Newbie has some questions

[Klaue]

Hi there
Firstly let me say that I read as much as possible in these forums. But with this many posts it's not really possible to read everything, so I hope you won't mind if some/all of the questions were allready answered elsewhere. I hope you'll understand what I'm writing. I think I'm pretty good at english but this could be a delusion because I'm actually a german speaking Swiss. I've found a german forum about e-cigarettes, but the niveau there seems to be very low - this forum here seems to be a much better alternative with people who are actually acting adult and who know lots about those e-cigarettes

I would like to add that djinni717 at youtube, who also has an account here (however, I forgot the user name) was allready kindly enough to answer some of my questions.

The Questions:
1) I read in this forum about the time it takes for such an e-cig to die. I noticed timespans like 15 days or 5 weeks. So, how long does one life usually? Here in Switzerland, the selling of e-cigs is prohibited for anyone who doesn't have a medical licence, so I'd have to import it, probably with a large tax impact. Therefore, such an e-cig would most likely be quite expensive for me and if it doesn't even last 15 days I'd rather forget it. I think around half a year would be the minimum for me. So, are only the cheap cigs prone to die after a short time span or also the expensive ones? Is there one that lifes for at least half a year?

2) I read many times about e-liquid and dripping, but I have no idea what that means. The forum post linked in the FAQ cleared it a bit but brought up another question: Is this liquid, which is seemingly only optainable (sp?) on e-cig.com (which would cost me huge amounts of money just in sending costs), really needed? Is a e-cigarette really virtually worthless without it? Or was that just in the beginning and nowadays it's omitable? djinni717 told me, the liquid is for refilling the catridges, but why not just use a new catridge? I'm pretty lost with this subject.

3) Is there anywhere a list of catridges compared to cigarette brands or something like this? My problem is that I actually like the taste of "my" brand (Chesterfield), can accept the taste of brands like Parisienne (no idea if that's just a local brand) but hate the Taste of some others (like Marlboro), so I would really like catridges simulating the Chesterfield-taste but not the marlboro taste. djinni717 allready told me that the taste is quite different to normal smoking, but what does it mimic the best?

4) If there is nothing like a such list (or not-awful-tasting-tobacco-flavors), what is your personal preference?

5) Which brand of e-cigs is the best? I read around in the review forum and it seems it's either njoy or sedansa, but I don't know which one. I read somewhere that njoy is EU-based, so I think that would be my preference. djinni717 also recommended me the njoy, so what is your opinion?

6) What is Ryuan? I read here somewhere that njoy is an original ryuan or something like this. what does that mean?

7) Which sort of catridges? What is the effective difference between "high", "low" and so on? Which one is to be preferred for someone smoking about a pack a day (slightly less) of Chesterfield (6 mg tar, 0.5 mg nicotine, 7mg carbon monoxide)? I couldn't really get more informations about it on the vendor pages.

8) Is it really save? I only head about the saveness/healthyness of e-cigs in this forum and on the vendor pages, but I'm sceptical. Firstly, nicotine is a really potent poison (more dangerous than arsenic), so is it really save in those doses? What if the e-cig malfunctiones and you get a spill of the content of a catridge in the mouth, wouldn't that be really dangerous? What about the propylene glycol? Many sources say it's harmles taken orally, but about all of them talk about swallowing it, not breathing it in. The only information about breathing it in I could find was on Wikipedia: "Inhalation of the propylene glycol vapors appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that inhalation of propylene glycol mists could be irritating to some individuals. Therefore inhalation exposure to mists of these materials should be avoided." This doesn't sound really promising for me. If you have any concrete informations on the harmfullness or harmlessness of nicotine and/or propylene glycol, I'd love to hear them. Sourced opinions would be preferred for two reasons: Firstly, I could be sure about it and secondly, I could use it to preach to fellow smokers


...lots of text
I hope the people here are willing to answer some or all of my questions. As I said, I'd probably have to pay a high import tax, so I'm not really willing to test many different products and would like to know what I have to know beforehand

Yours, Klaue (aka flatterkatz @ youtube)

 

[Oliver]

Hi there Klaue,

I will go through your questions in order:

1) Reliability is a significant issue with e-cigs at present. There are no vendors that can guarantee a product with indefinite lifespan that I know of. However, there are some that offer very reasonable warranties (Njoy, Sedansa etc), so I would always recommend buying from them.

2) Dripping is a technique that was originally developed to get a denser smoke from e-cigarettes than can be provided by the cartridge technology alone. It involves dripping e-liquid (found in the cartridges or bought separately) directly onto the atomizer.

E-liquid can be bought separately, as can the cartridge cores (ie, without liquid). The reason that people do this is simply that it saves money compared to buying the ready-prepared cartridges. Additionally, some users have started mixing different flavors of e-liquid to develop new "cocktail" flavors.

E-cig are a firm favorite of many. There is also Freesmoke who are in the EU and have their liquid mixed in a spanish pharmacy - they are my personal choice simply because of the quality control that is offered by having their product manufactured in a clinical setting in the EU.

3) Flavor is a tricky one. There are companies that offer specific brands as flavors, but in truth 90% of the flavor of cigarettes is caused by the combustible organic compounds found in tobacco. Since there is no combustion that takes place in an e-cigarette, the flavors have to be replicated using food-grade flavorings.

Therefore, e-cigarettes do not really "taste" the same as cigarettes, and you are unlikely to be able to replicate the flavor of your favorite brand.

However I found, and I think many others will agree, that this is almost beside the point. The e-smoking experience is quite different from smoking cigarettes, and accordingly you will find that you develop a different set of preferences for your e-smoke. Bear in mind especially that after a period without tobacco smoke, your sense of smell will improve greatly!

4) My personal preference is cherry from Freesmoke. Flue cured from e-cig is a favorite of many on this forum.

5) I can't answer this, except to say that in terms of quality, Njoy is the best I have tried. Again, the priority is to buy from a vendor that offers a decent warranty.

6) Ruyan is the brand of the company that originally developed the e-cigarette. Their units are said to be the best quality by those that have used them and compared with others. However, they are very expensive and for the money spent, the gain in quality is marginal.

Ruyan licensed their design to several companies, of which Njoy is one. They don't manufacture Njoy's product.

7) This is another tricky one because it depends on how you smoke the e-cigarette. Some users find that because the e-cig doesn't have a natural cut-off point (Ie burning out!) they puff and puff on it continuously. Clearly if you are doing this you will be taking in a large dose of nicotine.

My suggestion is to start with medium and see how you go. If you find yourself habitually puffing, you may wish to change to low, or if you are very disciplined, you may decided that high nicotine would suit you.

8) Safety is a big concern for all of us. The first point to be made is the obvious one that since there are no carcinogenic/mutagenic chemicals or carbon monoxide in e-cigarettes, they are far safer than smoking tobacco.

However, as you point out, some individuals cannot tolerate inhaling propylene glycol as it causes irritation. Propylene glycol should not cause any lasting damage since it is metabolized in the body into lactic acid which is easily excreted.

As far as nicotine is concerned yes you are right, it is a poison and it does have health implications. No-one should ever describe nicotine use as "safe". The e-cigarette is harm-reduction. Users recognize that they have an addiction to nicotine and use the e-cigarette as a safer alternative to tobacco. Clearly all the risks associated with nicotine use remain.

As far as sourced material goes, there isn't a huge amount at the moment. There are clinical trials taking place around the world - A New-Zealand organization called HealthNZ carried out a preliminary safety test on the Ruyan device which you can find here (pdf)

In Malaysia, Dr Loi is carrying out an ongoing study into the e-cigarette with 300 or so of his patients. He is a member and regular poster at this forum and you should have a look at his thread here


I hope I have cleared up some of your questions/concerns. If you have any more, feel free to ask and I'm sure one of this forum's fantastic members will answer!

SJ

 

[Klaue]

EDIT: why is this all blue? weird

Thank you very much, Smokey_Joe, that really helped.

E-liquid can be bought separately, as can the cartridge cores (ie, without liquid). The reason that people do this is simply that it saves money compared to buying the ready-prepared cartridges. Additionally, some users have started mixing different flavors of e-liquid to develop new "cocktail" flavors.

Hmm.. I think the money doesn't really matter for me because the catridges are cheaper than cigarettes anyway, but the mixing sonds interesting. If I buy an e-cigarette, I'll probably try it. Are the E-Fluids just flavors or the real deal (with nicotine and all)? And are the empty catridges from freesmoke.us compatible with NJOY?

E-cig are a firm favorite of many. There is also Freesmoke who are in the EU and have their liquid mixed in a spanish pharmacy - they are my personal choice simply because of the quality control that is offered by having their product manufactured in a clinical setting in the EU.

Are they relieable? I mean, the website looks like it was made from a 10-year-old or it was never updated since 1997.. Looks a bit untrustworthy to me. (I'm just happy that i've got my "zap colors"-bookmarklet)

However I found, and I think many others will agree, that this is almost beside the point. The e-smoking experience is quite different from smoking cigarettes, and accordingly you will find that you develop a different set of preferences for your e-smoke. Bear in mind especially that after a period without tobacco smoke, your sense of smell will improve greatly!

Ok, thanks. I'll probably try to buy a wide variety of flavors to try it all (ok, not all because freesmoke has 20 or more flavors )

5) I can't answer this, except to say that in terms of quality, Njoy is the best I have tried. Again, the priority is to buy from a vendor that offers a decent warranty.

Yep, I read your review. Sounds good

7) This is another tricky one because it depends on how you smoke the e-cigarette. Some users find that because the e-cig doesn't have a natural cut-off point (Ie burning out!) they puff and puff on it continuously. Clearly if you are doing this you will be taking in a large dose of nicotine.

I think I'm pretty save from the chain vaping - I allready decided to still go outside to smoke at home and at work. It may sound silly, but I enjoy the fresh air and the ~5 mins where nothing distracs me so I can sort my thoughts. I had some of my best Ideas while quietly smoking outside

8) Safety is a big concern for all of us. The first point to be made is the obvious one that since there are no carcinogenic/mutagenic chemicals or carbon monoxide in e-cigarettes, they are far safer than smoking tobacco.
[...]
The e-cigarette is harm-reduction. Users recognize that they have an addiction to nicotine and use the e-cigarette as a safer alternative to tobacco.

Yes, that's clear. I just wondered how dangerous it still is because the vendors say it's not at all in the advertising on their pages.

I hope I have cleared up some of your questions/concerns. If you have any more, feel free to ask and I'm sure one of this forum's fantastic members will answer!

You sure did. Thank you for all the Info and the links (esp. the interim safety report, it's really interesting)

 

[Oliver]

EDIT: why is this all blue? weird

----> It does that on your new post for some reason. I shall change it when I have time!

Thank you very much, Smokey_Joe, that really helped.

E-liquid can be bought separately, as can the cartridge cores (ie, without liquid). The reason that people do this is simply that it saves money compared to buying the ready-prepared cartridges. Additionally, some users have started mixing different flavors of e-liquid to develop new "cocktail" flavors.

Hmm.. I think the money doesn't really matter for me because the catridges are cheaper than cigarettes anyway, but the mixing sonds interesting. If I buy an e-cigarette, I'll probably try it. Are the E-Fluids just flavors or the real deal (with nicotine and all)? And are the empty catridges from freesmoke.us compatible with NJOY?

-----> E-liquids are the real deal, you chose your nicotine strength. I can't tell you whether the cartridges are compatible - there is an issue between brands and cartridges due to their length. I use Njoy's original cartridges, just replacing the wool material which I buy from a pet store. That and dripping.

E-cig are a firm favorite of many. There is also Freesmoke who are in the EU and have their liquid mixed in a spanish pharmacy - they are my personal choice simply because of the quality control that is offered by having their product manufactured in a clinical setting in the EU.

Are they relieable? I mean, the website looks like it was made from a 10-year-old or it was never updated since 1997.. Looks a bit untrustworthy to me. (I'm just happy that i've got my "zap colors"-bookmarklet)

-----> I agree their site design leaves a lot to be desired. I have ordered several times from them and had no problems.

[quote:378ly4fl]However I found, and I think many others will agree, that this is almost beside the point. The e-smoking experience is quite different from smoking cigarettes, and accordingly you will find that you develop a different set of preferences for your e-smoke. Bear in mind especially that after a period without tobacco smoke, your sense of smell will improve greatly!

Ok, thanks. I'll probably try to buy a wide variety of flavors to try it all (ok, not all because freesmoke has 20 or more flavors )

-------> I'd wait until you have tried your new device before you order e-liquid, just to make sure that e-smoking is definitely for you.

8) Safety is a big concern for all of us. The first point to be made is the obvious one that since there are no carcinogenic/mutagenic chemicals or carbon monoxide in e-cigarettes, they are far safer than smoking tobacco.
[...]
The e-cigarette is harm-reduction. Users recognize that they have an addiction to nicotine and use the e-cigarette as a safer alternative to tobacco.

[/quote:378ly4fl]
Yes, that's clear. I just wondered how dangerous it still is because the vendors say it's not at all in the advertising on their pages.

------> Yes, many vendors do seem to be making unsubstantiated claims. I wish they wouldn't.

 

[accordeur]

That was a great post SJ. Maybe you should put it up a sticky thread called "for newbies" in the FAQ section!!!

By the way, I have bought pen-styles from Njoy, E-cig and deal extreme. They are all broken at the moment and I am waiting for replacements. I also had a semi-automatic cigar drom dealextreme which was THE best for the time it lasted .The button broke. Right now I am using an automatic cigar from e-cig and I have to say it is THE best so far. It works consistently, is cheap and reliable (so far). The fact that the battery is separate from the vacuum switch makes it a simpler design and the atomizer head being bigger gives more vapour. Good luck.

 

[Oliver]

That was a great post SJ. Maybe you should put it up a sticky thread called "for newbies" in the FAQ section!!!

Thanks! Done.

 

[vafvaf]

That was a great post SJ. Maybe you should put it up a sticky thread called "for newbies" in the FAQ section!!!

really great introduction to e-smoking; thank SJ. now i know were to link everyone whom i tell about e-smoking

 

[Klaue]

Thanks again, Smokey_Joe

-----> E-liquids are the real deal, you chose your nicotine strength. I can't tell you whether the cartridges are compatible - there is an issue between brands and cartridges due to their length. I use Njoy's original cartridges, just replacing the wool material which I buy from a pet store. That and dripping.

Hmm, I think I could just test-order one and hope it works

-----> I agree their site design leaves a lot to be desired. I have ordered several times from them and had no problems.

That's good to hear - I think I'll give it a try

-------> I'd wait until you have tried your new device before you order e-liquid, just to make sure that e-smoking is definitely for you.

You're right. I must keep myself from getting to excited about it
But I think I try out one or two flavors anyway, just to be sure that it's not just the flavor I don't like if I dislike 'vaping'. Would be a shame if I abandoned e-smoking just because of the flavor, wouldn't it?

EDIT: forgot something:
What I also wanted to ask is.. is there everything an e-smoker should have? Some replacement parts for example? If I can change myself to a full-time-e-smoker and then the e-smoke breaks, I would be in quite some problems..
I know, I should slow down and just try it before I buy replacement parts, but better safe than sorry

Hmm.. I think I just found out why my post was blue.. I think I accidentally double-closed the quote-tag
EDIT: Nah, that's not it. Maybe the forum can not handle multiple quotes? Anyway, I forced the color in this post to white now

 

[katink]

Hi Klaue, welcome to e-smoking!
Just to answer your concern about the blue posts: your own posts are in blue for you; but others reading it see it in white like all other posts. I guess it's a feature to make it easier for you to later locate your own posts in a thread

If you live near to a border (pretty big chance of that, living in Switzerland); might be possible to make a daytrip to a neighbouring country one day, when you decided which device you will be taking; and go get it there yourself? Also, at least that's the way it works in the rest of europe, customs certainly don't open all packages. You can be lucky that your package just goes through without being held by customs, and then there are no additional customs-costs either.

As to brands: if you are anywhere near the french border, I think both Janty and Sedansa are (good) brands that are used a lot in that country. And if looking for good and not expensive cartridges: it might be a good idea to look at the Janty-cartridges for you. Far far cheaper then NJoy-ones (5 for E 4.50); and they have different tastes to try.

If you decide to buy an Njoy, what you could do is order along one or two of their boxes of cartridges; then when you used a cartridge, just dispose of the wool in it but keep the rest; then take a Janty-cartridge; and if that doesn't fit your Njoy, then simply (carefully, it's full with liquid) pull out the Janty-filling with a set of tweezers; and put that into an Njoy-cartridge you saved. Tap the now empty cartridge of your Janty a bit, upside down above the new cartridge, to get any last drops of left-behind liquid back into the wool you just moved; and then on you go, smoke with a cheap set of Njoy-outer-cartridge/Janty-inner-filling. (more tips can be found in tips-and-tricks).

Hope you find your way in e-smoking country. It is amazing for many, hope for you too.

 

[Klaue]

Hi Katink

Just to answer your concern about the blue posts: your own posts are in blue for you; but others reading it see it in white like all other posts. I guess it's a feature to make it easier for you to later locate your own posts in a thread

Ah, "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

If you live near to a border (pretty big chance of that, living in Switzerland); might be possible to make a daytrip to a neighbouring country one day, when you decided which device you will be taking; and go get it there yourself? Also, at least that's the way it works in the rest of europe, customs certainly don't open all packages. You can be lucky that your package just goes through without being held by customs, and then there are no additional customs-costs either.

a relative of mine has a postal adress right at the swiss-german-border, on the germany site. I think I order it to there and go to grab it when it arrives.

As to brands: if you are anywhere near the french border, I think both Janty and Sedansa are (good) brands that are used a lot in that country. And if looking for good and not expensive cartridges: it might be a good idea to look at the Janty-cartridges for you. Far far cheaper then NJoy-ones (5 for E 4.50); and they have different tastes to try.

That would be a good idea, but i don't know a word of french. besides, france is quite a distance from here (where germany is only about 30 mins away). Too bad I can't find the catridges online to see what flavors they'd have.
But I think I'll use the e-fluid from freesmoke, that seems to be easier

Hope you find your way in e-smoking country. It is amazing for many, hope for you too.

Yah, I hope that too

 

[katink]

This is what you would be looking for (and with an address on the border of course you could use this one too to have it sent to you): http://www.ruyanxpress.com/ - go to cartridges, then press details to get to the tastes.
I haven't used freesmoke liquid, bit too expensive (in my view); but I'm sure that is a good one for liquid

 

[BananaDoc]

As a fellow Newb i would like to add my own question. It concerns the art of dripping:

I quit smoking a month before i bought my e-cig... Because i had gotten through with the nicotine withdrawal stuff ahead of time, i opted for the zero-nic cartridges. Since i am not after the nicotine infusion--should i go for the esmoke liquid or would any essential oils do? Would vanilla extract gives me yummy vanilla smoke? Or am i missing a big obvious problem here?

your thoughts? :ugeek:

 

[katink]

No oils - that will render your atomizer useless real soon...
Guess you could go look at the baking-shelves in your supermarket, for PG-based (propyleen-glycol, same as you mainly find in e-liquid) flavours.
Or waterbased flavours, and mix that with e-liquid - for which you could use tasteless; or alternatively with a taste, and use the flavour either to strengthen that taste, or use the taste in the liquid to blend with a flavour you put in.
There is a thread on this here too: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/phpBB3/combo-flavors-anyone--t270.html

That thread also has some links to shops with lots of flavour-choices. Worth reading perhaps-I think you will find some answers there

 

[TropicalBob]

As you'll find in the Combo Flavors thread, I'm a fan of trying new flavors. Everything I've done so far is better than what's sold commercially. I should note I have added vanilla extract by Cook's. NO OILS. It's alcohol based, and the alcohol seems to evaporate immediately. It produces a nice taste. I will be experimenting with propylene glycol flavors from Bickford's soon Check out that Combo Flavors thread!

 

[NerdyCinderella]

Can people address my latest burning question? I apologize if this has been addressed already but I’m just beginning to read all of the Tips & Tricks section.

What are your experiences re: vaporing with a lesser nicotine strength and the amount of vapor one experiences?
In other words, if I went from a high strength cartridge to a medium and then later to a low strength cartridge should I expect to experience less vapor?

I'm concerned about overdosing on the nicotine but I really like and need the vapor experience.

Thank you for any of your responses.
[right:2xql43ig]vaporing responsibly

[/right:2xql43ig]

 

[TropicalBob]

It's not nicotine that produces the vapor, so you shouldn't experience less vapor with less nicotine content. Be aware that the "quit smoking" liquid is ... yuck.

 

[NerdyCinderella]

Thanks again. My mind told me that but my feelings say otherwise -

[right:1i9cdl8m]

for now[/right:1i9cdl8m]