Newb hissy fit and question

[hurricanegirl100]

I've been roaming ECF and YouTube for a month or so, getting tips and advice on how to build a coil. Last night, for the first time, I took a shot at building a simple single coil with an IGO-W and a Vamo V5 (the Plume Veils aren't here yet..)

I bought 100 ft of 28g Kanthal. It came on this round, white plastic spool with a notch cut into one of the rims that you 'catch' the end of the Kanthal in.

WHAT NOBODY WARNED ME ABOUT..
Make sure you get the end of the Kanthal nice and tight into that spool notch! Because if you don't...
(yeah, watch this..KA-DOINGGG!!! the Kanthal came loose. In about 4 seconds, that Kanthal turned into something that looked like a Slinky on .... all OVER my desk!! (Once I calmed down, it was pretty funny, but in the end, I wasted a lot of Kanthal!)

Oh, yeah! The question...when I tighten down the atomizer screws, the ohm level on the build goes from something like 2.4 ohms to .9 and (because it's on the Vamo), it won't fire. When I loosen the atomizer screws, the ohm level goes back to a functional level (above 1.2 ohms), but it bounces all over the place!

4.3 ohms! .9 ohms! 2.8 ohms! 5.5 ohms! Short! (insert a long list of cuss words here)
All of this in the space of less than a minute, and without doing anything other than checking the ohm level on the V5.

What the heck is up with that? What am I doing wrong? (Did 8 coils on a 41293 W WF Craftsman - I wish I knew the diameter of the screwdriver, but it that's all it says on the handle. It's really small.)

 

[locomikey5150]

The fluctuation is because there's too much play in the wire, hence the short you mentioned. Not sure if you're an android phone user, but here's a nice app to help you figure out the ohms you're after. I'm sure there's one for iPhones as well. I didn't search, but I'm sure there's one available for your computer's browser as well.

Good luck!

 

[Bassnorma]

These are our two most recommended coil calculators....Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators and Coil Toy - Online calculator for e-cigarette resistance coil building

What was your target resistance?

Resistance will change when you tighten the coil, it will also change when you pinch the coils together. It should not jump all over the place however.

Are you able to post a picture of your build?

LOL, BTW...damn Kanthal did the same to me but I re-wrapped it on the spool....it was embarrassing and yes funny...one of those DOH! moments.

 

[vaperature]

I'm guessing .9 is the actual ohms of your coil. Try a higher (gauge) kanthal perhaps.

 

[Bassnorma]

And apparently you are not the only person to have experienced this with the IGO-W. You might want to check this out...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/500625-igo-w-resistance-fluctuations.html

I have also had resistance fluctuations on a crappy Squape R clone...that was completely related to a wobbly positive post in my case.

Kanthal A1 is pretty standard....btw. I have never used higher grades. Apparently, I have never gotten bad Kanthal. But that is not the first thing I would suspect.

 

[vaperature]

And apparently you are not the only person to have experienced this with the IGO-W. You might want to check this out...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/500625-igo-w-resistance-fluctuations.html

I have also had resistance fluctuations on a crappy Squape R clone...that was completely related to a wobbly positive post in my case.

Kanthal A1 is pretty standard....btw. I have never used higher grades. Apparently, I have never gotten bad Kanthal. But that is not the first thing I would suspect.

Sorry, I didn't mean higher "grade", I meant thinner (like higher number, 30 or 32). If he has eight wraps and they're touching it probably would be low ohms.

Yeah, higher "gauge" that's what I meant.

 

[BlunderCat]

Doh! The same thing happened to me with my Kanthal spool, except it sprung out all over the floor (24 gauge, too). I just couldn't understand how there were knots in a few places. One of those many mysteries of life.

In any case, I just wanted to share a tip that someone posted once. Be sure to create extra notches around the rim of the spool, so you are not obligated to a single notch to set your wire.

 

[Wraith504]

loose screws will cause resistance fluctuations all day long.

 

[Bassnorma]

Doh! The same thing happened to me with my Kanthal spool, except it sprung out all over the floor (24 gauge, too). I just couldn't understand how there were knots in a few places. One of those many mysteries of life.

In any case, I just wanted to share a tip that someone posted once. Be sure to create extra notches around the rim of the spool, so you are not obligated to a single notch to set your wire.

I also saw a video where the guy used poster tack to keep it on the spool....but I like the extra hole idea...because poster tack is, well.....tacky....lol

 

[Tmebs]

I've been roaming ECF and YouTube for a month or so, getting tips and advice on how to build a coil. Last night, for the first time, I took a shot at building a simple single coil with an IGO-W and a Vamo V5 (the Plume Veils aren't here yet..)

I bought 100 ft of 28g Kanthal. It came on this round, white plastic spool with a notch cut into one of the rims that you 'catch' the end of the Kanthal in.

WHAT NOBODY WARNED ME ABOUT..
Make sure you get the end of the Kanthal nice and tight into that spool notch! Because if you don't...
(yeah, watch this..KA-DOINGGG!!! the Kanthal came loose. In about 4 seconds, that Kanthal turned into something that looked like a Slinky on .... all OVER my desk!! (Once I calmed down, it was pretty funny, but in the end, I wasted a lot of Kanthal!)

Oh, yeah! The question...when I tighten down the atomizer screws, the ohm level on the build goes from something like 2.4 ohms to .9 and (because it's on the Vamo), it won't fire. When I loosen the atomizer screws, the ohm level goes back to a functional level (above 1.2 ohms), but it bounces all over the place!

4.3 ohms! .9 ohms! 2.8 ohms! 5.5 ohms! Short! (insert a long list of cuss words here)
All of this in the space of less than a minute, and without doing anything other than checking the ohm level on the V5.

What the heck is up with that? What am I doing wrong? (Did 8 coils on a 41293 W WF Craftsman - I wish I knew the diameter of the screwdriver, but it that's all it says on the handle. It's really small.)

I feel your pain.....all of it, been there! I'm still trying to get my coil builds to perfection. The difference between snug and sheared in half eluded me for awhile. So to my point.....if you may have done a few fails and pulled them out and started over... Back the post screws all the way out and check to make sure there isn't little pieces of wire down inside the posts....Enjoy!

 

[Bassnorma]

One good way to judge whether you have tightened enough is to leave the bits of wire on for a test. Put your atty on an ohm reader and tighten then gently pluck the ends. If there is no ohm fluctuation, you have tightened enough. Then trim off the excess as close as possible to the post hole or screw.

I do not torch, I pulse fire and pinch. It is expected that ohms will change from the pre-fired reading to when you have the coil evenly glowing from inside to the outer wraps.


(sent from an alien device which translates English into Klingon without my approval)

 

[hurricanegirl100]

I checked the Igo-W posts. No wiggling going on there! But locoMikey and BassNorma were right; once I tightened the screws, the fluctuation in the ohm level went away. But no matter what I do, I wind up with too low an ohm count to get the stupid atomizer to fire properly! The coil doesn't even glow - at 1.3 ohms, it gave off a piddly little stream of vapor for a few seconds and then just died out. I checked - the coil is not touching the deck or the posts.

What about wrapping some of the Kanthal 'legs' around the posts? Would that help?

I hoped that if I could just get that STUPID COIL TO FIRE, I would be able to up the ohm level when I added the wick (organic cotton) and some juice. But if the coil doesn't fire, then it seems kind of dumb to waste the cotton (no big deal) and the e-juice (THAT does bug me!)

Tried to take a picture of the coil last night, but neither the web camera nor my crappy dumbphone could get a clear shot of the coils!

Dunno. I've got an EhPro Plume Veil and some 30g Kanthal on it's way from MadVapes. USPS says it'll be here Friday. And I picked up a small soldering iron/torch and some butane on the way home from work tonight. I might try again tonight with the Igo-W and the 24g. Then again, I might watch The Middle instead and give it a rest until Friday!

Don't leave me, you guys!

 

[hurricanegirl100]

One good way to judge whether you have tightened enough is to leave the bits of wire on for a test. Put your atty on an ohm reader and tighten then gently pluck the ends. If there is no ohm fluctuation, you have tightened enough. Then trim off the excess as close as possible to the post hole or screw.

I'll try this tonight. AFTER, The Middle.

I do not torch, I pulse fire and pinch. It is expected that ohms will change from the pre-fired reading to when you have the coil evenly glowing from inside to the outer wraps.


(sent from an alien device which translates English into Klingon without my approval)

1) Bass, what it God's name is a pulse fire lol? Pinch what? The coil? Like squeeze it tight with the tweezers while I'm firing on it with the butane torch?

 

[hurricanegirl100]

Y'know, let's make this interesting! Let's throw in a gift certificate for a 30 ml!

Shooting for around 2.0-2.5 ohms, wick included. If I follow your instructions and that bad boy glows red and then fires up my Velvet Cloud Vapor Night Shift, you win!!

(PM me and let me know what vendor you want. I'll go to that site, get a price on a 30 ml. Then, I'll purchase a gift cert for that amount and PM the gift certificate to you right here on ECF!)

 

[jbnuke]

Guessing here based off me running a subohm dual coil setup.... hmmm 12 wraps of 28 gage around a 1/16th drill bit should have you right about in the middle of that range... but I havnt built singles sooo attempt at your own discretion

 

[Bassnorma]

1) Bass, what it God's name is a pulse fire lol? Pinch what? The coil? Like squeeze it tight with the tweezers while I'm firing on it with the butane torch?

Not exactly....you attach the atty to your mod....set a voltage or wattage that causes it to fire. I use ceramic tip tweezers so I can pinch the coils together while firing. If you have regular tweezers, let the coil get hot, stop firing and pinch it so that the wraps are touching. Then fire again and repeat. Do this until all wraps are evenly touching each other and the coil glows from the inside out and evenly.

(sent from an alien device which translates English into Klingon without my approval)

 

[JD1]

..........(Once I calmed down, it was pretty funny, but in the end, I wasted a lot of Kanthal!)..............

A little tip for straightening Kanthal or any wire for that matter. Grab your bigger screwdriver or even a ball point pen, trap a length of the wire between your thumb and the shaft and pull the wire through. It will curl the wire but you can rotate the wire and swipe it again to get the wire nice and smooth.

Looks like you're getting some good help here so I hope you get your other problems sorted soon.

 

[USMCotaku]

I checked the Igo-W posts. No wiggling going on there! But locoMikey and BassNorma were right; once I tightened the screws, the fluctuation in the ohm level went away. But no matter what I do, I wind up with too low an ohm count to get the stupid atomizer to fire properly! The coil doesn't even glow - at 1.3 ohms, it gave off a piddly little stream of vapor for a few seconds and then just died out. I checked - the coil is not touching the deck or the posts.

What about wrapping some of the Kanthal 'legs' around the posts? Would that help?

I hoped that if I could just get that STUPID COIL TO FIRE, I would be able to up the ohm level when I added the wick (organic cotton) and some juice. But if the coil doesn't fire, then it seems kind of dumb to waste the cotton (no big deal) and the e-juice (THAT does bug me!)

Tried to take a picture of the coil last night, but neither the web camera nor my crappy dumbphone could get a clear shot of the coils!

Dunno. I've got an EhPro Plume Veil and some 30g Kanthal on it's way from MadVapes. USPS says it'll be here Friday. And I picked up a small soldering iron/torch and some butane on the way home from work tonight. I might try again tonight with the Igo-W and the 24g. Then again, I might watch The Middle instead and give it a rest until Friday!

Don't leave me, you guys!

Don't wrap your coil legs around the posts, you will probably wind up getting hot legs.... Which is only good on a lady .
First, try increasing your coil diameter, that will bump your resistance up. On my 28 gauge I'm using 6 wraps and getting .5 ohm on a dual coil build, which means each coil is at 1 ohm.
Just fyi, I've yet to have my resistance increase after wicking and applying juice. It usually takes about a week of usage for my coils resistance to go up....by about .1 ohm, then if I clean it off by dry firing sans wick and juice, it will usually drop back to my starting ohms.
Kanthal is relatively cheap. I would suggest experimenting with different diameters till you find one that puts you in your target range of resistance. As far as torching vs. Pulsing & pinching (dry firing the coil THEN squeezing with tweezers) I prefer to do both. I build my coil and torch it while squeezing it together with my tweezers, then after installing the coil I dry fire it (after checking ohms) and repinch it to close any gaps made during the install. I keep doing that until I get a nice glow from inside out

 

[readeuler]

If you were having trouble getting a 1.3 ohm coil to fire well, I don't think increasing the resistance to 2-2.5 ohms is a good idea.

Increasing the resistance means using more wire, which is going to take longer, and mean less heat per wrap. Using lower gauge, thicker wire - like 24ga vs 28ga - also means more metal to heat up, which means the coil will take a second or two to heat fully.

With a 15w Vamo, 1.2-1.8 ohms of 28 gauge should fire quite nicely for a single coil. For a dual coil, not so much - I had a hard time getting a dual 0.7ohm (net) coil to heat at 15 watts, it just took forever. Dual 30's should be fine though.

Figure out the diameter of what you're wrapping on, and head over to steam-engine.org to figure out the number of wraps required. I'd probably shoot for a single 1.6 ohm coil, and everything should work fine.

About the jumping ohms, yes, loose screws will do it. Resistance is just measure of how hard the electrons have to work to make a complete lap around the circuit. Without tightened leads, they have to work harder since there isn't a nice path for them; lots of trial and error, or crowding at a small connection point.

The wick shouldn't affect resistance, but as you dry-fire the coil before wicking, a layer of oxidation will form, which might raise the resistance of a tight microcoil a little bit, but not much.

 

[hurricanegirl100]

(Starts doing a happy dance in the living room...)
It works!! Running the Plume Veil at a perfect 2.0 ohms at 9.5 watts on the Vamo! And it's STAYING at 2.0 ohms! Yip!

Here's what helped (for some poor struggling idjit like me that lands on this thread..)
1) 30 gauge is a lot easier to work with than 24 gauge. Getting a nice, tight coil was damn near impossible with 24g. Piece of cake with the 30g.

2) I gave up coiling with that little screwdriver (size unknown) and tried coiling the wire with the 2 mm screwdriver that came in my $4.99 screwdriver set. Coils became much smaller. Coil was easier to insert into the atomizer and 'fit' better within the cap. Might also explain why this build fires and the other ones didn't.

3) The positive posts on the Plume Veil are higher up from the deck than the postive posts are on the Igo-W. Easier to get at without bending the heck out of the coil.

4) That Benzamatic torch I bought wants Benzamatic butane fluid. Tried to fill it with Zippo butane fluid. Bad loading connection. Thank God I tried to fill the torch over the bathroom sink! Cleaned up the mess and went with a Bic lighter lol...worked just fine!

5) Compared to the Smok BCC's I usually use, the RDA goes through juice a lot faster.

6) Velvet Cloud Vapor's Night Shift is everything the website describes it as. And I had a tough time feeling any love for it on a BCC tank. There are some very definite advantages to an RBA/RDA

Okay, last question. While it's putting out a decent amount of vapor, what would you guys suggest for a "cloud-chucker" build?
Nobody's hitting me up for juice, so I guess we'll let that go..Thank you, everybody!