New York State Subpoenas Vit. E Acetate Labs

[CarolT]

"New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D) said Monday he is ordering the state health department to issue subpoenas to three companies the department has identified as selling substances linked to the mysterious vaping-related lung illnesses that have sickened hundreds of people across the country."
...
"New York state’s lab obtained samples of thickeners from three companies and determined they are “nearly pure” vitamin E acetate, an oil derived from vitamin E. Federal and state authorities have identified vitamin E acetate as a potential clue in the unfolding mystery because it is a common element in c* products that have been collected from patients who have fallen ill."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...ng-substances-linked-illicit-vaping-products/

 

[zoiDman]

"Jones notes that the thickener is not subject to any state or federal regulations. There is nothing “to keep you from putting this in every head shop, gas station, dispensary in the country,” he says."

Vape Cart Additive Makers Pull Products as Others Go Dark

 

[Rossum]

Jones notes that the thickener is not subject to any state or federal regulations. There is nothing “to keep you from putting this in every head shop, gas station, dispensary in the country,” he says."

Nothing would prevent them from using Vaseline either. Should we regulate Vaseline?

 

[CarolT]

Nothing would prevent them from using Vaseline either. Should we regulate Vaseline?

I think FDA already does handle Vaseline.

 

[bombastinator]

Nothing would prevent them from using Vaseline either. Should we regulate Vaseline?

I don’t think it’s a regulation attempt. It’s a who did you sell this stuff to so we can put them in jail attempt.

The impression I am getting is they want something cheaper than the product they are pretending to sell. Anything that is visually identical would work. This is one reason I’m not so worried about actual e-cigs. The stuff in them is already pretty cheap. They don’t have a hundreds of dollars an ounce product to fake. The risk/reward metric just isn’t there.

 

[zoiDman]

Nothing would prevent them from using Vaseline either. Should we regulate Vaseline?

Just pointing out the Stupidity and Ineptness of States when it comes to "Regulating" something like the Tango Hotel Charlie markets.

State Health Departments (as well as the FDA/CDC) want to get Up in Arms over this "Vaping" Epidemic. But they Allow a product into their Markets, because it was Not Supposed to cause Harm, but they made No Provisions as to what a Legal Seller can use to "Cut" the product with?

So, if I want, I can use Glow Stick Liquid in my Vape Carts. Or Vitamin E Acetate Oil.

And then when people start turning up in the ER, we can all Run Around like an Ant Hill that has been stirred with a Stick.

LOL

 

[bombastinator]

Just pointing out the Stupidity and Ineptness of States when it comes to "Regulating" something like the Tango Hotel Charlie markets.

State Health Departments (as well as the FDA/CDC) want to get Up in Arms over this "Vaping" Epidemic. But they Allow a product into their Markets, because it was Not Supposed to cause Harm, but they made No Provisions as to what a Legal Seller can use to "Cut" the product with?

So, if I want, I can use Glow Stick Liquid in my Vape Carts. Or Vitamin E Acetate Oil.

And then when people start turning up in the ER, we can all Run Around like an Ant Hill that has been stirred with a Stick.

LOL

It didn’t used to be this way of course. Systems were destroyed at key points over the past 30 or so years. Frequently because it was called “pointless and oppressive regulation” at the time. We expect them to still work though and when they don’t people act surprised.

 

[Horselady154]

It didn’t used to be this way of course. Systems were destroyed at key points over the past 30 or so years. Frequently because it was called “pointless and oppressive regulation” at the time. We expect them to still work though and when they don’t people act surprised.

Then you must just LOVE what is going on currently, bombastinator. Because you are going to get a ton of your beloved "regulation".

 

[Rossum]

Just pointing out the Stupidity and Ineptness of States when it comes to "Regulating" something like the Tango Hotel Charlie markets.

State Health Departments (as well as the FDA/CDC) want to get Up in Arms over this "Vaping" Epidemic. But they Allow a product into their Markets, because it was Not Supposed to cause Harm, but they made No Provisions as to what a Legal Seller can use to "Cut" the product with?

I'm not terribly familiar with those markets, but I would guess that the State legislators imagined the market would consist of actual plant material, not "extracts" or cartridges pre-filled with extracts. Actual plant material is much harder to "cut" or adulterate than extracts are.

 

[Rossum]

Then you must just LOVE what is going on currently, bombastinator. Because you are going to get a ton of your beloved "regulation".

There's an old saying: "Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it, good and hard."

 

[bombastinator]

Then you must just LOVE what is going on currently, bombastinator. Because you are going to get a ton of your beloved "regulation".

“Beloved”? Where are you getting that?
Seems pretty assumptive and false to me.

You complained about a lack of working systems, and I related how that came to pass.

I think regulation is often overused. I’m just pointing out that if you start randomly pulling parts out of a system because “there are just too many of them” problems are bound to occur. Thought needs to be put into things.

The purpose of regulation is for when catching criminals after the fact is inadequate. Sometime something is so dangerous and damaging that the situation where breaking a law becomes possible cannot even be allowed to come to pass. The problem with creating a regulation without looking at what it will actually do is as bad as removing one without looking.

Also do you know something I don’t about about an increase in regulation?

 

[zoiDman]

I'm not terribly familiar with those markets, but I would guess that the State legislators imagined the market would consist of actual plant material, not "extracts" or cartridges pre-filled with extracts. Actual plant material is much harder to "cut" or adulterate than extracts are.

Perhaps the Question then becomes is this Adequate Governance?

Legislators so Out of Touch with the Actualities of how a Product is Made, Distributed, Sold and then Used by people?

And Legislators who know, but take a "Look the Other Way" approach because they know Talking about things will hurt the chances of a Bill's Passage?

I can Fill out the Forms in my State then send in the Fees and now I can Legally sell ... Carts. Cool. But there is No Restrictions for what I cut the ... with that goes in my ... Carts?

That's...

 

[bobwho77]

Then you must just LOVE what is going on currently, bombastinator. Because you are going to get a ton of your beloved "regulation".

Regulations aren't a problem in and of themselves.
POORLY DESIGNED regulations are the problem.

 

[Ceejay0875]

How about corrupt regulaTORS being the problem?

 

[zoiDman]

I'm not terribly familiar with those markets, but I would guess that the State legislators imagined the market would consist of actual plant material, not "extracts" or cartridges pre-filled with extracts. Actual plant material is much harder to "cut" or adulterate than extracts are.

BTW - Not to Push this thread into area's that will bring Reactions.

But Much of the "Plant Material" (slang: Flower) that is sold is Sprayed/Treated with Tango Hotel Charlie oil. And that Oil is diluted with "something".

 

[Rossum]

BTW - Not to Push this thread into area's that will bring Reactions.

But Much of the "Plant Material" (slang: Flower) that is sold is Sprayed/Treated with Tango Hotel Charlie oil. And that Oil is diluted with "something".

Sounds like if a person was into that kind of thing, the safest approach would be to grow it themselves....

 

[bombastinator]

How about corrupt regulaTORS being the problem?

What exactly is a regulaTOR in this instance? A government body? A politician? An inspector? A Corperation? Generally it’s a bunch of all of them at the same time arguing.

 

[Ceejay0875]

What exactly is a regulaTOR in this instance? A government body? A politician? An inspector? A Corperation? Generally it’s a bunch of all of them at the same time arguing.

That was kind of my point. I could say unelected regulators, such as the fda, but we also have elected officials now jumping into the fray (ie. Michigan), and the corporations whose $$ is being used to influence.

 

[bombastinator]

That was kind of my point. I could say unelected regulators, such as the fda, but we also have elected officials now jumping into the fray (ie. Michigan), and the corporations whose $$ is being used to influence.

There are no unelected regulators, generally. Or very few. The unelected folks generally enact regulations rather than make them. They tend to have a lot more actual specific information about the subject in question than the elected people do, hence the arguments. There are times of course when the regulation enacted is “create a body to figure out what needs to be done here and do it using these guidelines”. That’s how things like the FDA work.

The impression I am getting right now is that in the beginning BT acted very aggressively to destroy e-cigarettes because they were costing them customers. Then recently they said “ok. We will support vaping bit only if we can own ALL of it”. That broke down because they couldn’t fool the FDA, so they’re going back to previous “destroy all vaping” mode.

 

[iVapeDIY]

Three Companies Subpoenaed in Weed Vape Illness Investigation