nHaler LV atty

[Scottbee]

Another reason that no warranty is offered on these units.. is that frankly people don't do their research and don't know what the heck they are doing. An obvious example is a rather outspoken woman on this forum and board who has .....ed endlessly about the short lifespan of the LR atty, and the lack of a warranty. Flash-forward a little bit and we find out that she has been running these things at high voltage..... even though all the literature and advertisements CLEARLY state that they are designed to run at 3.7V.

I don't think that Drew or any of the other vendors are hiding the fact that there is no warranty on these units. It is clearly stated on all of the purchase sites that I have visited, and it has been made quite clear by the vendors and on these forums.

So if you buy one.. and it fails.. and you're ...... because there is no warranty.. all I can say is that you're an idiot.

Sorry if that's a little harsh.....

(Not really... I'm not sorry at all. "Idiot" is being kind.)

 

[Rocketman]

So if you buy one.. and it fails.. and you're ...... because there is no warranty.. all I can say is that you're an idiot.

Sorry if that's a little harsh.....

(Not really... I'm not sorry at all. "Idiot" is being kind.)

Are you implying 'all we can hope for is maybe they'll vape them at HV using a PipeBomb stacked battery mod and blow it down their throat'?

;-)

 

[Scottbee]

Are you implying 'all we can hope for is maybe they'll vape them at HV using a PipeBomb stacked battery mod and blow it down their throat'?

;-)

Me thinks maybe your pendulum swung just a little too far the other direction....

 

[Quick1]

short lifespan of the LR atty, and the lack of a warranty. Flash-forward a little bit and we find out that she has been running these things at high voltage.....

(dang, I missed this thread) Yikes! I'm impressed. Do you get a wisp of vaporized liquid? or does the coil vaporize the instant you pull the trigger? Let's see here -- 6.6v @ 1.5ohms would be about .... 29 watts. Holy Flashlight Batman!

 

[francomakou]

My nHaler LR died 3 days after i got it...

I have a Totally Wicked LR and it's going good for over 2 weeks...

It doesn't preform like the nHaler LR... the nHaler LR made more smoke and better throat hit...

I ordered 3 TW LR because they're cheaper

I also removed the bridge and the wick to drip and it got rid of the nasty burnt taste

 

[redrhino]

Scottbee I have a lot of respect for you....As you are very knowledgeable at a lot of things and your opinions are always good ones....So please do not misunderstand this post as being combative.....But i completely disagree with you as far as the LR Atty Warranty is Concerned....Here is why.....

First of all... The only reason why the suppliers don't offer a warranty is because we the Consumers don't demand it....These so called LR atty's Costs the suppliers maybe $1-3 dollars and that's a big maybe the more the supplier buy's the cheaper it gets....How do i know? I don't.... But my Common sense tells me it does.....East Mall is selling LR atty's for $3.00 dollars a piece....Are they the same quality as the other LR atty's sold by other suppliers? Maybe and Maybe not....But as long as we the Consumers keep paying they will keep charging....The prices on the LR atty's have dropped dramatically in the past few weeks....Because more and more suppliers are getting them in stock.... Where is before Drew had Monopolized the LR atty market, and was the first one to introduce it to the the ECF members....If he would have charged $20.00 a piece we would have paid it....No questions asked....No warranty no nothing...Now that the LR atty's are readily available, the price has dropped like a ton of bricks....And some suppliers still have the audacity to charge $10.00 and above....Why is that?....Well let me answer that? Because we as consumers are lead to believe that the $10.00 LR atty is better then the $3.00 LR atty....Even though the LR atty's only last a week two or three or even four...Then why is the $10 dollar one better then the $3 dollar one? Maybe if some of these suppliers started offering a warranty's on these LR atty's that they mark up at least a 1000% if not More, then the $10-$15 price tag wouldn't be so bad... Then there would be a lot less members complaining.....Look at what happened to Totally Wicked. They ignored so many Complaints that they actually thought that they were above the Law....By that i mean not answering for their actions, as a matter of fact they got so cocky that they figured they don't even have to answer to ECF... But Thank God ECF took action against them, other wise they will still be gouging people today....Totally Wicked made so much money of the ECF members that he actually bought a Store in FL....Where do you think that Money came from? I'll tell you where...From selling those 5 pack deals that only 3 or 4 out of 5 worked and the batt deals that he was offering....And people still swear by them till this day go figure..... All that money adds up Scot....I did a post on this somewhere here on ECF and did the math and believe me, the money added up real quick.....So all the suppliers that are selling these so called LR atty's that only last a week or two know damn well that they Just made a 1000% profit from you....So Scott do you NOT think that this practice has got to Stop? All I'm saying is... If the supplier dosen't want to offer a warranty that's fine...We as consumers don't have to buy from them....But the Price Gouging has got to stop....Or at least if you Gouge me give me something in return, Like a Warranty.....

 

[Quick1]

I don't think I agree with that. It's an open market. You charge what the market will bear. You get it first and or exclusively you can charge whatever people are willing to pay. That's the American way. Nothing wrong with that. It does appear to be a lucrative market. Evidenced by the numerous suppliers popping up. I believe there's also a good amount of risk. TW was international. They put up the money to establish a store in FL and, presumably, stock it. If the FDA had been successful (or is in the future) they could have been cut off and lost their investment. Suppliers in NY could be toast at any moment, and numerous other states or even the entire country. That's a lot of uncertainty and there need to be profits sufficient to balance the risk for people to get into the business. You could make the analogy to high risk, high return investments in the stock market. I seriously don't think these guys are getting rich either. I believe that some may be making a decent living and their hopes are to make it big by getting in on the ground floor before things take off and stabilize later. ...or on the other hand they might just crash and dissappear at any moment. I think you'd find that a good number of these suppliers are doing this as a second job they run out of the house. Many are 1 or 2 man operations. I also think it's for these same reasons that you have a lot of variance between suppliers. Some are going to get "greedy" or border on ripping people off. Some will get that way simply because they get overrun by the overhead. You start getting customers, you start getting a customer support load, something like a bad batch of atomizers that you bought in bulk by the thousands and simply repackaged and sent out one order at a time can do you in. Being a cottage industry at this point means that you will get some people jumping in with little to no business experience or savvy. and some of those will get very desperate on their way to failing.

Given all that, I don't think there is any price fixing going on. I believe that any number of these guys would undercut their competition if they thought they could afford to and it was sustainable.

I tend to agree with Scottbee on the possible explanation for the lack of warranty. The atomizers are pretty fragile to start with. Quality control and consistency from the manufacturer sucks. They're all over the board. Atomizers vary significantly in resistance from one to the next for example. There are a boat load of people using a plethora of different mods and pass throughs at different voltages and then there is no shortage of crooks. How about a black market for atomizers? buy atomizers once, sell them to your friends or whoever for half price and their burnt out atomizer. Turn the old one in for a warranty replacement and sell it again. Do that twice and you have free atomizers, do it again and you're making money. I don't think it's practical to put unique serial numbers on these and I certainly don't think it would be cost effective for suppliers to track serial numbers when selling them a few at a time.

That's the ethical side and then there is the competence side. I got in some discussion (she called it an argument) a while back. She said this thing with exploding batteries was alarming yet she wanted to stack batteries. She wanted a guaranteed "safe" solution without her having to get an "electrical degree" (as she put it) or have to make any effort to understand any of it or read the stuff at Battery University. That's the ideal but we're still in the hobby stage of things. My response was that she should do her shopping at Kmart where she could be fairly sure that everything was "safe". lol, could very well have been the same woman Scottbee was refering to. If suppliers were to warranty their atomizers they would have to charge a premium to cover it. In the mean time everybody would flock to buy the inexpensive ones without a warranty.

So I said I agreed with Scottbee. I believe you are right too. If no one bought the cheap ones without a warranty everybody would sell ones with a warranty. Some one IS selling atomizers with a 1 year warranty provided they are not used at over 6v (they got banned on ECF because they screwed up the procedure and fee to be a supplier here). You know who they are. I don't know how they are doing on the other forums. I bought 3 of his atomizers at $15 each. You willing to pay that? Apparently everybody here has not jumped on that deal. (One burnt out in a couple of days. They next one has been going for weeks at 5v. I'm waiting for at least 2 burnt out ones before paying the postage to return them for replacement.) I thought it was a great marketing model. Sell them for 2x or 3x the going price but with a 1 year warranty. He's counting on the majority of them not being returned when they burn out and not more than once if they do come back. More than that and I think he'll go broke. and I suppose he might go broke if enough people rip him off with fraudulent returns. yet another risk taker.

Again, it's a free market. Where I do think you're wrong is in the windfall profits that you assume are being reaped. A viable business has to be sustainable. You have to be making enough to survive that bad batch of 5000 atomizers and the thousands of customers you have to make good and the hundreds or thousands of them you are going to lose anyway because of it... or the risk of losing your 50K of stock because the state made it illegal... or your legal fees because *that* woman blew herself up plugging her passthrough into the wall when her battery ran out and then sued you.

 

[Scottbee]

Redrhino,

I think Quick1 put it pretty well.

If you don't want to pay a certain price for an item... don't buy it.

If you can get it cheaper somewhere else (same product, same quality), then you would be a fool not to buy it there.

If you don't want to buy an item that doesn't have a warranty.... don't buy it.

But don't knowingly buy an item for a certain price without a warranty... and then ..... about the price or the lack of warranty!

The decision is yours to make.. and if you don't like the decision, it is the idiot in the mirror that is to blame.

 

[redrhino]

I don't think I agree with that. It's an open market. You charge what the market will bear. You get it first and or exclusively you can charge whatever people are willing to pay. That's the American way. Nothing wrong with that. It does appear to be a lucrative market. Evidenced by the numerous suppliers popping up. I believe there's also a good amount of risk. TW was international. They put up the money to establish a store in FL and, presumably, stock it. If the FDA had been successful (or is in the future) they could have been cut off and lost their investment. Suppliers in NY could be toast at any moment, and numerous other states or even the entire country. That's a lot of uncertainty and there need to be profits sufficient to balance the risk for people to get into the business. You could make the analogy to high risk, high return investments in the stock market. I seriously don't think these guys are getting rich either. I believe that some may be making a decent living and their hopes are to make it big by getting in on the ground floor before things take off and stabilize later. ...or on the other hand they might just crash and dissappear at any moment. I think you'd find that a good number of these suppliers are doing this as a second job they run out of the house. Many are 1 or 2 man operations. I also think it's for these same reasons that you have a lot of variance between suppliers. Some are going to get "greedy" or border on ripping people off. Some will get that way simply because they get overrun by the overhead. You start getting customers, you start getting a customer support load, something like a bad batch of atomizers that you bought in bulk by the thousands and simply repackaged and sent out one order at a time can do you in. Being a cottage industry at this point means that you will get some people jumping in with little to no business experience or savvy. and some of those will get very desperate on their way to failing.

Given all that, I don't think there is any price fixing going on. I believe that any number of these guys would undercut their competition if they thought they could afford to and it was sustainable.

I tend to agree with Scottbee on the possible explanation for the lack of warranty. The atomizers are pretty fragile to start with. Quality control and consistency from the manufacturer sucks. They're all over the board. Atomizers vary significantly in resistance from one to the next for example. There are a boat load of people using a plethora of different mods and pass throughs at different voltages and then there is no shortage of crooks. How about a black market for atomizers? buy atomizers once, sell them to your friends or whoever for half price and their burnt out atomizer. Turn the old one in for a warranty replacement and sell it again. Do that twice and you have free atomizers, do it again and you're making money. I don't think it's practical to put unique serial numbers on these and I certainly don't think it would be cost effective for suppliers to track serial numbers when selling them a few at a time.

That's the ethical side and then there is the competence side. I got in some discussion (she called it an argument) a while back. She said this thing with exploding batteries was alarming yet she wanted to stack batteries. She wanted a guaranteed "safe" solution without her having to get an "electrical degree" (as she put it) or have to make any effort to understand any of it or read the stuff at Battery University. That's the ideal but we're still in the hobby stage of things. My response was that she should do her shopping at Kmart where she could be fairly sure that everything was "safe". lol, could very well have been the same woman Scottbee was refering to. If suppliers were to warranty their atomizers they would have to charge a premium to cover it. In the mean time everybody would flock to buy the inexpensive ones without a warranty.

So I said I agreed with Scottbee. I believe you are right too. If no one bought the cheap ones without a warranty everybody would sell ones with a warranty. Some one IS selling atomizers with a 1 year warranty provided they are not used at over 6v (they got banned on ECF because they screwed up the procedure and fee to be a supplier here). You know who they are. I don't know how they are doing on the other forums. I bought 3 of his atomizers at $15 each. You willing to pay that? Apparently everybody here has not jumped on that deal. (One burnt out in a couple of days. They next one has been going for weeks at 5v. I'm waiting for at least 2 burnt out ones before paying the postage to return them for replacement.) I thought it was a great marketing model. Sell them for 2x or 3x the going price but with a 1 year warranty. He's counting on the majority of them not being returned when they burn out and not more than once if they do come back. More than that and I think he'll go broke. and I suppose he might go broke if enough people rip him off with fraudulent returns. yet another risk taker.

Again, it's a free market. Where I do think you're wrong is in the windfall profits that you assume are being reaped. A viable business has to be sustainable. You have to be making enough to survive that bad batch of 5000 atomizers and the thousands of customers you have to make good and the hundreds or thousands of them you are going to lose anyway because of it... or the risk of losing your 50K of stock because the state made it illegal... or your legal fees because *that* woman blew herself up plugging her passthrough into the wall when her battery ran out and then sued you.

Alright Alright Alright Agreed you got me

 

[redrhino]

Redrhino,

I think Quick1 put it pretty well.

If you don't want to pay a certain price for an item... don't buy it.

If you can get it cheaper somewhere else (same product, same quality), then you would be a fool not to buy it there.

If you don't want to buy an item that doesn't have a warranty.... don't buy it.

But don't knowingly buy an item for a certain price without a warranty... and then ..... about the price or the lack of warranty!

The decision is yours to make.. and if you don't like the decision, it is the idiot in the mirror that is to blame.

Damn why is it? i can never win one......Damn Damn Damn.... Love the bottom quote though Scott

 

[grimmer255]

with Nhalors LR atties i was getting two days with each attie then poof... I went through three of them in a week. 36 bucks down the drain. I think he needs to lower his prices. I mean seriously 12 bucks for an attie that only last at the most a week. They should be at most 8 bucks. And because of this I wont shop there any longer....

 

[Scottbee]

with Nhalors LR atties i was getting two days with each attie then poof... I went through three of them in a week. 36 bucks down the drain. I think he needs to lower his prices. I mean seriously 12 bucks for an attie that only last at the most a week. They should be at most 8 bucks. And because of this I wont shop there any longer....

While I can appreciate what is perhaps your frustration with the lifespan of your atties.... the effective useful life doesn't enter into the equation for setting a selling price. You can't and shouldn't just "drop the price" because some of your customers aren't getting longevity. That just doesn't make simple business sense.

Economics teaches us that there are some long and interesting equations and formulations that can and should be used for setting selling prices. Parameters include base manufacturing costs, import fees, overhead, labor costs, yield, customs confiscations, perceived value, margin target.. etc.. etc.. Generally speaking "just dropping the retail price because customers don't like how long they last"... isn't one of those parameters!

 

[Scottbee]

So far.. to date.. as of today.. I personally haven't found an atomizer that gives the same (or even close) performance (vapor wise.. not lifespan wise) as the NHaler LR.. at any price. I will continue to look. I've tried some of the $8 dollar atties... and I will try the $3 atties... heck, I'll probably try close to all of them. And to be sure, if I find one that does the "same thing for less", I will buy it. I would be a fool not to.

But for me, for now.. this is the only proven show in town.

 

[Ragamuffin]

I gotta go ahead and voice my .02: I agree with the no warranty thing. Even though I'm just a customer, and a fairly new one, I've been in sales for sooo long that it's easy for me to see why they don't. People will use them incorrectly, and it may not even be their fault that they do. It just happens and can't be warrantied against operator error. And even if they do use it absolutely correctly, it's unpredictable at best. Sort of like why they don't warranty certain car parts, even on new cars. Like brake pads and radio speakers, wipers, headlights, wheel bearings, etc. There just is no way to ensure that these parts will perform even under customer abuse. And most customers are going to push it.

Personally, I love my LR atty's I got from nhaler.com. I ordered three several weeks ago, and am still using my first one, I haven't even cleaned it yet, use it on my 510 all the time, though it's a little weak, and on my DSE 905 with an adapter and it's great. My KR808D-1 broke right after I got it, so we'll see on that one. But I really like it. It seem pretty durable to me, so far. I gotta say that I see a lot of posters telling about how they have "blown" atty's in a short amount of time. And I still don't understand how that happens so often to some people. And it seems to be the same person who says they go through a lot of atty's. Well, maybe they are possibly doing something they shouldn't be? I don't know, but even as a fairly new vaper, I've done a lot of reading (too much!), and since the beginning of March, still have every atty I've gotten, except the one's I've given away. I have 7 atty's that I've been using regularly, only cleaned some of them one time so far, and they still work excellent. Are people running them dry and for too long? Maybe it seems like they should be able to vape for a longer stretch of time between re-filling, so they let them go dry too long, and they blow out. I've even heard a pop or two here and there that told me to refill immediately, and no problems. I just can't figure out how so many people go through so many atty's. I'm a chain vaper still, and I haven't lost any so far. Maybe it's just me....I've been vaping the heck out of my first LR atty and not even cleaned it yet, for several weeks now, and it just keeps getting better. I did buy some vodka today on the way home to clean some this weekend. Not sure of the mix though....

 

[markarich159]

Where I do think you're wrong is in the windfall profits that you assume are being reaped

Apparently, you've never got your hands on a Joyetech wholesale price list. I would post it here, but I'm sure that would immediately get me in hot water. People say the Oil companies are making windfall profits at an 8% margin; wow, they better never get a look the e-cig market margins.(yes, obviously, the oil companies deal with a tremendously larger volume, but I used them to illustrate a point). Even with all the previous "downfalls & problems" of the distribution side of the ecig industry you just mentioned(with the exception of product liabilty- every business should have product liabilty insurance, to not do so is just irresponsible and you deserve to lose your shirt if someone is injured by a product you sell); the margins still assure a very, very tidy profit.
I still vape and will continue to do so even with the knowledge of supplier margins for 2 reasons. #1. Tax on analogs still keeps them way above e-cigs pricewise. #2. the assumed obvious health benefits.

Hopefully, as the industry continues to develop technologically & the Stateside legality issue comes to fruition(fingers crossed, on our side), the availabilty of superior quality products will increase and price will drop commensurately.

 

[Quick1]

Apparently, you've never got your hands on a Joyetech wholesale price list. I would post it here, but I'm sure that would immediately get me in hot water. People say the Oil companies are making windfall profits at an 8% margin; wow, they better never get a look the e-cig market margins.(yes, obviously, the oil companies deal with a tremendously larger volume, but I used them to illustrate a point). Even with all the previous "downfalls & problems" of the distribution side of the ecig industry you just mentioned(with the exception of product liabilty- every business should have product liabilty insurance, to not do so is just irresponsible and you deserve to lose your shirt if someone is injured by a product you sell); the margins still assure a very, very tidy profit.

I think you are way underselling the overhead. What does product liability insurance cost? I'm guessing it's not anywhere in reach of the great majority of our suppliers. So let's just assume they don't have that cost. Then there is the value of your time, all that packaging, shipping and order processing. packaging materials, branding, literature, web hosting, contracted billing system, credit card transaction fees (what are those now? used to be something like 2% to 8%?). Then there is the opportunity cost of the funds you have tied up in stock. These orders are not drop shipped directly from the manufacturer so you probably have to maintain some sort of warehouse facility (even if it's your 2 car garage or basement), 800 number, customer support time, advertising budget like the ECF supplier fees, etc. etc.

Then we get back to the risk. You have all this outlay and you're dealing with a risky supply line (and from what I've seen) very poor quality control on the product.

If you're selling items that cost $10 and under I don't care if your cost is close to zero. You HAVE to turn volume to make it. I have a day job. I haven't even considered becoming an e-cig supplier.

 

[Quick1]

Let's say it is a healthy profit. Begs the question: What are the barriers to entry? Otherwise every college kid would be running an ecig store out of their dorm room.

 

[mistinthewoods]

My $.02. There are lots of suppliers who show concern about their customer's satisfaction. In my experience Drew and Aisa don't. They showed me absolutely no respect when I tried to deal with them so I won't anymore. I don't care what they're selling. I think they write they're own rave reviews about their "great service" in their suppliers forum, or pay their buddys to "cause in other threads all I see are people having the same experience as I had with them.

 

[jcamacho]

The Nhaler LR atties work very well, more expensive but thats how it usually goes.

 

[markarich159]

I think you are way underselling the overhead.

What overhead? A basic web-based business requires the least amount of overhead of ANY business in the USA /world(I don't think anyone can argue against that). That's why everyone and their brother is doing it(in a multitude of venues). There are no brick and mortar leasing/rental fees, no wharehousing fees(the stock required to carry is so small you can keep it in your basement/garage/apartment). On top of that, specific to the e-cig industry, there are(except in, I believe, 2 States) no regulation to speak of, therefore, no costs associated with fed, state, local oversite(except collection of state tax for in-state sales). Other then the actual WEB fees(online Credit/Debit processing-which all business's have and usually also have in-house CC transacting fees, cost of maintaining web site, IT cost & shipping costs-which are usually paid for by the consumer). They usually have no employee's so NO payroll OR, more importantly, payroll tax(which business's have to match on Fed, Medicare and FICA).

Product Liabilty insurance SHOULD be and IS a legitimate expense in ALL other buisiness's, except this one.(My & my partners business carries a 1 million per incident policy as well as a $35,000 employee fidelity bond-we would be stupid not to). We have rent, local business licensing, state licensing, payroll, Professional memebership fees, Workman's comp insurance premiums, Federal, local and State business tax, our IT and web based fees, our web based and in house ACH and Credit/debit card processing fees, Banking fees, Marketing and advertising expenses, etc, etc, etc... along with our day to day expenses of doing business. I could go on and on. A small, in-home web based business has none of these expenses.

On top of that, if a home based web business sets themselves up correctly, it can easily write-off a large majority of these minimal fees without paying an accountant.

Believe me , I'm in no way underselling the overhead. If there's one thing I've learned in being a partner in a business, it's overhead.

P.S. sorry for partially derailing this thread, now back to the regularly scheduled thread.