Newb to RDA/ Subohm, Battery Help

[BrennanElectric]

Alright this will be a little difficult to explain but I'm only looking for clarification.
The parts I own currently are the IPV V1 Box Mod, IGO-W RDA, 0.4 mm 26 awg kanthal wire, 18650 3.7 2500 mAh (LGDBHE21865) 20 amp, efest IMR 18650 3.7 LIMN 2000 mah 10A

The guy at the shop wrapped my first coils for me, and its running at 0.6 ohms.
I was just wondering after reading through ohms law, and how to understand battery ratings and whats safe, I'm still so lost and confused. I'm trying to figure out what my batteries can handle. From what I understand they should be fine at .6 ohms, but then as the battery drains, is it still safe, or do I keep a full battery?
Then the whole regulated box mod, does it matter what wattage I use, because he suggested to keep it at the full 35 watts, which runs at like 4.7 volts at my .6 ohm build, but then what I don't understand is when the battery comes into play, to understand if as the battery dies, do I lower the wattage or with my batteries can it handle the full 35 watts until it is almost dead? Or is there a better wattage to keep it at for longer battery life, or better vape? I just keep reading so many different opinions and don't really know what the truth is. All I am looking for is a good happy medium that I can keep wrapping the same coil builds with the same resistance, and have good battery life, and amazing vapor flavor, I'm not really wanting to cloud chase, just want it simple and understandable. I'm too terrified to branch out and try different methods because I don't even understand why they do what they do completely, I've been reading up on it for quite awhile, and I'm getting nowhere. If anyone can explain step by step, the math of how to figure out these things, and how to determine my scope of what I can and can't do with the equipment provided, that would be extremely helpful. I am waiting for a multimeter in the mail, but until then, if I wrap some coils, and test it on my regulated box without a multimeter, can i use the display on that to test the resistance, without the multimeter, without maybe breaking it? Just want to be safe, and extremely new to this, sorry for my lack of knowledge, theres just so much to learn, and I only have one day off, and want to be able to understand it by the end of the day. And also wondering if the efest is worth it or if I should get another 2500 mah battery and just switch them out as they die? or is the 10 amp safe to use for the builds I'm doing? Anyways any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks guys!

 

[EBates]

Your concern should be, can your battery provide sufficient power.
Fully charged battery voltage = 4.2 volts / Coil = 0.6 ohms = 7 Amps. 4.2 volts * 7 amps = 29.4 watts
That being true, the Efest are questionable for this build IMO.
For deciding on which battery to use. I think of it in terms of a car.

CDR = Horsepower
Ohms = Weight of your vehicle plus cargo (the lower the ohms the higher the weight)
mah = Mileage per charge

 

[ElConquistador]

Not familiar with your device, but I would think a regulated device will either not fire or adjust itself to keep it at safe levels? Also, a regulated mod should turn itself off when the battery is discharged. These may be false assumptions on my part.

 

[Shred93]

In my opinion you should always use something with a 30 amp limit when building coils unless you are above 1 ohm.

Unfortunately Sony stopped making the VTC 4's and 5's, but there other options with similar quality. I really like using the Samsung 25 r because of the 60 amp pulse limit. There is also the red LG DGHR with a 35 amp pulse and the purple Efest 35 amps.

Hope this helps!

 

[BrennanElectric]

In my opinion you should always use something with a 30 amp limit when building coils unless you are above 1 ohm.

Unfortunately Sony stopped making the VTC 4's and 5's, but there other options with similar quality. I really like using the Samsung 25 r because of the 60 amp pulse limit. There is also the red LG DGHR with a 35 amp pulse and the purple Efest 35 amps.

Hope this helps!

A Alright well the guy at the shop said those LG are 30 amp with 60 amp pulse, which he seemed like he was being honest but I can't find information that leads towards that. Would the LG suffice for now

 

[eyerhere]

welcome to the world of BS. You will hear different pulse ratings on batteries because it means nothing. It is a fictional thing that was made up to sell batteries.
Vapeing above the constant discharge rate is not advised.

 

[BrennanElectric]

welcome to the world of BS. You will hear different pulse ratings on batteries because it means nothing. It is a fictional thing that was made up to sell batteries.
Vapeing above the constant discharge rate is not advised.

Makes sense, but with the LG battery I have seeing as what I've found is it is a 20 maximum, would you care to help write out the math to figure out whats the safe range to stay in wattage wise, with that .6 ohm build, or should I try to do a .8 ohm build?

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Your power device (IPV v1) has a regulated chip set with built in protection circuitry.

It isn't going to vent a battery or melt down in your hands if you use a resistance range that exceeds the chipset amp limit, it either won't fire or fire at a power range that doesn't exceed the built in amp limit.
The LG he2 20a CDR battery is a good reliable battery and will power your IPV v1 to its full potential safely.

If I could ' like ' eyerhers's post 10 more time, I would.
Battery marketing hype ratings are not to be trusted.

 

[BrennanElectric]

Your power device (IPV v1) has a regulated chip set with built in protection circuitry.

It isn't going to vent a battery or melt down in your hands if you use a resistance range that exceeds the chipset amp limit, it either won't fire or fire at a power range that doesn't exceed the built in amp limit.
The LG he2 20a CDR battery is a good reliable battery and will power your IPV v1 to its full potential safely.

Alright because after doing the math, I figure running at .6 ohms I'm only drawing around 7 amps at a full charge, V / R = I. So 4.2 (full charge) / 0.6 = 7 amps? nowhere near the 20 amps, is that what its talking about?

 

[JimmyDB]

Presuming a 20A CDR...

20A * (0.70 for added safety) = 14A

14A * 4.2V = 58.8W <-- Max safe wattage

4.2V^2 / 58.8W = 0.3 Ohms <-- Min safe coil [I'm using the word SAFE loosely here]

4.2^2 / 0.3 Ohms = 58.8 Watts [sanity check]

So... 58.8W should be safe with a quality battery that has a true CDR (constant discharge rate) of 20A, and you can get that max wattage even on a mechanical so long as your coil never dips below 0.3 Ohms.

*Note* This did not take into consideration losses caused by the efficiency of the equipment being less than 100%, although, with that 30% safety margin, I would/do consider it fine.

 

[BrennanElectric]

Presuming a 20A CDR...

20A * (0.70 for added safety) = 14A

14A * 4.2V = 58.8W <-- Max safe wattage

4.2V^2 / 58.8W = 0.3 Ohms <-- Min safe coil [I'm using the word SAFE loosely here]

4.2^2 / 0.3 Ohms = 58.8 Watts [sanity check]

So... 58.8W should be safe with a quality battery that has a true CDR (constant discharge rate) of 20A, and you can get that max wattage even on a mechanical so long as your coil never dips below 0.3 Ohms.

*Note* This did not take into consideration losses caused by the efficiency of the equipment being less than 100%, although, with that 30% safety margin, I would/do consider it fine.

I appreciate the information, so basically if my mod only reaches 35 watts, it can handle down to .3 ohms, and work just fine, will just drain the battery a lot faster than a higher resistance? And if you built higher ohm coils it'd just have a longer lasting battery with less wattage and cooler vapor and not as thick of clouds?

 

[JimmyDB]

Alright because after doing the math, I figure running at .6 ohms I'm only drawing around 7 amps at a full charge, V / R = I. So 4.2 (full charge) / 0.6 = 7 amps? nowhere near the 20 amps, is that what its talking about?

Chances are, your battery doesn't even reach a 4.2V rest state charge AND the second you take your first puff off of it, you are below anyhow... so, you will only ever draw that 7A when at 4.2V which is basically once per charge cycle. [I assume you have a quality charger]

Ever second you are puffing after that first second, the current draw should be going down (along with the battery voltage and since it's directly related, the total power consumption).

I would feel safe using a 10A CDR battery to pull 7A in 5 to 10 second draws... actually with a quality battery, I would feel safe drawing 10A the whole time from 4.2V down to 3.2V since that's the whole point to a CDR. Battery manufacturers, I'll repeat that, MANUFACTURERS already leave padding in the CDR so that it represents even the worst battery they let pass through quality control. The real danger is in relabeling... some companies think it's OK to exaggerate the specs a little... and if more than one company does that down the line of the battery, things can get interesting.

 

[JimmyDB]

I appreciate the information, so basically if my mod only reaches 35 watts, it can handle down to .3 ohms, and work just fine, will just drain the battery a lot faster than a higher resistance? And if you built higher ohm coils it'd just have a longer lasting battery with less wattage and cooler vapor and not as thick of clouds?

Ok, asking some specific questions here with specific answers...

If it's a real IPV V1 35W mod... it uses a real SX-330 Chip for the brains and has proper wiring to handle above/beyond the load requirements. Assuming that's true...

The SX-330 can range from 0.3 to 3.0 Ohms according to the spec sheet I linked to.

The IPV V1 mod is no longer listed at the manufacturer site [that I could find], but I note that various sellers claim using coils under 0.5 ohms voids the warranty...

Since the output voltage on the IPV V1 is limited to 8.5V... you can only get 35W if the coils are under 2 ohms [see earlier math examples].

A simple answer would be that the battery life will depend on your output wattage... and while that will effect the temp of the vape and quantity of the vape... the type of build, atty and juice will also effect those results.

 

[BrennanElectric]

I'm gathering a little data, will update in a moment.

Appreciate it, and yeah that makes a lot of sense, they definitely tried to mislead me, or the shop themselves haven't even taken the time to really learn about it nearly as much as me, because he seemed convinced it was a 30 amp with 60 amp pulse, which seemed unreal and unneeded. It's all starting to make a lot more sense, I started learning about ohms and batteries yesterday, but I think it's finally starting to click, the one thing I need to practice is really understanding what's really going on and knowing the physics behind electrical currents, and knowing how to apply the equations properly, but all in all, I just needed to know my equipment was safe to use, and now I feel much safer with even this extent of knowledge you have helped me with.

 

[JimmyDB]

I appreciate the information, so basically if my mod only reaches 35 watts, it can handle down to .3 ohms, and work just fine, will just drain the battery a lot faster than a higher resistance? And if you built higher ohm coils it'd just have a longer lasting battery with less wattage and cooler vapor and not as thick of clouds?

Oh... but yeah, the output wattage is the work the battery is performing... so, lower wattage will cause less work for the battery, eating less of those mAhs...

 

[edyle]

Alright this will be a little difficult to explain but I'm only looking for clarification.
The parts I own currently are the IPV V1 Box Mod, IGO-W RDA, 0.4 mm 26 awg kanthal wire, 18650 3.7 2500 mAh (LGDBHE21865) 20 amp, efest IMR 18650 3.7 LIMN 2000 mah 10A

The guy at the shop wrapped my first coils for me, and its running at 0.6 ohms.
I was just wondering after reading through ohms law, and how to understand battery ratings and whats safe, I'm still so lost and confused. I'm trying to figure out what my batteries can handle. From what I understand they should be fine at .6 ohms, but then as the battery drains, is it still safe, or do I keep a full battery?
Then the whole regulated box mod, does it matter what wattage I use, because he suggested to keep it at the full 35 watts, which runs at like 4.7 volts at my .6 ohm build, but then what I don't understand is when the battery comes into play, to understand if as the battery dies, do I lower the wattage or with my batteries can it handle the full 35 watts until it is almost dead? Or is there a better wattage to keep it at for longer battery life, or better vape? I just keep reading so many different opinions and don't really know what the truth is. All I am looking for is a good happy medium that I can keep wrapping the same coil builds with the same resistance, and have good battery life, and amazing vapor flavor, I'm not really wanting to cloud chase, just want it simple and understandable. I'm too terrified to branch out and try different methods because I don't even understand why they do what they do completely, I've been reading up on it for quite awhile, and I'm getting nowhere. If anyone can explain step by step, the math of how to figure out these things, and how to determine my scope of what I can and can't do with the equipment provided, that would be extremely helpful. I am waiting for a multimeter in the mail, but until then, if I wrap some coils, and test it on my regulated box without a multimeter, can i use the display on that to test the resistance, without the multimeter, without maybe breaking it? Just want to be safe, and extremely new to this, sorry for my lack of knowledge, theres just so much to learn, and I only have one day off, and want to be able to understand it by the end of the day. And also wondering if the efest is worth it or if I should get another 2500 mah battery and just switch them out as they die? or is the 10 amp safe to use for the builds I'm doing? Anyways any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks guys!

In the case of the 10 amp battery, using a battery cutoff of 3 volts:
watts = volts x amps
Your max watts setting should be 30 watts if using that battery.

 

[JimmyDB]

Appreciate it, and yeah that makes a lot of sense, they definitely tried to mislead me, or the shop themselves haven't even taken the time to really learn about it nearly as much as me, because he seemed convinced it was a 30 amp with 60 amp pulse, which seemed unreal and unneeded. It's all starting to make a lot more sense, I started learning about ohms and batteries yesterday, but I think it's finally starting to click, the one thing I need to practice is really understanding what's really going on and knowing the physics behind electrical currents, and knowing how to apply the equations properly, but all in all, I just needed to know my equipment was safe to use, and now I feel much safer with even this extent of knowledge you have helped me with.

Well, what I have seen, is that a lot of the shop tenders have never had a need to know any of this any more than you did previously... so they are playing catch up as well. Your mileage will vary [greatly] with the quality of shop personnel, even in a vape shop so, it's always best to double check for yourself [or triple check, note my sanity check in the math above] and asking questions on places like ECF is great, because there are always people just looking to point out something incorrect

The battery ratings get confusing for the non-initiated as well. We talk about C's... which is the Capacity of the battery, the mAh rating. We talk about 2C, 5C, 10C... in respect to charging UP and well as running DOWN the batteries, and that number can be different... lower charging C's compared to draining C's. Then just to make things crystal clear, we add in CDR and Pulse... both of which basically require the full spec sheet with proper test results to fully understand what's meant. Normally, I always just presume the CDR is up to but not including a catastrophic failure,... i.e., that puppy can get mightly hot, too hot to hold for 5 seconds but not too hot to cause severe burns of an outdoors-type man with thick hands

If you write notes while talking to sales people, they are more apt to double check before just talking Log how often you catch them wrong... you don't have to share the info, but a log goes a lot further than just memory/feeling when you need to make that next decision on a purchase at full-on retail.

I *have to* say, if you are just learning ohms law and such... please be really really safe. It's easy to make a mistake [see Edisons notepads, or Tesla's]. Best to stay with higher ohms, especially since you have a regulated mod Once you are seriously afraid of what can happen if you make a mistake, then you are ready... once that wears off, is probably about the time you will make your first real mistake

It's really not that bad though... a little bit of work to learn and before you know it you can be off and enjoying yourself without worry!

P.S. There are [as you have probably noticed] different battery chemistries as well as batteries that already have protection circuits and some that don't. Just double check what you are buying, and remember... for a couple dollars more, you can basically always get the better battery and not have to wonder as much.

 

[JimmyDB]

In the case of the 10 amp battery, using a battery cutoff of 3 volts:
watts = volts x amps
Your max watts setting should be 30 watts if using that battery.

The IPV will stop him before he even reaches 3 (cut-off is 3.2V). Why would you base your max setting on the cut-off? [See, we can all learn something new]

 

[JimmyDB]

welcome to the world of BS. You will hear different pulse ratings on batteries because it means nothing. It is a fictional thing that was made up to sell batteries.
Vapeing above the constant discharge rate is not advised.

Pulse ratings aren't made up... they are a complete requirement when designing equipment. If the pulse ratings of the battery a manufacturer is choosing to use can't handle the load, you have to add capacitance on the boards... it can be quite expensive, consumes more board space, can lead to adding layers to the PCB design (more costs and complexity), etc,.

I do agree in the respect though that they aren't very helpful for vapers, but in general, they are real things with real tests.

 

[edyle]

The IPV will stop him before he even reaches 3 (cut-off is 3.2V). Why would you base your max setting on the cut-off? [See, we can all learn something new]

As the battery voltage drops, a regulated wattage mod has to draw higher current from the battery to get the power.
So to figure out the max amps that the regulated wattage will draw from the battery, you need to use the lowest voltage that the battery will be.

It's the opposite with a mech; with a mech, the battery outputs max amps when the battery if fully charged.