New vaper needs DIY advice

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Vape1000RR

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Jul 6, 2016
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Whats up guys. Hope everyone is doing well. I'm new to whole vaping scene as it has helped become analog free since the 28th of last month. Now, I was completely aware of the regulations happening in August, but did not know the intensity until recently. So as some members advised, I should learn how to DIY.

Well, to start, I've skimmed about the 100 drop system / ry4?? Not too sure as I didn't read in depth yet. I was looking into buying my supplies for DIY soon. If I'm correct , all I need is:

PG
VG
nicotine base (100mg/ml)
flavoring
Equipment such as syringe, scale, etc

Now, if this is it, where is the most common place to get flavors besides MBV? I was going to purchase the PG, VG, and NN Armor v2.0 as recommended from another user from NudeNicotine. Is this fine or are there better alternatives.

Also, if I am vaping at say 20/80 or 15/85 PG/VG, should I get the nic base and flavoring in max VG? I've heard since we now have calculators, it is very easy to make DIY juice as long as you are accurate and providing the right steeping?

Sorry if this is all scattered. I wrote this on my phone. I will edit and write more in depth when I get on my PC.

Thank you guys!
 

sofarsogood

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 12, 2014
5,553
14,168
Whats up guys. Hope everyone is doing well. I'm new to whole vaping scene as it has helped become analog free since the 28th of last month. Now, I was completely aware of the regulations happening in August, but did not know the intensity until recently. So as some members advised, I should learn how to DIY.

Well, to start, I've skimmed about the 100 drop system / ry4?? Not too sure as I didn't read in depth yet. I was looking into buying my supplies for DIY soon. If I'm correct , all I need is:

PG
VG
nicotine base (100mg/ml)
flavoring
Equipment such as syringe, scale, etc

Now, if this is it, where is the most common place to get flavors besides MBV? I was going to purchase the PG, VG, and NN Armor v2.0 as recommended from another user from NudeNicotine. Is this fine or are there better alternatives.

Also, if I am vaping at say 20/80 or 15/85 PG/VG, should I get the nic base and flavoring in max VG? I've heard since we now have calculators, it is very easy to make DIY juice as long as you are accurate and providing the right steeping?

Sorry if this is all scattered. I wrote this on my phone. I will edit and write more in depth when I get on my PC.

Thank you guys!
There is lots of uncertainty about how the regulations will effect things after 8-8. A lot of people are taking no chances and stocking up before that but may be most or all products will be available the same as always after 8-8.

If you want to take precautions you don't have to learn DIY right now but you might want to put some nic in the freezer for the time when you are ready or need to DIY. Most people are buying 100mg nic (10%) in 1 liter bottles and paying about $50. I bought mine from myfreedomsmokes.com. There are other suppliers. I transfer the nic to an amber glass bottle, label, into a zip lock bag, surrounded by a bit of thin buble wrap and into the freezer it goes. 3 liters will keep me vaping for about 11 years.
 

IDJoel

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 20, 2015
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Boise, ID
Whats up guys. Hope everyone is doing well. I'm new to whole vaping scene as it has helped become analog free since the 28th of last month.
Hi Vape1000RR,
Welcome, and congratulations on going smoke-free!
I was looking into buying my supplies for DIY soon. If I'm correct , all I need is:

PG
VG
nicotine base (100mg/ml)
flavoring
Equipment such as syringe, scale, etc
That's it in a nutshell. You will also need something to mix into. I would add basic personal safety equipment (nitrile/latex/vinyl gloves and eye protection). Also, a scale would go into the "optional" catagory; it is only needed if you choose to measure by weight. (The two most common methods of measuring is by weight (using a scale) and by volume (using syringes). Either is fine and both have their supporters. If you are just beginning to experiment and not sure if DIY is going to be for you; volume/syringes is the cheaper way to start (a scale is going to set you back an additional $20 or more depending on the capacity you want{and you will still most likely want syringes as applicators if you choose weighing later on}).
Now, if this is it, where is the most common place to get flavors besides MBV? I was going to purchase the PG, VG, and NN Armor v2.0 as recommended from another user from NudeNicotine. Is this fine or are there better alternatives.
Afraid I am not familiar with MBV.

NN is very well thought of and has a reputation for having some of the "cleanest"(tasteless, odorless) nicotine offered by US vendors. They also sell packaging that is freezer ready. That said the are the second most expensive and some of their packaging starts leaning toward the gimmicky side of this (my opinion). If money is not a concern there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. And, as I said, they have a very large following.

For someone who is just beginning to explore DIY; I like to recommend Wizard Labs. They will have everything you need to get started, at a lower cost, and in smaller volumes (in the case of flavors) with a broader selections. They carry a majority of the main flavor manufacturers you will find used in the recipes here on ECF. Their nicotine is not as "clean"(it has a little more flavor to it) as NN but many still find it quite acceptable. There only big shortcoming is they do not carry Flavor Arts flavorings.

Bull City Vapor is another popular site. Their only down-side is they don't offer nicotine and their mixing equipment is kind of limited.

As @Zipslack posted, RTS is another popular one. Their strong suit is they have some of the least expensive nicotine on the market right now. They also carry a good selection of flavoring (though I have noticed some missing from more than one of the manufactures; I don't know if that is because they are out of stock or if it is just not in their interest {too much inventory to carry/not profitable}). I have not yet tried their nicotine so I can't give you an opinion but it has been said it is comparable to Wizard Labs. I did order 2 liters of 100mg/mL from RTS for my "hedge fund" if that says anything.

The last one I will mention, as a one-and-done site, is My Freedom Smokes. They are another one that has a pretty big following here on ECF. They are also the one I know the least about. From reading other threads here on ECF they have a reputation of having one of the strongest tasting nicotines of the US vendors. Though, of late, that may not the case any more. Again; this is a vendor I have not used as yet, nor have I vaped their nicotine, so this is just my here-say.

I have shopped with WL, BCV, and RTS. In my opinion all are reputable and I still do business with all of them today.

A note on nicotine: for a component that is thought of as a non-flavor, it can vary quite a bit, and be VERY subjective to the individual user. Some users can use ANY nic and others find nuances in it like fine wines. Some even will intentionally age/oxidize it to impart additional flavor.
Also, when reading threads on nicotine you will frequently hear references to it being "clean." This usually refers to taste, or absence thereof, and not reference to the presence of impurities. Flavors most often associated to nicotine are pepper, tobacco, and sometimes and "off" or plastic-like taste. There are a lot of other descriptions that you will see if you do a bit of research. A good place to start is the Nicotine Comparison thread. It is huge but well worth a read if you want to get an understanding of what is out there. I would also recommend not going back any more than six months as any vendor's product can, and will likely, change over a period of time.
I should also provide the disclaimer that I am NOT a nicotine connoisseur. I have used WL nicotine for the year plus of DIY that I have been mixing. This last month I have branched out and purchased nicotine from RTS and Heartland Vapes but have not yet broken into the bottles to taste.

Also, if I am vaping at say 20/80 or 15/85 PG/VG, should I get the nic base and flavoring in max VG?
I vape routinely at 30/70 and have gone from 12mg to 9mg, to 6mg and use PG based flavors and have never had a problem reaching my desired ratio worth either VG or PG based nicotine. However, I have recently started mixing for a friend of mine, and he is vaping at 18mg AND is sensitive to the dry-mouth PG gives him. With the amount of flavorings used in his all-day vape I can not get the desired amount of VG into his mix using my PG flavorings. Because of that I am going back to VG based nic.

Your base for nic is 99.9% personal preference. Some like PG for convenience (it is thinner/not as viscus and easier to draw uo into a syringe). Others like VG because VG MAY provide a slight benefit for long-term storage (as a more viscus medium the molecules move more slowly and therefore the oxidation reaction will happen more slowly... this opinion is supported by our resident chemist @Kurt).

I guess I should also note here that there are (kinda/sorta) two schools of thought on flavor use; High Flavor Mix/ers (HFM) and Low Flavor Mix/ers (LFM). Those of the HFM camp will routinely mix with total flavor percentages in the 20%-30% (and higher) range liking the ability to "shake and vape" virtually anything they mix. While LFM vapers prefer to mix at total flavor percentages often below 10% (and sometimes as low as1% depending on the flavor and personal preference) accepting the need to steep and avoiding perceived unwanted flavor notes (chemical, harsh, perfume). It is also more cost effective (usually, mL for mL, flavor is the single most expensive ingredient. Followed by nicotine).

Neither is right or wrong. It all depends on what works for you. I started as a HFM but have been moving to more of a LFM as my taste buds have started to recover from smoking.

I mention this because the total amount of flavoring, like everything else, will effect your PG/VG ratio.

If you limit yourself to VG based flavors you will be severely limiting yourself to potential flavors (the majority out there are PG based) AND limiting your direct use of most recipes. This does not mean that there are not recipes out there for VG flavors. And this does not mean you can't adapt PG flavored recipes to similar VG flavors. It is just going to take more experimentation.

If you have an allergy to PG; then you should definitely try to stay with VG flavoring. If Your goal is to blow clouds and taste is secondary; VG flavors might help. If you only care about cloud chasing you might think about skipping flavor altogether and go unflavored... a lot more cost effective and you can mix up ounces in just a few minutes.

Even if clouds aren't your thing, don't disregard unflavored. A few months ago I was suffering from serious vaper's tongue and nothing sounded or tasted good. But I was almost out of juice. I read of quite a few people here who simply vape unflavored; so I said "what the heck." Turns out I like it. I mixed up 120mL of my usual 30/70 and it has just a touch of sweetness (from the VG) and I didn't grow tired of it. Don't get me wrong; it is not the kind of flavor you crave. But, on the other hand, I have never taken a draw and said "not gonna work" either. It is now part of my regular rotation. It also has the added benefit of making it super simple to do single flavor tests.:)

But, if flavor is your primary focus, I wouldn't worry about what base the flavor is in. Every flavor manufacture has flavors I like and flavors I don't. I like manufacturer A's Watermelon better than manufacturer B's. But I like manufacturer B's Vanilla Custard better than manufacturer A's. And it is all subjective. If you are looking for that "perfect" juice you won't know until you try.

I strongly encourage you to find 3 or 4 recipes that you really want to try, look at the total flavor percentage called for, and (if a specific PG/VG ratio is important to you) see if you can attain your desired ratio.

Also, having 3 or 4 recipes will help you home in on what specific flavors you will need to get started.

I did it the wrong way. I went to a web site and started ordering flavors that looked interesting. My first order was 86 FLAVORS! :shock: 19 months later and I still have about a third of them that I haven't even opened! :facepalm::facepalm::censored:
I've heard since we now have calculators, it is very easy to make DIY juice as long as you are accurate and providing the right steeping?
Calculators are a big help. Besides doing the math for you, and showing you the specific milliliters or grams to add, they can manage your recipes and inventory, and give you a place to take notes.

Which brings me to my last soap box (well... for this paragraph at least :lol:). NOTES:As you are learning what works for you (how you measure, how you shake, how you steep, how you taste, what your initial opinions of taste are, what your later opinions are, what worked, WHAT DIDN'T WORK, what you might like to try next time... getting the idea?) W R I T E___E V E R Y T H I N G___D O W N !

I wish I could have the time, and the supplies, I wasted from failing to take good notes. Repeating mistakes and having to take incremental steps to re-find that "sweet spot." I swear that I have at least 2 million dollar recipes floating out there in the ether because I didn't record accurately what I did and I have NEVER been able to recreate them again (sorry; is that redundant? "Recreate" and "again." :eek:).

I'm getting off my soap box now. :D

As for steeping; I will only say don't get too hung up on it. Some flavors truly do require long steeps (horrible word... "blending" would be a better choice) like tobaccos and custards. Other flavors will actually suffer from long resting periods like lemon and other floral/light flavors due to the loss of desired volatile compounds. Flavors with ethyl alcohol need to be "aired out" (left open/caps off) to allow the alcohol to evaporate or they can be quite harsh. Like everything else, it is important to taste early and taste often, to learn what the flavor's characteristics are like.

I hope this has been more help than confusion! :rolleyes:

Welcome again, and good luck on your vaping and DIY journey. :toast:
 

JCinFLA

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 21, 2015
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Well...IDJoel must have been writing his post while I was working on mine, too! No problem though...just gives you more to read! I didn't go back and change any of the following, so some of it may be redundant because of his post.

I agree with sofarsogood above - you need to get Nic Base first, to stash away. That may be difficult to get later, if it'll be available at all, especially at the price it is now! If you're planning to vape at ratios of 20/80 or 15/85 PG/VG...I'd get your nic in a 100% VG base, since that's what your eliquid will have the most of in it, at those ratios. Most flavorings are usually in a PG base, and you'd most likely only need a small amount of plain PG then, too.

But, the PG, VG, and flavorings (except possibly tobacco ones) will still be readily available, as they're all used in making other products that have nothing to do with vaping! So I wouldn't worry about those first.

Also, before you buy a beginner's kit, or syringes, beakers, a scale, a gram weight set, etc. you might want to do more reading to find out which method of mixing you'll want to do. You use different supplies for each way - most people either mix by volume (using various size syringes to measure the liquid ingredients in milliliters, maybe a graduated cylinder, a beaker or 2, etc.), or they mix by weight (using a scale, a set of gram weights, etc.).

I also wouldn't rush to buy flavorings, as it's usually best to find some recipes you want to make, and then buy the flavorings to make them. Doesn't work too well to just pick flavorings that sound good to you, buy them, and then find that you don't really have what it takes to make at least a few recipes, if any at all! Reason for that: Some flavorings are used as primary ones (main flavor in a recipe); some are secondary ones or a blending type of flavor; then some others are used as sweeteners; and then others add some sour to a mix, or a tartness, or a nutty flavor, etc.

You can end up blowing a bunch of money by "jumping the gun" on DIY. It's best to read, read, and read some more. Then check out some blogs (like those by dannyv45 and/or Bill's Magic Vapor, etc.).

But the nic base...yep, I'd definitely be getting some of that ASAP. There are lots of vendors/brands that DIYers use or prefer for it. You might want to read about many of them in the Nicotine Comparison discussion. Some are more peppery and probably better for making tobacco flavored eliquids. Some are smoother than others and are great for all eliquids. And of course, prices do vary greatly, and NN is probably 1 of the top 2 most expensive. I've personally tried My Freedom Smokes, Wizard Labs, and Nude Nicotine's nic base. I put them in order of my preference, with MFS being my least favorite (alittle peppery for me). Wizard and Nude seemed very close to me. I also use Wizard Labs for 99% of my flavorings.

Anyway, I wouldn't dive head first into anything just yet...just get that Nic base first. :D
 

OhTheAgony

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ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Hi Vape1000RR,
Welcome, and congratulations on going smoke-free!

That's it in a nutshell. You will also need something to mix into. I would add basic personal safety equipment (nitrile/latex/vinyl gloves and eye protection). Also, a scale would go into the "optional" catagory; it is only needed if you choose to measure by weight. (The two most common methods of measuring is by weight (using a scale) and by volume (using syringes). Either is fine and both have their supporters. If you are just beginning to experiment and not sure if DIY is going to be for you; volume/syringes is the cheaper way to start (a scale is going to set you back an additional $20 or more depending on the capacity you want{and you will still most likely want syringes as applicators if you choose weighing later on}).

Afraid I am not familiar with MBV.

NN is very well thought of and has a reputation for having some of the "cleanest"(tasteless, odorless) nicotine offered by US vendors. They also sell packaging that is freezer ready. That said the are the second most expensive and some of their packaging starts leaning toward the gimmicky side of this (my opinion). If money is not a concern there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. And, as I said, they have a very large following.

For someone who is just beginning to explore DIY; I like to recommend Wizard Labs. They will have everything you need to get started, at a lower cost, and in smaller volumes (in the case of flavors) with a broader selections. They carry a majority of the main flavor manufacturers you will find used in the recipes here on ECF. Their nicotine is not as "clean"(it has a little more flavor to it) as NN but many still find it quite acceptable. There only big shortcoming is they do not carry Flavor Arts flavorings.

Bull City Vapor is another popular site. Their only down-side is they don't offer nicotine and their mixing equipment is kind of limited.

As @Zipslack posted, RTS is another popular one. Their strong suit is they have some of the least expensive nicotine on the market right now. They also carry a good selection of flavoring (though I have noticed some missing from more than one of the manufactures; I don't know if that is because they are out of stock or if it is just not in their interest {too much inventory to carry/not profitable}). I have not yet tried their nicotine so I can't give you an opinion but it has been said it is comparable to Wizard Labs. I did order 2 liters of 100mg/mL from RTS for my "hedge fund" if that says anything.

The last one I will mention, as a one-and-done site, is My Freedom Smokes. They are another one that has a pretty big following here on ECF. They are also the one I know the least about. From reading other threads here on ECF they have a reputation of having one of the strongest tasting nicotines of the US vendors. Though, of late, that may not the case any more. Again; this is a vendor I have not used as yet, nor have I vaped their nicotine, so this is just my here-say.

I have shopped with WL, BCV, and RTS. In my opinion all are reputable and I still do business with all of them today.

A note on nicotine: for a component that is thought of as a non-flavor, it can vary quite a bit, and be VERY subjective to the individual user. Some users can use ANY nic and others find nuances in it like fine wines. Some even will intentionally age/oxidize it to impart additional flavor.
Also, when reading threads on nicotine you will frequently hear references to it being "clean." This usually refers to taste, or absence thereof, and not reference to the presence of impurities. Flavors most often associated to nicotine are pepper, tobacco, and sometimes and "off" or plastic-like taste. There are a lot of other descriptions that you will see if you do a bit of research. A good place to start is the Nicotine Comparison thread. It is huge but well worth a read if you want to get an understanding of what is out there. I would also recommend not going back any more than six months as any vendor's product can, and will likely, change over a period of time.
I should also provide the disclaimer that I am NOT a nicotine connoisseur. I have used WL nicotine for the year plus of DIY that I have been mixing. This last month I have branched out and purchased nicotine from RTS and Heartland Vapes but have not yet broken into the bottles to taste.


I vape routinely at 30/70 and have gone from 12mg to 9mg, to 6mg and use PG based flavors and have never had a problem reaching my desired ratio worth either VG or PG based nicotine. However, I have recently started mixing for a friend of mine, and he is vaping at 18mg AND is sensitive to the dry-mouth PG gives him. With the amount of flavorings used in his all-day vape I can not get the desired amount of VG into his mix using my PG flavorings. Because of that I am going back to VG based nic.

Your base for nic is 99.9% personal preference. Some like PG for convenience (it is thinner/not as viscus and easier to draw uo into a syringe). Others like VG because VG MAY provide a slight benefit for long-term storage (as a more viscus medium the molecules move more slowly and therefore the oxidation reaction will happen more slowly... this opinion is supported by our resident chemist @Kurt).

I guess I should also note here that there are (kinda/sorta) two schools of thought on flavor use; High Flavor Mix/ers (HFM) and Low Flavor Mix/ers (LFM). Those of the HFM camp will routinely mix with total flavor percentages in the 20%-30% (and higher) range liking the ability to "shake and vape" virtually anything they mix. While LFM vapers prefer to mix at total flavor percentages often below 10% (and sometimes as low as1% depending on the flavor and personal preference) accepting the need to steep and avoiding perceived unwanted flavor notes (chemical, harsh, perfume). It is also more cost effective (usually, mL for mL, flavor is the single most expensive ingredient. Followed by nicotine).

Neither is right or wrong. It all depends on what works for you. I started as a HFM but have been moving to more of a LFM as my taste buds have started to recover from smoking.

I mention this because the total amount of flavoring, like everything else, will effect your PG/VG ratio.

If you limit yourself to VG based flavors you will be severely limiting yourself to potential flavors (the majority out there are PG based) AND limiting your direct use of most recipes. This does not mean that there are not recipes out there for VG flavors. And this does not mean you can't adapt PG flavored recipes to similar VG flavors. It is just going to take more experimentation.

If you have an allergy to PG; then you should definitely try to stay with VG flavoring. If Your goal is to blow clouds and taste is secondary; VG flavors might help. If you only care about cloud chasing you might think about skipping flavor altogether and go unflavored... a lot more cost effective and you can mix up ounces in just a few minutes.

Even if clouds aren't your thing, don't disregard unflavored. A few months ago I was suffering from serious vaper's tongue and nothing sounded or tasted good. But I was almost out of juice. I read of quite a few people here who simply vape unflavored; so I said "what the heck." Turns out I like it. I mixed up 120mL of my usual 30/70 and it has just a touch of sweetness (from the VG) and I didn't grow tired of it. Don't get me wrong; it is not the kind of flavor you crave. But, on the other hand, I have never taken a draw and said "not gonna work" either. It is now part of my regular rotation. It also has the added benefit of making it super simple to do single flavor tests.:)

But, if flavor is your primary focus, I wouldn't worry about what base the flavor is in. Every flavor manufacture has flavors I like and flavors I don't. I like manufacturer A's Watermelon better than manufacturer B's. But I like manufacturer B's Vanilla Custard better than manufacturer A's. And it is all subjective. If you are looking for that "perfect" juice you won't know until you try.

I strongly encourage you to find 3 or 4 recipes that you really want to try, look at the total flavor percentage called for, and (if a specific PG/VG ratio is important to you) see if you can attain your desired ratio.

Also, having 3 or 4 recipes will help you home in on what specific flavors you will need to get started.

I did it the wrong way. I went to a web site and started ordering flavors that looked interesting. My first order was 86 FLAVORS! :shock: 19 months later and I still have about a third of them that I haven't even opened! :facepalm::facepalm::censored:

Calculators are a big help. Besides doing the math for you, and showing you the specific milliliters or grams to add, they can manage your recipes and inventory, and give you a place to take notes.

Which brings me to my last soap box (well... for this paragraph at least :lol:). NOTES:As you are learning what works for you (how you measure, how you shake, how you steep, how you taste, what your initial opinions of taste are, what your later opinions are, what worked, WHAT DIDN'T WORK, what you might like to try next time... getting the idea?) W R I T E___E V E R Y T H I N G___D O W N !

I wish I could have the time, and the supplies, I wasted from failing to take good notes. Repeating mistakes and having to take incremental steps to re-find that "sweet spot." I swear that I have at least 2 million dollar recipes floating out there in the ether because I didn't record accurately what I did and I have NEVER been able to recreate them again (sorry; is that redundant? "Recreate" and "again." :eek:).

I'm getting off my soap box now. :D

As for steeping; I will only say don't get too hung up on it. Some flavors truly do require long steeps (horrible word... "blending" would be a better choice) like tobaccos and custards. Other flavors will actually suffer from long resting periods like lemon and other floral/light flavors due to the loss of desired volatile compounds. Flavors with ethyl alcohol need to be "aired out" (left open/caps off) to allow the alcohol to evaporate or they can be quite harsh. Like everything else, it is important to taste early and taste often, to learn what the flavor's characteristics are like.

I hope this has been more help than confusion! :rolleyes:

Welcome again, and good luck on your vaping and DIY journey. :toast:


I just wanted to quote the longest post I've ever seen, on this or any other forum.

Well done man
24639996112_5365340198_o.gif



I was just gonna answer TS by saying that it sounded like he knew everything he needed to know and just use a juice-calculator, but yeah, I'd feel like a dick doing so now..
24462279700_2cc68e3b1d_o.gif
 

Vape1000RR

Full Member
Jul 6, 2016
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40
30
Bay Area, CA
You guys are the best. So, I am now at this point in my DIY journey.

I am currently reading the nicotine comparisons thread to get an idea between the differences in nicotine quality. I have read about the pepper taste regarding nicotine and how some have taste and some do not. I do have a scale which weighs down to .001 with a maximum of 100gs, but I think I am going to use the syringes and ml method, due to be being more convenient I feel like (scale could not be accurate, etc).

Now, I saw videos and realized DIY doesn't seem to difficult. But I have read and people say things about the "100 drop test" or "ry4". I'll read more into after I buy my nicotine base, but are these methods what you guys use? Or do you guys just do the whole calculator with no distilled water / alcohol and just measure and mix. Also, is the average % of flavoring added usually start at 5% ? I vape fruity flavors atm and looking for a good strawberry.

I also noticed people say to freeze VG based nicotine and as long as it stays clear and the oxygen doesn't oxidize it, it can essentially last for years. But people only mention the Storage in the freezer for "long term". What is considered long term and what is not? I've read VG doesn't solidify when frozen, but turns into a thick goo (essentially too thick to collect with a syringe). In other words, do I always store my nic in the freezer or say if I'm going to use it in a week,where do I store it? I knownPG / VG needs to just be in a dark place versus nicotine being affected by other factors.

I mean, just by doing the math, DIY equipment which can last around a year+ can cost around $100-120 while each premium juice I'm getting right now for 18$ a 30ml, the savings is crazy.

I guess for now, I'll just buy my NIC / PG / VG from the same company, and maybe buy 2-3 flavors from 2-3 other vendors.

Still got a lot of reading to do, so I'll report back soon. Thank you guys so much!

One last question, what's a good RTA to learn building on? Thanks!
 
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IDJoel

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Well...IDJoel must have been writing his post while I was working on mine, too!
Wow! I finally beat ya! Usually it is me who is still writing while you post! :w00t:
You definitely had some good additions I failed to cover. Thanks for chiming in JC! :D
I just wanted to quote the longest post I've ever seen, on this or any other forum.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
I won't even tell you how long it took me to type. (Hint: I type about as fast as a glacier moves.):D
Thanks for the thumbs up my friend! :toast:
@IDJoel Excellent post. I'm sure it'll be very helpful to many newcomers. :vapor:
I appreciate your kind words @JD1. A year and a half ago a lot of good folks here on ECF helped me out (and to this day). Now I am just trying to pay it forward. :D
 
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IDJoel

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I am currently reading the nicotine comparisons thread to get an idea between the differences in nicotine quality. I have read about the pepper taste regarding nicotine and how some have taste and some do not.
I'm glad to hear you're reading. Best thing you can do. Almost all the answers are already here in the threads if you will just spend some time and search them out. But by all means, if you can't find it, don't hesitate to ask.

I would think of it more as "nicotine differences" instead of "nicotine quality." 3-4 years ago there were some pretty suspicious products out there. But nowadays, most of it is perfectly vapable. It is more a matter of preference.

And remember, flavor/taste is not a bad thing, just different. Some people like, and will seek out, those nicotines with pepper and/or tobacco and/or extra throat hit. I t is all about what YOU are going to prefer.

In the past I would suggest you buy smaller quantities from various vendors to sample and see which ones you like. Then buy in bulk to "future-proof yourself. But I honestly don't know how much more time unflavored, higher concentration nic, will be available (and for a reasonable price).

I do have a scale which weighs down to .001 with a maximum of 100gs, but I think I am going to use the syringes and ml method, due to be being more convenient I feel like (scale could not be accurate, etc).

I must preface this by saying I am a volume mixer and have not yet tried mixing by weight. That said there are things about it that do intrigue me about the method and I believe it is a perfectly good method to mix.

@Capt.shay has a very well written thread called Mixing by weight:basics 101 that I found quite compelling.

Accuracy is a hot-button topic and can hijack a thread in a heartbeat. So I will only say that each method has its own limitations. Bottom line (to ME) is they are very similar and come down to personal preference.

I will say that a 100 gram capacity scale is probably too small when you start mixing larger quantities (much more than 50mL?) Because you will have to account for the weight of the bottle/beaker, along with the fluids. Not a big deal when you are using plastic; but glass becomes another matter. I believe most people who weigh recommend at least a 500 gram scale. And one that doesn't have an auto shut-off is a big plus as well.

Now, I saw videos and realized DIY doesn't seem to difficult.
It isn't. And it is pretty idiot proof with the use of a calculator. You just need a place to work that is free from children, pets, and other distractions.
But I have read and people say things about the "100 drop test" or "ry4".
The 100 drop test is a method credited to @Bill's Magic Vapor. And is more of a methodical way to create a recipe, or test a flavor, instead of general day-to-day mixing. Click on his name and you will see a link to his blogs. He has a LOT of good info for the new DIYer.

RY4 is not a method but a flavor. It is a caramel tobacco flavor that is very popular and a lot of the common flavor manufacturers make a version. (There is also an RY1, RY2, and RY3, each being caramel/tobacco with the caramel becoming more of the fore note as you go up in number. The RY1-3 are much less popular, and therefore, more difficult to find.

Or do you guys just do the whole calculator with no distilled water / alcohol and just measure and mix.
You are mixing a couple of different thing here (not your fault; DIY can get overwhelming when you first start to research).

Calculators do not prevent the use of water or ethyl alcohol (many of them anyway). No matter how you mix I would recommend a calculator.

I use this one by fellow ECF member @HotRod19579. You can find his support thread with links to the most current version here. I find it one of the most feature rich but still very user friendly.

A lot of people like eJuice Me Up. Others will find an on-line calculator that stores everything on line. I am not sure what Apple folks are using. There are also some phone apps that are popular but I can't speak to those either.

The use of water or ethyl alcohol is as a thinner for VG. And that is another personal preference thing. Completely unrelated to whether or not you use a calculator.
Also, is the average % of flavoring added usually start at 5% ? I vape fruity flavors atm and looking for a good strawberry.
There is no "right" or "wrong" answer to this. This is based on what tastes right to you. Se my previous post about high and low flavor mixers (not scolding; just referring).
I also noticed people say to freeze VG based nicotine and as long as it stays clear and the oxygen doesn't oxidize it, it can essentially last for years. But people only mention the Storage in the freezer for "long term". What is considered long term and what is not? I've read VG doesn't solidify when frozen, but turns into a thick goo (essentially too thick to collect with a syringe). In other words, do I always store my nic in the freezer or say if I'm going to use it in a week,where do I store it?
Again; lots of thoughts here in this one paragraph. I'll try to do my best. :D
  • Correct. Neither VG nor PG will freeze solid in a residential grade freezer.
  • Yes both will become thicker at lower temperatures. VG more so because it is thicker to start.
  • I would define "long term" as at least several months.
  • It appears that the most common storage practice is to store the majority of your nic in the freezer (in glass), while keeping only what you will use in the next couple to few months in the fridge. Bring the "working bottle" out and allow to come to room temp before mixing (a few hours at a time is not going to have any real noticeable effect on this). (Some will actually just keep it in a cupboard to minimize light and don't notice/object to the minimal oxidation of their working bottle. Other still even desire it.)
  • Three things effect nicotine (causing it to oxidize). Air/oxygen exposure, light, and heat. Reducing these extends the life of your nic. The more you reduce the longer it stays "fresh."
  • Again; lots of room for interpritation and personal preference. (Seeing another theme?)
I knownPG / VG needs to just be in a dark place versus nicotine being affected by other factors.
Correct VG and PG can simply be tucked away in a cool, dark, place. (Like a cupboard, closet, or basement.)
I mean, just by doing the math, DIY equipment which can last around a year+ can cost around $100-120 while each premium juice I'm getting right now for 18$ a 30ml, the savings is crazy.
Right you are. mL for mL DIY is a huge cost advantage.
I guess for now, I'll just buy my NIC / PG / VG from the same company, and maybe buy 2-3 flavors from 2-3 other vendors.
Another personal preference. Some will shop every single item for the best price and buy from multiple vendors. Others like the convenience (and often the ability to qualify for free shipping) and will buy from a single vendor.
Still got a lot of reading to do, so I'll report back soon. Thank you guys so much!
You are a wise person. Best thing you can do. But read everything with this thought: there are as many ways to DIY as there are DIYers. What you are reading is what works for them. Ultimately you need to find what works best for you.
One last question, what's a good RTA to learn building on? Thanks!
I'm not a lot of help here so I will hope others chime in. I am mostly a tank user (though with rebuildable decks).
I would suggest you look for some thing with a "velocity style" deck (available in both drippers and tanks). Super roomy and nice to build on.


(OK @OhTheAgony ; did I beat my previous record? :lol::lol::lol:)
 
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IDJoel

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Btw, IDJoel. If there was a vote for the member of the month, you got my vote my friend ! Thank you very much for the well written and detailed post. It actually taught me a great amount. Thank you very much sir.
Thank you for such kind thoughts. I am only trying to share with you what so many of this community have already shared with me. It is my pleasure.
 

Vape1000RR

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Hi Vape1000RR,


I strongly encourage you to find 3 or 4 recipes that you really want to try, look at the total flavor percentage called for, and (if a specific PG/VG ratio is important to you) see if you can attain your desired ratio.

Also, having 3 or 4 recipes will help you home in on what specific flavors you will need to get started.

After reading your description regarding the HFM vs LFM and I feel I might be towards a LFM or a MFN (yeah.. I just made that up :cool:) In other words, I can see myself using around 5% to 15%. But then again, this is all considered a hypothesis as I will not find out until I start DIY.

Now, the juice I currently vape on is Ruthless E-Juice consisting of the flavors Jungle Fever (The taste of Pineapple, Mango and other Citrus Flavors), EZ DUZ IT (A mixture of Strawberry and Watermelon), Slurricane (A tropical blend of Peach, Papaya,and Guava), and finally Swamp Thang (Sour Apple Candy). All of these consist of a 10/90 PG/VG ratio excluding Swamp Thang which consists of a 15/85. Now, I can vape all of these flavors and found Jungle Fever to be alright with my morning cup of coffee.

You mentioned to try and find around 3-4 recipes before I purchase my e-juice concentrated flavors but I cannot seem to find any simple "Strawberry" or "Strawberry Kiwi" or "Guava x Mango". I see a lot of custards and milkshakes but from my searching, I came across a thread which includes a chart of flavors which tend to contain Diacetyl, Acetoin, and/or Propionyl versus those who do not. I guess a lot of custards, caramel, and cream flavors tend to contain them as the simple fruity flavors do not? Also, what is the difference between a "Green Apple Flavor" versus a "Green Apple Flavor (Natural)", and which is preferred? Another example would be "Strawberry Kiwi" versus "Strawberry Kiwi (Natural)"

Also, I was wondering if you could maybe elaborate on the packing / containers provided by NN in which you may not agree with? From my conclusion of readings -- VT, NN, and WL seem to be the most pricey but then again the most clean / looked at as "quality" nicotine. So if that is the case, I might as well go with the NN Armor V2.0 500ml compared to VT / WL (which are both slightly subpar of 60$ where NN is $62) as the NN already comes in a freezer ready glass jar with a top that allows me to insert a syringe and be able to take out the nicotine base without removing the cap.

Regardless, I also might purchase a liter of RTS for long term storage if it gets crucial but I would like to start off most likely with NN / WL / VT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH SIR

I've personally tried My Freedom Smokes, Wizard Labs, and Nude Nicotine's nic base. I put them in order of my preference, with MFS being my least favorite (alittle peppery for me). Wizard and Nude seemed very close to me. I also use Wizard Labs for 99% of my flavorings.

Anyway, I wouldn't dive head first into anything just yet...just get that Nic base first. :D

You get the NN Armor V2.0? And you say just get the Nic Base first because everyone is stocking up just in case versus they need to? I will most likely purchase flavors from WL. Any Strawberry Recipes ? :nun: Thank you sir.
 
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OlderNDirt

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Thanks to @Vape1000RR for starting this thread and the great responses, even though it took a while to read through some :blink: (no offense @IDJoel :D). Wanting to prepare myself, this thread and the detailed responses saved me from starting another thread asking a lot of the same questions and saved all of you from having to repeat a lot of the same information.

So thanks again for the great info!
 

IDJoel

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You mentioned to try and find around 3-4 recipes before I purchase my e-juice concentrated flavors but I cannot seem to find any simple "Strawberry" or "Strawberry Kiwi" or "Guava x Mango".
That is kind of one downfall of ECF; it doesn't have the best organization when it comes to recipes. We had a member who took ownership and started compiling all the recipes on the TPA/TFA recipe thread but finally had enough. The last compilation of it can still be accessed through the link on this post.

If you haven't already, go the the DIY Recipe thread, and read the stickies, try searching, and if you don't find what you are looking for; start a thread. Make sure your thread title is specific to what you really want. Something like "Newb in need of a good simple strawberry kiwi recipe" or "What is your favorite strawberry recipe?" These will work better (and more likely to get you an answer you can use) than something ambiguous like "Help please" or "Another Newb question." Just be sure to search to see if anyone else has asked your question recently. If you are posting a question that has been asked by three other people, in the last week or two, you probably won't get much response.

There are bunch of recipe sites out there like: e-Liquid recipes, reddit, and le DIY pour nuls (google the names to find sites). The last one is a french site and the translation button is in the bottom left corner. English works in the search box. And they have recipes for three of the four you mentioned. Like visiting any site; use at your own risk. Same for the recipes.

Without and mixing experience, and therefore, no ability to look at a recipe and be able to say "I know I like mixing with that brand/flavor," or "I like that flavor but that looks way to strong/weak." Recipes are mostly a starting point until you can build experience and have something to compare new recipes to.

Another tip: pay attention to who is posting the recipes and include it in your notes. Finding someone that shares your likes and/or flavor palette is even more priceless than finding a good recipe. Because you can then search for additional recipes by that person and have a better chance of finding winners.
I guess a lot of custards, caramel, and cream flavors tend to contain them as the simple fruity flavors do not?
Yep. those "bad" compounds are what is used to get the creamy, buttery, dairy-like feel and flavor (and perfectly fine for ingestion; just not inhalation). Flavors that don't need those attributes usually won't have them.
Also, what is the difference between a "Green Apple Flavor" versus a "Green Apple Flavor (Natural)", and which is preferred? Another example would be "Strawberry Kiwi" versus "Strawberry Kiwi (Natural)"
I'm not familiar with a "natural" differentiation." What manufacturer is that?
Also, I was wondering if you could maybe elaborate on the packing / containers provided by NN in which you may not agree with?
I don't have any problem with them. I simply find the features (other than the glass bottles) unnecessary, and therefore, unnecessary added expense.

I am NOT, in any way, shape, or form, saying "don't buy NN". I am only saying that I am too old, cheap, and skeptical, and won't pay their prices for oxygen purging, septums, and ascorbic acid. I see no reason to pay $100/L when I can buy nic with close to the same reputation for $45-50/L. I will gladly go through the added hassle of re-bottling for that kind of savings.

If you perceive the value; buy it. They don't have lots of happy customers for nothing. :D
 

IDJoel

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Thanks to @Vape1000RR for starting this thread and the great responses, even though it took a while to read through some :blink: (no offense @IDJoel :D). Wanting to prepare myself, this thread and the detailed responses saved me from starting another thread asking a lot of the same questions and saved all of you from having to repeat a lot of the same information.

So thanks again for the great info!
No offense taken! In fact, I howled with laughter until I had tears rolling down my cheeks, when I read your comment. :lol::thumbs:
Thank you for doing some due diligence and searching out answers instead of taking the easy way out and just throwing up a new thread. :thumbs::thumbs:
:toast:
 

JCinFLA

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You get the NN Armor V2.0? And you say just get the Nic Base first because everyone is stocking up just in case versus they need to? I will most likely purchase flavors from WL. Any Strawberry Recipes ? :nun: Thank you sir.

No, I got the regular, original version. My thinking is the actual nic inside the container IS the same. If I spend less $$ on rebottling it (correctly) myself for longterm storage, the more nic and other supplies I could buy.

I reread my post and didn't see either of these (just in case versus they need to), but I'd go along with need to, for me personally. I want to be prepared if/when it may not be readily available at all any more, once the FDA and the states have their final say in things! I want to always be able to vape, because going back to smoking is not an option I'll even consider. Even on the remote chance that Nic base might be available in the future...I'd hate to think of both the regulations I'd have to follow IF I could legally even buy it, and the gamble I'd be taking on what the exhorbitant cost could be for it then. I look at my "stash" of vaping stuff as an investment, too...in my own much better personal health longterm...since I'm vaping vs. smoking, and it's all things I'd be buying anyway that would undoubtedly be rising in price even if there was no FDA garbage going on. None of it will go to waste or be unused, either by me, and/or a few friends I can help out, too!

About flavorings and recipes: WL is a great choice, IMO. Always has super prices, great CS, variety of different manufacturers and flavorings, and the best careful packaging for shipment IMO.

Recipes using strawberry? Yep, I have a few I regularly make, for myself and some for friends. One simple one is below, my clone of a local vendor's NanerBerry. It's a shake & vape for me, though a couple friends let theirs wait for 24 hours. All 3 flavorings used are TFA:

NannerBerry

Strawberry Ripe - 9%
DX Banana Cream - 6% (Can ue reg. if you prefer)
Cotton Candy - 2%

Another is a slightly modified version of Bill's Magic Vapor's "Flamingo", which is also all TFA:

Strawberry Ripe - 9%
Peach - 6%
DX Coconut - 4%
Sweetener - 2%

You may want to checkout his huge collection of recipes and his blogs for much, much more...although he subscribes to the HF theory because nearly everything is then shake and vape. I make about 7 of his recipes regularly, and I've only tried 9 of them so far!

About the Thank you sir...well you're welcome, but it's actually ma'am. :D
 
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