    Of the very few Capella flavors I use, I prefer 4% or less, at 5% they tend to turn dark within weeks. This is good because it reduces diketones -- I don't consider their V2 versions usable.
     
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  13. PJReid

    PJReid The Boozy Wench Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 2, 2013
    LakeRidge, VA, USA
    Okay, mixing done for the day. I KNOW that you are using WAY too much Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy at 10%. I put some into a Blue Slush I mixed for a friend at 1%. He said it was good, but that the Cotton Candy overwhelmed everything after it sat for a bit.

    I think are you mixing your flavors at too high a % of the mix. Take your Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy recipe. At 10%, the Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy is probably overpowering your other flavors. I would recommend cutting it back to no more than 2%. Something like this:
    Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy
    FW Blue Raspberry 4%
    CAP Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy 2%
    CAP Blueberry Extra 3%
    Sweetener (whatever you use) 1 to 2%

    On your glazed blueberry donut, that is tough. Many people say that CAP Glazed Donut tastes like Play-Doh at just 4%. Maybe try cutting that back to 3%, take your Blueberry down to 3%, add in some TFA Blueberry Wild at 3%, Bavarian Cream 2%, CAP Vanilla Custard 3%, and Marshmallow at 1%.

    Those are just a couple of suggestions. Obviously mixing is a personal taste kind of thing but there is no doubt that you lose flavor by going too high. It is also important to have some texture in the mix for mouthfeel, fullness, etc.

    Do you use an online e-liquid calculator? If you key all of your flavors into E-Liquid dash recipes dot com (make the dash a - and the dot a .) then you can use the "What Can I Make" feature. There are a lot of great recipes there that should give you some ideas.
     
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  14. PJReid

    PJReid The Boozy Wench Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 2, 2013
    LakeRidge, VA, USA
    With a few additions to what you posted, you could do a Berry Blend - you need the marshmallow for body and mouthfeel. The Smooth or Vape Wizard adds body and blends the sharp notes of the berries. Just a thought on what you have.

    Blueberry Extra (CAP) 5%
    Harvest Berry (CAP) 5%
    Koolada 10% 1%
    Marshmallow 2%
    Smooth (TPA) or Vape Wizard (FA) 1%
    Raspberry CAP 2.5%
    Strawberry (CAP) 2.5%
    Sweetener .5 to 1% (depending on which you use)

    You could probably do something interesting with the Juicy Peach, Black Cherry, some Marshmallow, and sweetener.
     
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  15. Jonnybarr91

    Jonnybarr91 Full Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    I will have a try with that, I’ll get the bits you said I don’t have and give it a go thanks mate
     
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  16. Jonnybarr91

    Jonnybarr91 Full Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    Thankyou everyone so far it’s really helped me and I think I understand a lot more now ! I will buy few other concentrates etc and make a few of these flavours you suggest at the percentages you suggest! Also I do use a online liquid calculator when I do ind the measurements etc it’s all a learning curve aye !
     
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  17. IDJoel

    IDJoel Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2015
    Boise, ID
    Hi @Jonnybarr91 , and welcome to the ECF community!

    PJ asked, but I didn't see your response; where did you buy your flavor concentrates? Was it from a local shop, or on line? It can help us give you better info if we know where you are buying.

    A note about the "15-20%"recommendations:
    Some (many?) of the major flavor concentrate manufacturers were around long before vaping. The majority of their customers sales come from (and are directed to) the food and beverage industries. It is for that use you are seeing such high percentages (not vaping). I generally ignore them completely; unless they are coming from a vaping specific (and vaping only) website. And then, I still take them with a grain of salt. I also read the buyer reviews (when available) to see what they are saying worked for them.

    PJ gave you a useful resource when she suggested E-Liquid-Recipes (ELR) website. Besides being able to create a personal flavor stash, to search for recipes using only your ingredients; you can use the Flavor List (found under the Resource Tab), to see how others are using any particular flavor. This includes minimum/maximum and average percentage used. This is what you Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy looks like (in part):
    upload_2018-2-9_3-37-14.png

    PLEASE keep in mind:
    The "pecentages in recipes" values are based only on the recipes entered on ELR; and they are based on all recipes on ELR. This includes good recipes, bad recipes, and works in progress. So this info is "broad brush" at best. But at least it can give some idea of what others are doing. It also isn't able to tell you if it is being used as a primary flavor (the main taste), a secondary flavor (complimentary, contrasting, or supplemental tastes), or only as an adjunct (not really there to add "taste," but to influence the rest of the mix (e.g. soften harsh notes; add sweetness, juiciness, mouthfeel).

    Regarding single flavor percentages; I tend to give this little influence on my mixing decisions. It is not uncommon to see only 10, or fewer, users opinions. And when they may range from 1% to 30% (or more) that really isn't helping me much.

    In general terms, I tend to start at the lower end of the spectrum, and add s l o w l y, in small increments, until I find my sweet spot.

    Another useful tip for ELR:
    I find, that when entering a flavor name to search, it is best to not identify the vendor. There are just too many ways people choose to do it (and each variation creates a "new" ingredient profile.

    Instead, to find the most commonly used format, I enter the name (completely and accurately), and then hit search. The results will come up in alphanumeric order. Here's an example for raspberry:
    upload_2018-2-9_4-43-58.png

    Chances are the one you want is not going to be on top (not even on the first page many times). So, to bring up the most frequently used (in recipes) by clicking on the recipe bar/tab, and it will resort the ingredients, in order of frequency found in recipes. It now looks like this:
    upload_2018-2-9_4-55-57.png

    Now I can click on the flavor name, and it will open a window, with the details for that ingredient.

    The intent of sorting in this manner, is to find the most common entry method, and therefore get the biggest sample group for the flavor. The bigger the sample group; the better chance of smoothing out the influence of unusually high/low usage on Percentage averages. It will also (hopefully) provide more feedback in the "Notes" section found below the averages.

    Using this sorting technique is also a good idea when creating your own flavor stash too. If not, and you select one of the unpopular formats (even though it is a popular flavor), you will get significantly fewer recipe suggestions (or even none at all).

    For further help using the ELR site; I would refer you to their own forums.

    A final note on ELR:
    ELR is a bit persona non grata on ECF. Please don't ask why; just take it as fact. The administration sets the rules, and we have the choice to follow them, or go elsewhere. It is tolerated to mention by name, or its common ELR abbreviation. Even screenshots from ELR are acceptable, as I have done above (just don't include the URL address bar; or header in your screenshot). But, writing out the URL (???.com), or attaching a link to their site is prohibited, and usually gets automatically filtered out. The result will be a string of periods (.....................). If you see that, just don't do it again.;)
     
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  18. Jonnybarr91

    Jonnybarr91 Full Member

    Feb 7, 2018

    Wow some read that and also very helpful!
    The answer to where I get my concentrates from is a online shop called Rainbowvapes in the UK where I live
     
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  19. Letitia

    Letitia Therion/Nano Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    +1 for joining ELR recipes. Invaluable tools for new and experienced mixers. Like here on ECF the people are very helpful as well.
     
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  20. JCinFLA

    JCinFLA Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 21, 2015
    Because your flavorings list is all "primary" or main flavorings...I'd also suggest getting some of the secondary or "blender" flavorings, and also some TFA Sweetener, or CAP Super Sweet, or a different branded one. Some of the pretty commonly used "blender" flavorings are: Marshmallow, Vanilla Swirl, Meringue, Bavarian Cream, Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, Sweet Cream, etc.
     
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