Newbies: Avoid using your ecig USB charger on your cellphone :)

[sluz]

Since I gave my nice Droid X charger to my gf (who lost hers, of course) I was stuck with an old adapter that took a LOOOONG time to fill up my phone (almost, but not quite, as much time as my new Echo's charger takes to charge its 1300MAH battery). So, I decided my 808D1 charger might do a better job.

Oh boy, did it do a good job. I think I charged my Droid X from zilch to full in 45 minutes or so. Cool right? It then worked fine for another ecig charge. So, thrilled with my new discovery, and completely oblivious to the fact that I was probably damaging both my battery, cell phone, and charger, I tried it again the next day.

Zoooooom, up went my battery level. I think even faster. Then it just stopped charging after about 15 minutes. Observers noted that the charger LED had gone out. Subsequent attempts to charge an ecig battery were failures. It was clearly fried.

Luckily, the phone seems fine, it charges normally The battery has normal life (ie., crappy) for a smaht phone. But let this be a lesson to ye: read those little white numbers on your USB chargers and look at the manual or your original charger before you decide to play e-hacker and feed your devices currents they're not used to.

 

[Olef]

Kudos for posting up the error for others to learn from You are lucky you did not have fire / explosion. As you have said - never ever use anything other than the approved charger

 

[LibertyValance]

Uh, I'm not that sure about this. I have many iphone power adapters, which I love because they are absolutely tiny and good for travel. They are high output I think about an amp.

I use them for my Droid X, Ego, and my wife's 510 cig. Is the only adapter I travel with because I refuse to carry a boatload of usb chargers with me. No problems so far after about a year. If a device has a USB port it should be Ok with chargers of varying amperage I would think in most cases. After all the USB adapter is a universal plug we'd be having explosions by the thousands a day otherwise.

This is different from threading a 510 battery onto an ego charger, because in that case the battery is on the other side of the protective circuitry, a totally different thing.

 

[BardicDruid]

Anytime you swap chargers you running the of something frying, chargers have different current levels. As my former roommate figured out the hard way by toasting a laptop, just because it'll work once or maybe twice doesn't make it correct.

 

[LibertyValance]

Swapping laptop chargers is a BAD idea unless you check the voltage and amperage, because often times its completely different, but uses a similar plug. USB is different. Its a standard voltage (although the current varies). You can plug a USB device into any laptop without fear it will blow up.

 

[bladebarrier]

Swapping laptop chargers is a BAD idea unless you check the voltage and amperage, because often times its completely different, but uses a similar plug. USB is different. Its a standard voltage (although the current varies). You can plug a USB device into any laptop without fear it will blow up.

Unless it has a Sony battery

 

[woody55]

As a 35yr electronic tech and a many year computer specialist I can tell you the output of a USB port is always 5 volts. Doesn't matter if it is a wall charger with USB port, Car charger with USB port or the USB port on a computer. They are all 5 volts. sounds like something else was wrong to me. It could have been a current limitation but most are atleast an amp now so it shouldn't have been a problem.

 

[bladebarrier]

As a 35yr electronic tech and a many year computer specialist I can tell you the output of a USB port is always 5 volts. Doesn't matter if it is a wall charger with USB port, Car charger with USB port or the USB port on a computer. They are all 5 volts. sounds like something else was wrong to me. It could have been a current limitation but most are atleast an amp now so it shouldn't have been a problem.

I'm actually curious what the model is, so I can look it up.

He said there's an LED on the cable, so there had to be some internal electronics aside from the wires. If something tried to draw more current then it's designed for, that part could fail.

It must be a very oddball cable to have something like that built in.

I agree that the USB connection would not hurt the phone or the battery. I swap USB's between all my ecigs, phones, bluetooths, etc. The USB cable itself won't cause any damage, except possibly bottle-necking the charge speed.

 

[sluz]

I think we're having a semantic issue...It was not the cable or connector itself that went kaput, but the adaptor, the wall-wart. These should all be exchangable, as they SHOULD only put out a maximum of 500ma per USB specs.

Interestingly, however, I just checked the USB connector. Now this IS odd, one is rated at 200ma, the other at 150ma. So the one on the left is from the 808D1, the one on the right is from my new Echo. I am very tempted to see if the Echo can handle 200MA, but I've read it's a bad idea, those huge batteries like to be charged slowly...

And now for the explanation of why my original power supply died: the Droid X is designed for a non-standard Motorola power adapter. It outputs at 850MA! So when I stuck the Droid on the Ecig adapter, it tried to pull 850MA out of a power supply that could only supply 500ma. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the power supply must have been faulty: its own circuitry should never have allowed it to put out 850ma.

 

[bladebarrier]

Those have different output voltages, so I certainly wouldn't put the Echo on the other kr808 charger.

I'm still not completely following the Droid X part though. You used an ecig wall adapter (AC to USB), connected to a normal 850ma rated motorola usb cable (or similar), which charged the phone and it died?

I'm guessing it was the one for the 4.2V kr808 that uses the adapter above, and not a typical 5V one?

I'm afraid I'm not qualified to answer if that would do it, but 4.2 is not standard for devices with internal power supplies that drop the voltage on their own, and would be my guess as the culprit.

EDIT: Scratch that. I'm not sure that would really matter when it comes to a Li-On battery (as far as the phone is concerned, as it has an internal power supply to convert the input to 4.2v).

 

[sluz]

Those have different output voltages, so I certainly wouldn't put the Echo on the other kr808 charger.

I'm still not completely following the Droid X part though. You used an ecig wall adapter (AC to USB), connected to a normal 850ma rated motorola usb cable (or similar), which charged the phone and it died?

I'm guessing it was the one for the 4.2V kr808 that uses the adapter above, and not a typical 5V one?

I already threw out the KR808 wallwart so I have no idea what it was rated at...It was obviously less than 850ma! It tried to output at that....I think it was just cheap circuitry, because a normal lower ma power adapter is fine with the Droid X, it just charges slower.

 

[bladebarrier]

I already threw out the KR808 wallwart so I have no idea what it was rated at...It was obviously less than 850ma! It tried to output at that....I think it was just cheap circuitry, because a normal lower ma power adapter is fine with the Droid X, it just charges slower.

Exactly. Probably just bad luck, and cheap quality. I forwarded the question on to someone that would know much more than I, so maybe if he has time we'll get a better answer. Just don't mix and match ecig chargers and ecig batteries, unless you're sure they're the same.

 

[TxParamedic]

Thanks for the tip, you guys are helping me avoid a lot of mistakes!

 

[noashAsh]

This is all such great information to have! Thank you so much for posting about mishaps you've experienced! I'll make sure to double check all of my things now before saying "Hey it fits! Good enough!"

 

[DaveP]

Computer USB ports are current limited to 500mah, the same as the basic Ego charger. I think the OP was right in that the phone tried to suck higher amperage from a 200mah charger and it only worked once or twice. As long as the voltage delivered is correct, a device will only draw current based on the impedance of the load. Just like you can use 40 watt, 60 watt, and 100 watt bulbs on a 20A wall outlet, you can use a higher amp rated charger on a device designed for other uses, as long as the voltage rating is the same. This, again, is based on the USB standard, NOT on the dongle that screws into your Ecig and plugs into the USB port on the adapter! That's why an Ego charger will fry a 510 standard battery.

 

[bladebarrier]

Computer USB ports are current limited to 500mah, the same as the basic Ego charger. I think the OP was right in that the phone tried to suck higher amperage from a 200mah charger and it only worked once or twice. As long as the voltage delivered is correct, a device will only draw current based on the impedance of the load. Just like you can use 40 watt, 60 watt, and 100 watt bulbs on a 20A wall outlet, you can use a higher amp rated charger on a device designed for other uses, as long as the voltage rating is the same. This, again, is based on the USB standard, NOT on the dongle that screws into your Ecig! That's why an Ego charger will fry a 510 standard battery.

I'm not sure I follow regarding the current draw being the factor. Not after realizing that it was just a basic AC to DC/USB wall adapter with a USB cable attached.

Indulge me here, and feel free to correct me. I'm not an EE, but as I understand it, a standard USB 2.0 controller (in your mobo, or otherwise), is rated to output 500ma. A droid X cable from motorola (stock oem) is designed to handle up to 850ma. The phone is designed to regulate the voltage to 4.2v, which is typical for a li-on, and draw up to 850ma while charging. My computer has 6 devices connected at all times, and then the 7th and 8th are a phone and ecig. The 500ma output has to be split between all of those devices, thus the phone might see between 250-500 depending on the drain of the other devices at any given time. But here's what I don't follow. My mobo controller doesn't die from the phone attempting to draw 850ma, nor do my wall adapters that are only rated at 500ma. The phone draws what it can, but it never can draw more than what the pipe can feed it, so to speak.

Btw, mah an ma are very different. ma is milliamps, which is a sustained output measurement, mah is millamp hours, which is a rating of sustained output over time (mostly for batteries). Please don't take offense, as I'm guessing you just typo'd, as we use mah in these forums so much more than ma.

 

[DaveP]

I'm not sure I follow regarding the current draw being the factor. Not after realizing that it was just a basic AC to DC/USB wall adapter with a USB cable attached.

Indulge me here, and feel free to correct me. I'm not an EE, but as I understand it, a standard USB 2.0 controller (in your mobo, or otherwise), is rated to output 500ma. A droid X cable from motorola (stock oem) is designed to handle up to 850ma. The phone is designed to regulate the voltage to 4.2v, which is typical for a li-on, and draw up to 850ma while charging. My computer has 6 devices connected at all times, and then the 7th and 8th are a phone and ecig. The 500ma output has to be split between all of those devices, thus the phone might see between 250-500 depending on the drain of the other devices at any given time. But here's what I don't follow. My mobo controller doesn't die from the phone attempting to draw 850ma, nor do my wall adapters that are only rated at 500ma. The phone draws what it can, but it never can draw more than what the pipe can feed it, so to speak.

Btw, mah an ma are very different. ma is milliamps, which is a sustained output measurement, mah is millamp hours, which is a rating of sustained output over time (mostly for batteries). Please don't take offense, as I'm guessing you just typo'd, as we use mah in these forums so much more than ma.

The USB spec for computers is a standard 500ma output. The charger the OP had was rated at 500mah output per his OP. It burned up while charging his phone. USB is a standard, but specialty chargers aren't necessarily following the standard for output. If you look at the picture in post #9, the charger on the right says 5V 500ma input, 5v 150ma output. Draw is based pretty much on load resistance unless there is circuitry controlling delivery. In his case, I think his wall wart was weak and died under the load pulled by his phone. The dongle shown in post #9 indicates that the ecig it was designed for pulled 150ma ouput normally, so the charger wasn't stressed until he plugged his phone into it. Then, it went South after a couple of high drain uses. I'd bet it he buys another USB AC adapter from Walmart, it will all work fine again. He was a victim of offshore QC.

My Droid Eris charges from a proprietary 5v 1A charger, which non-standard for the USB spec. A standard USB port will deliver 500ma per port and you need piggy back cables to drive devices such as USB external hard drives that need more than 500ma. Each port on your computer should be able to deliver 500ma current at 5v. Depending on the revision level of the USB controller, you could be allowed to draw up to 900ma in battery charging mode from your computer's USB port. If the port doesn't allow it, charging your phone might take longer than using the supplied USB charger that came with your phone.

More info than you'd ever want to know here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus

In Battery Charging Specification,[39] new powering modes are added to the USB specification. A host or hub Charging Downstream Port can supply a maximum of 1.5 A when communicating at low-bandwidth or full-bandwidth, a maximum of 900 mA when communicating at high-bandwidth, and as much current as the connector will safely handle when no communication is taking place; USB 2.0 standard-A connectors are rated at 1.5 A by default. A Dedicated Charging Port can supply a maximum of 1.8 A of current at 5.25 V. A portable device can draw up to 1.8 A from a Dedicated Charging Port. The Dedicated Charging Port shorts the D+ and D- pins with a resistance of at most 200 Ω. The short disables data transfer, but allows devices to detect the Dedicated Charging Port and allows very simple, high current chargers to be manufactured. The increased current (faster, 9 W charging) will occur once both the host/hub and devices support the new charging specification.

 

[Snowblind.]

Thank you for the tip.

 

[bladebarrier]

1. The pictures he has there are 808/901 chargers. Not the adapter he used to charge the phone. Those are ecig connectors that you screw them into.

2. You're correct in that each 2.0 port is required to output 500ma, however a hub, or the front panel of a pc, is considered one port. They may or may not exceed that spec. Usually front ports are the bare minimum. Now if you always connect your phone to a rear usb port to charge it, that would be correct that it should be able to receive 500ma per port, as your external hard drive scenario implies, however USB connections on the front of a case are typically shared.

3. This doesn't address the fact that 500mah, and lower, DC to USB (5v or 4.2v) converters don't typically fry when connected to a cell phone designed to draw a higher power. Nor do front USB connections that are shared, or inexpensive USB hubs.

The parts quoted in reference 39 of the wiki refer to maximum draw amounts. It's not worded very well there, and it's 2009 standard, but from reading the pdf section of what is referenced, it states that those are maximum allowed outputs for a USB 2.0 port, not what they normally are manufactured at. It's the absolute limit it is allowed to output if a manufacturer so decided, not the required minimum.

However, I suppose this is irrelevant, as we're discussing a wall adapter. My only intended example in referencing a computer is that I've never killed a computer USB port with my phone, even when it was a front shared port that was no where near capable of keeping up with the draw, as is shown by the slower charging time.

 

[sluz]

Yes, after much research, I've decided it wasn't REALLY my fault. The adapter should not have failed, because it never should have tried to supply my phone with more than 500ma in the first place. It was just cheap circuitry.

Incidentally, one of the things I like about motherboard is that Gigabyte has seen fit to exceed the USB specifications. The front USB ports, in addition to being able to charge a device while the computer is off, can put out more than 500ma. 1500ma to be exact! That's enough to power just about anything you could think to plug into it (according to this anyway...)Anyway, it's great for me as a vaper. Fewer adapters to keep track of.

I wonder how much of this depends on the cord...For instance, those connectors for the batteries I took a picture of state what they can do, but if you get a standard data USB cord, I don't really know what it will do. I would think that my Droid would charge faster on my uber-USB ports, but it doesn't, so I think my cheap replacement cord doesn't supply more than 500ma.