Nic and B12

[EynaraWolf]

B12 Deficiency is usually dietary at the root. That doesn't mean vaping can't contribute or exacerbate the symptoms, but you might want to check out what types of foods will give you B12 naturally.

B12 Sources

 

[shanagan]

She could be 5 people taking shifts, who knows? I think it is strange that someone who seems so concerned that vaping is harmful continues to vape.

I'm 100% concerned about the ingredients that go into the liquid, as I suspect most people are, and have eliminated those substances that concern me, to the best of my ability. I'm more intrigued (and worried and annoyed about my health) about the mystery paresthesia (mine is not neuropathy). Since pernicious anemia isn't the cause of my b12 deficiency, diet isn't the cause, and I've shown no symptoms of low b12 ever - nicotine, brought up my by doctor (if you'd like PM me and I'll give you his name and number so you can call him to prove to yourself I am not a "plant") seems a likely suspect.

As for why I continue to vape - it's a good question, really. I wish I could just quit.

eta: As I sit here drinking my coffee with sweet & low (saccharin) and ponder making ramen for breakfast (I believe lowcarb is healthier than a traditional diet) it occurs to me that there're many things that "concern" me that I don't quit. Imagine that, I'm not perfect after all. What will I tell my kids now? lol

 

[shanagan]

B12 Deficiency is usually dietary at the root. That doesn't mean vaping can't contribute or exacerbate the symptoms, but you might want to check out what types of foods will give you B12 naturally.

B12 Sources

According to my doctor, diet-related b12 deficiency is extremely rare except for in vegans or malnourished children/infants.

 

[shanagan]

People should be able to post about health issues without fear of condemnation. Somebody somewhere will be harmed by vaping, and with enough people doing it, that somebody will have several companions. This is simply statistics, there has to be a percentage of people who cannot tolerate the chronic inhalation even of relatively harmless materials. It's just statistics.

If 450,000 smokers a year die from tobacco-smoking related disease in the US, then if all tobacco smokers (thought to be about 20 million plus) changed to an electronic cigarette, there would still be some deaths. 1% of the tobacco deathrate = 4,500; 0.1% = 450; 0.01% = 45. Choose your number - but it is unlikely to be less than 45 and most would say more.

So some people will be harmed as a result, as that's just the way it is. It would be useful to know the exact mechanisms by which those (probably few) people will be harmed, so why not let those who believe they have a concern, air it. Also, if 45 people die, hundreds will be ill, which perhaps makes the causes of more concern to most people.

In the particular case given in this post, it does look as if the subject bears further investigation. Nicotine and the B vitamin group may be linked in several ways. Coincidences happen of course, and the two similar-looking cases at this particular doctor's surgery look interesting.

But, realistically, someone starting to vape on a Friday, causing them to present with a chronic disease linked to long-term vitamin deficiency on the Monday, would not on the face of it seem possible. It would seem difficult to achieve this within a month even if the patient drank a gallon of distilled water per day while eating a diet totally missing the required vitamin and was given drugs to stop auto-creation of the vitamin.

Issues faced by persons naturally predisposed to a deficiency and its consequences, and for those already suffering from the results of a deficiency, are another matter entirely. That, we should consider carefully. It may be that some persons with a potential vitamin deficiency should take this matter more seriously. And for that reason, we ought to welcome contributions of this sort.

It's true that many health issues brought up here are simply the result of a coincidence of timing or something similar. But the statistics hint that some people ought to take these issues seriously, so we should not dismiss all reports out of hand.

Additionally, it might help someone down the line to help direct their healthcare. I happened to have a weird set of symptoms that led me to be tested for a BUNCH of stuff - including the b12 deficiency. I still don't know if it's the ultimate culprit yet in my case, but it would seem that there may - just MAY - be enough of a link to some pretty common "symptoms" people bring to the boards (ie, mouth ulcers, bleeding gums, shortness of breath, etc) that they might want to have a blood test done. Whether related or not, before yesterday I never knew that nicotine could be a factor in b12 absorption. So maybe I wasn't the only one that didn't know it.

 

[kpax]

Shanagan,

Sorry you are having these problems. I agree that the Bells Palsy showing up within days sounds unlikely....however it COULD if it was caused from heavy metal poisoning.

That is something not brought up here a lot as ONE poster back in 2009 tested HIS equipment and didn't find lead. (It wouldn't even need to be lead; heavy metals can be found in pesticides and cheap nic is used as that) Regardless no one is talking about the possiblity of these cheap atomizers and cartomizers giving off metal poisoning. You may want to check symptoms, but they cause a LOT of the things mentioned on this board. I may post more later but I have to go to work.

Health Conditions where heavy metals may be a factor: This is a partial list as well because there are so many conditions where metal accumulation in the body can be an important link. A few .... Autism, Arthritis, MS, Diverticulitis, Bell's Palsy, Crohn's and Graves Disease, Cancer, Thyroid Problems, Female Problems with uterus, menustration or cervical health

Heavy Metals Toxicity Sypmtoms

http://healthmad.com/conditions-and-diseases/how-to-identify-heavy-metal-poisoning/ (mentions pesticides - there are a ton of these articles on the net)

b12 deficiency linked to heavy metals

Vitamin B12 deficiency is caused by a wide range of factors including low gastric acidity (common in older people,) use of acid blockers or excessive laxative use, lack of intrinsic factor, poor absorption from the intestines, lack of Calcium, heavy metal toxicity, or excessive Vitamin B12 degradation. If you are anemic, elderly, have digestive disorders, or vegetarian you may have an immediate need for supplemental Vitamin B12

http://www.liquidb12.net/vitamin-b12-shots-benefits/

 

[scinsc]

Thanks for posting your experience! Did your doctor ever suggest nicotine as one of the possible causes, or do you have pernicious anemia? (My hemoglobin levels are normal, as is my sedimentation rate so I think we've ruled out PA in my case.) For someone who hadn't been to a doctor in years, all of this is kind of making my head spin, but at the same time, it would seem that some people should be happy I can't type for **** and have been busy googling my OWN stuff, not stuff related to toxic flavorings.

While my doctors did not specify nicotine they all said smoking was a strong possibility for my problems and they are happy I quit. I am getting a mixed bag from them about vaping. I will say that I have gotten better in spite of vaping and I think the benefits of not smoking have helped my overall well being.
No I do not have pernicious anemia. B12 seems to be the culprit and I am improving with just the shots. The doctors did tell me that it would take a very long time to get back to normal, if at all. I am optimistic.
I do hope you can get to the bottom of your problem and if there is ever anything I can do to help let me know.

 

[evnan111]

MYSTERY PARAESTESIA. nurse here. sometimes when someone is stressed out they tend to shallow breathe/hyperventilate. Shallow breathing causes PH of blood to become too acidic. That causes paresthesia to lower extremities, hands, face, lips, etc., a tingling, even spiders crawling on you legs kind of feeling according to patients. -When your stressed...(Shallow breathing.)

B12 deficiency is/can be age-related. I give injections for that frequently. Stop worrying your not dying. And don't pay attention to your breathing you will only make it worse. Your nervous system does not need help it's been doing that your whole life. But. To r/o paresthesia from stress or shallow breathing. Try using a paper bag and breathe into it for a couple of minutes. Your PH changes quickly and your tingling symptoms should abate or atleast all but disappear.

If your tests are all negative... Start exercising. It would reliever stress, SOB from smoking. And if a B12 test is positive. So be it. Your on a monthly med for it.

Alot of problems, diabetes/htn included can be helped with loss of weight with exercise. Dieting is just a venue for most people to play mind games with themselves. Exercise increases quality of life. Good luck and stop worrying. The above info is good advice through experience. If your stressed out because of worry over your health exercise is your panacea.

Stress related symptoms are a vicious cycle. You try to explain all these symptoms. Making the stress factor higher, hence more symptoms.

 

[shanagan]

Thanks SC & Evnan!

 

[silkakc]

I'm B12 deficient and was diagnosed a year ago- long before I started vaping.

One of the main causes of B12 deficiency is antacids- either prescription or non prescription- Tums, Rolaids, Maalox, Prevacid, Prilosec, Zantac, etc.... Another cause of B12 deficiency is coffee consumption. The more coffee/caffeine you take in, the lower your B12 levels will be. I read that another cause of B12 deficiency is alcoholism. That depletes it too.

And Shanagan,
It worries me that you think 90/60 blood pressure is healthy. It is NOT. Please have them test your "Aldosterone" and "Cortisol" levels. I have an adrenal gland problem and have to take meds for those hormones so that my blood pressure is above 100. It's dangerous to be at 90/60- you are too dang close to going into shock at that number. Any little thing can send that 90/60 lower and then shock ensues- things like running to your car without your coat on or getting an illness or slamming on your car brakes to avoid a critter. Even sitting in an air conditioned theater in the summer caused me to start to shake and go into shock You need to be at 100 so that your body can accommodate stresses. Since I started my meds, I havent gone into shock once and I'm at 100/70 now!

So if you are running at 90/60- please have them test you for Addison's disease. If you have a blood pressure cuff at home, you can do a unprofessional self test. Take your BP laying down. Wait 2 minutes and then stand up and take it again. If you have Addisons, the BP drops considerably when you stand up. If it goes up- that's good and your adrenals are performing fine

Good luck to you,
Lori

 

[evnan111]

You should be glad to have 90/60 BP for the rest of your life Shana. Doctors say if your nonsymptomatic...Leave it alone. I was 90/60 most of my 20 and 30's and they used to tell me at 18 if your not fainting (nonsymptomatic) - don't worry about it. Truly, 90/60 is a good thing as Martha Stewart says.. lol. Anyway this is ECF.

 

[shanagan]

Thanks, y'all - yeah, I love my BP - that part's all good, asymptomatic all the way. Lori, I'm one of the lucky ones in re: my BP.

So, now the bad news. This could and probably IS completely unrelated to vaping, but I said I'd follow up and here I am. All of our armchair diagnoses were off the mark. I've been getting my b12 shots, but in the meantime have been diagnosed with a rare neurological disease/disorder called Transverse Myelitis. Basically, myelin is a protective coating on your spinal cord, and my immune system has decided to attack that myelin, causing nerve damage from a lesion on my spinal cord right behind my jawline. It may or may not be related to the B12 deficiency. B12 def. has been shown as a possible cause of the "attack."

The good news is that I am so damned lucky it's scary. I could be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life, but instead I have numb/tingly hands. So, so lucky. There's no telling if this will ever get better (or if I'll ever be able to type right again!), but you know, not everyone gets to have MRIs and spinal taps and rare diseases.

So, there's the update, for whatever that's worth. Also fwiw, TM can be caused by anything from MS (we're doing more testing to rule that out) to any type of environmental factor you can imagine. A virus, a vaccine, an exposure to a fungus... anything.

 

[Seabrook]

Thanks for your update WRT to your medical issue, Shan. Wishing you a speedy recovery following a desirable solution.

 

[scinsc]

Thanks, y'all - yeah, I love my BP - that part's all good, asymptomatic all the way. Lori, I'm one of the lucky ones in re: my BP.

So, now the bad news. This could and probably IS completely unrelated to vaping, but I said I'd follow up and here I am. All of our armchair diagnoses were off the mark. I've been getting my b12 shots, but in the meantime have been diagnosed with a rare neurological disease/disorder called Transverse Myelitis. Basically, myelin is a protective coating on your spinal cord, and my immune system has decided to attack that myelin, causing nerve damage from a lesion on my spinal cord right behind my jawline. It may or may not be related to the B12 deficiency. B12 def. has been shown as a possible cause of the "attack."

The good news is that I am so damned lucky it's scary. I could be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life, but instead I have numb/tingly hands. So, so lucky. There's no telling if this will ever get better (or if I'll ever be able to type right again!), but you know, not everyone gets to have MRIs and spinal taps and rare diseases.

So, there's the update, for whatever that's worth. Also fwiw, TM can be caused by anything from MS (we're doing more testing to rule that out) to any type of environmental factor you can imagine. A virus, a vaccine, an exposure to a fungus... anything.

Hi Shanagan,
Sorry to see you've got Transverse Myelitis. The silver lining is that at least you have been diagnosed so at least some of the stress is lifted. I'm not sure you have tried this but my hands are helped a good bit by using a grip strength exerciser. A Company named “Everlast” makes it. Real hard to use at first but it paid off for me. I still have numbness in my hands but now I can button my shirt.

Amazon.com: Everlast Hand & Finger Strengthener: Sports & Outdoors

 

[shanagan]

Thanks, as always, for the support! This has been trying, to say the least.

In most cases it's a one-off deal, so the lesion (heretofore known as The Thing) should have done its damage and I will follow a 1/3rd rule - 1/3d show some improvement, some none, and some completely recover. We're treating a still-inflamed area with some heavy duty hour long courses of IV steroids this week, and I'm really hoping it takes care of that inflammation and in a while this will just be a "wtf, that was so crazy!" thing and be done with it. I've already had significant improvement (it's just in my hands and arms now, instead of everywhere neck-down) so I'm putting my chips on full recovery.

But the next steps will definitely include physical therapy if the steroids don't do the trick, just to keep from losing any more function. We got around to the steroids late in the game (I can tell my neurologist is concerned about this, but with the holidays there just wasn't any way to do anything faster - everyone's offices were closed or full, then I couldn't do the mri the first time around - why, hello, claustrophobia! er, nice to meet you? - but the fact that there IS still an inflamed area gives me some hope. But seriously, I can't stress enough how lucky I am to have such minor symptoms, based on where The Thing lies it really could've been life-changing. I also have zero pain, which is another major blessing.

Oh, and of course still getting my b12 shots - who knew how crucial this stuff was? lol I'm so glad you're getting some relief, SC. It's such a hard thing to explain, how not being able to "feel" or process what you feel correctly can be such a complete mind-screw.

In interesting news, I emailed the head of a study at Johns Hopkins TM center to see if I'd be a good candidate for their study on risk factors and heard back from him almost immediately that I should be a "go." So that's interesting, and I'm hopeful that my experience helps contribute somehow.

 

[shanagan]

Just a quick update: We'll never know if the low b12 OR the transverse myelitis was vape-related, I guess. But my neurologist is sure that the lesion isn't b12-induced. I guess b12 lesions tend to be longer, mine is round. And so much for full recovery. My hands and arms are still tingly and occasionally numb. Better than paralyzed, though. Unfortunately I am no longer vaping. I vaped for two days about a month ago and had a pretty significant relapse, so that was that. It is probably NOT related, but fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame and me, and all that.

 

[scinsc]

Just a quick update: We'll never know if the low b12 OR the transverse myelitis was vape-related, I guess. But my neurologist is sure that the lesion isn't b12-induced. I guess b12 lesions tend to be longer, mine is round. And so much for full recovery. My hands and arms are still tingly and occasionally numb. Better than paralyzed, though. Unfortunately I am no longer vaping. I vaped for two days about a month ago and had a pretty significant relapse, so that was that. It is probably NOT related, but fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame and me, and all that.

I'm happy that you seem to be getting along a little better. I was doing better until the cold weather hit and everything went south but now that Spring is here I'm hoping thinks will turn around.

 

[shanagan]

SC, I just read about "pseudo relapses" - Brain & Spine Foundation - Relapses - I've printed that out to give to my doctors. Very interesting.

 

[jamie]

Shanagan, thank you very much for your detailed posting on this and most of all, your reasonable approach and numerous follow-up reports. I'm sure you'll do everything you can in understanding and managing your illness and I wish you all the best.

 

[shanagan]

Thanks, Jamie.

 

[Seabrook]

It's good to hear from you again, Shan. Thanks for your consideration in the update. I've thought about you several times.