Nicotine Aborbtion and toxicity vs. analogs

[BigBulli]

http://www.electroniccigaretteban.org/PDF/Dublin-Benchtop-E-cigarette-report.pdf

I recently came across this very interesting pdf that compares the amount of nicotine absorbed from vapor vs. smoke and the toxins found in each read the second page it states that less nicotine is absorbed vaping and that you would need to take 6 puffs every 5 min to get the same nicotine as one cig an hour which i feel is true since i'm constantly vaping vs when i smoked it was about 1 cig an hour. I'm going to bump up my mix level to 50 mg from 3.6% nicotine and see how much of a difference it makes possibly going as high as 10% nicotine if i feel comfortable after gradual increases. I would like to be able to vape for 5 min and feel as i did when i smoked.

sucks this valuable info has to posted be in the new member forum esp. since i mix and sell liquid i'll be able to do this easily

 

[SonnyCrack]

That info has been posted numerous times and newer studies suggest far more nicotine than that.. If you want to do 50 mg, do so at your own risk.

BTW.. I was smoking 3 cigs an hour (Full flavor 100's) for years.. Sometimes 4-5.. And although it seems like I'm vaping more.. I doubt it puff for puff...

The advantage of e-cigs is you can take a puff here and there.. A consistent nicotine stream, so you never feel a "need" for a cigarette...

 

[WomanOfHeart]

I, for one, wouldn't recommend vaping 50mg of nicotine. If you need to vape 36mg more often, then so be it. The risk is too high when you start talking about 50mg.

 

[swedishfish]

As far as how much nicotine we're getting- here's a recent post about it.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-laugesen-how-much-nicotine-do-we-absorb.html

If 36 isn't doing it for you, I'd look around at different pvs. Possibly look into snus. There's a section of the board that talks about this. There other things in cigs besides nicotine that people become addicted to.

Good luck!

 

[Astatine]

OK. I took a look and to me there are sooo many pieces of information missing, that this study is ...useless

 

[Mickster]

OMG- I read the name of your post as Nicotine ABORTION...and I was prepared to yell at you about upping your mg's . I started with 16 when I quit and have worked my way down to 12 and my next step is 8.

 

[MickeyRat]

I'm going to bump up my mix level to 50 mg from 3.6% nicotine and see how much of a difference it makes possibly going as high as 10% nicotine if i feel comfortable after gradual increases. I would like to be able to vape for 5 min and feel as i did when i smoked.

Ummm be sure to have the ambulance waiting. That's an insanely high dose. Do you realize that at 10% (100mg) nicotine is toxic absorbed through the skin? You might as well drink Draino.

There's a reason nobody sells juice higher than 36 mg for vaping. There are a lot of other ingredients in cigarettes that work with nicotine to provide that faster longer satisfaction.

It would be a lot safer to go back to smoking than to do what you have in mind.

 

[CBB]

I agree with my previous counterparts, if you are not getting the satisfaction you need try LR attys or higher voltage mods and different flavors and pg/vg ratios, its unlikely that it is the nicotine you are not getting enough of, as much as its another sensation you are missing. A hotter vape or more vapor or different flavor may suit you better.

 

[Wolfstar]

Everything I've read so far (haven't gotten to everything yet!) indicates that yes, we do get less nicotine by vaping than we did with cigarettes...however when you smoke a whole cigarette, you get the full amount of nicotine that's in the cigarette. But you get that same amount every time you smoke, whether you need that much or not. When you vape, you get as much (or vape as much nicotine) as you NEED.

You don't indicate what level of nicotine you're currently vaping, but I assume it's at least the max we can get from suppliers (36 mg), so with that assumption I would say that you're not feeling enough satisfaction from vaping. If this IS the case, it may be that you also need to include some of the tobacco alkaloids, that we used to get in cigarettes.

You can get these alkaloids by using snus from Sweden (from Sweden, as they have very strict regulations on their tobacco products and have developed a way to process the tobacco to remove the carcinogens, which the US snus still has). Since part of the reason (small part perhaps) we choose to vape instead is to cut out the carcinogens, and other nasty chemicals that are in cigarettes. It may well be that instead of needing to up your nicotine levels to possibly dangerous levels, you may find that just using snus once a day or once a week, or just whenever you feel like you need something "more".

I am in that situation myself. Vaping alone works fine for few days, but I've found that I still need a cigarette first thing in the morning and after meals. It's just not enough for me. So I have been experimenting with some US snus "pillows" while I wait for an order of snus from Sweden to arrive. I'm not too thrilled to have to keep using tobacco products, but I'm hoping that if I CAN kick the cigarettes by using both, then I should be able to wean myself off the snus gradually, as I plan to do with the nicotine once I can get more comfortable with it.

It IS an option, and I'd really hope that you might look into the alkaloid issue others have posted in ECF. (search alkaloids) Of course, whatever you do decide to do is fine, it is your choice. But I hope you'll explore other options first, before upping your nic levels that high. Not worth getting nicotine poisening, as it's not a happy thing.

 

[kabonk]

when I first started I ordered 48mg carto from china I figured because I smoked about two pad of marlboros I needed a lot of nic for e-cigs to work I was wrong it was to much

 

[MickeyRat]

Wolfstar has a good point and I should have thought of it. We are all PV fans but, it doesn't work for everybody. You might want to browse the Other Alternatives to Smoking forum. Please don't go over 36mg.

 

[Andyhrn]

"Nicotine Absorption and toxicity vs. analogs"
The didn't test for absorption just for nicotine contents and toxicology. According to this (and others studies) there is not enough nicotine concentration in the puff to absorb. E-cigarette does not delivery any significant amount of nicotine in to the body by design. It's just a nicotine placebo to fix an oral fixation (adult toy).
This why ppl are always asking for e-juice with a "real analog taste" because it will tricked them to think they are getting the nicotine too with it but in reality they are not.

 

[DC2]

Wolfstar has a good point and I should have thought of it. We are all PV fans but, it doesn't work for everybody. You might want to browse the Other Alternatives to Smoking forum. Please don't go over 36mg.

Here is another really good threat on the subject...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...187431-so-whats-verdict-wtas-e-juice-not.html

 

[MickeyRat]

"Nicotine Absorption and toxicity vs. analogs"
The didn't test for absorption just for nicotine contents and toxicology. According to this (and others studies) there is not enough nicotine concentration in the puff to absorb. E-cigarette does not delivery any significant amount of nicotine in to the body by design. It's just a nicotine placebo to fix an oral fixation (adult toy).
This why ppl are always asking for e-juice with a "real analog taste" because it will tricked them to think they are getting the nicotine too with it but in reality they are not.

Ummm not really. For one thing I can tell you I did get too much nic several times when I first started out. It's not pleasant. There have been other studies that reached different conclusions.

It's long but, there's a very good discussion and several links in this thread.

I can promise you this, I'll bet my paycheck that in a double blind test, I'll be able to tell the difference between different nic levels.

 

[DC2]

"Nicotine Absorption and toxicity vs. analogs"
The didn't test for absorption just for nicotine contents and toxicology. According to this (and others studies) there is not enough nicotine concentration in the puff to absorb. E-cigarette does not delivery any significant amount of nicotine in to the body by design. It's just a nicotine placebo to fix an oral fixation (adult toy).
This why ppl are always asking for e-juice with a "real analog taste" because it will tricked them to think they are getting the nicotine too with it but in reality they are not.

It depends...

If you look at studies like the one Dr. Eissenberg did awhile back, yeah, some people are getting little or no nicotine.
And those people would be first time users who have underpowered devices that they are using incorrectly.

If you look at the current studies Dr. Eissenberg is doing, the conclusions are very different.
People with quality devices that know how to vape are getting plenty of nicotine.

 

[Andyhrn]

I can promise you this, I'll bet my paycheck ...

Are you on government assistance?

 

[MickeyRat]

Are you on government assistance?

If I was, I couldn't afford to bet it.

 

[Astatine]

I hope to dissuade you from doing something that might be dangerous...

Fact (which is mis-represented in this PDF file) mist particles from vaping are much larger than smoke particles. This is well established in engineering, toxicology, pharmacology...and whatever. For example: Particle Sizes

Imagine that you have a beach ball covered with 1 mg of nicotine and a tennis ball (I exaggerate to get the point across) also covered with 1 mg of nicotine. The goal of this little game is to wipe as much surface of the ball as possible with your hand within 5 seconds. How much nicotine will you wipe off the beach ball compared to the tennis ball? Lot less I bet! At this point, increasing the nicotine concentration SEEMS to make sense. because if the beach ball is covered with more nic, you will wipe more of it within the 5 seconds.

Where this line of thought falls apart is that my little game has another rule: once you start wiping the ball, you cannot stop (ie. When the nicotine is in your lungs you can't get it back). As a result, from the tennis ball, you will get the 1 mg of nicotine very quickly and then you will start eliminating it and you can do it again. But if you feel sick, you CAN STOP. From the Beach ball, you will have a lower amount of nicotine at any given time, but for longer (takes you longer to wipe the whole ball). If you double the nic on the ball, you will have absorbed your 1 mg real fast, just as you would when you smoke. BUT you will not be able to stop there. If your body cannot eliminate fast enough what has been absorbed the effective concentration in your blood stream is just going up,up,up...and it's a good way to OD!

Hope that I am of some help to explain why you need 3 "small" vapes within an hour to equal one smoke within an hour...and why it's not a good idea to increase the nic concentration in the juice all at once. Baby steps are better

 

[MickeyRat]

That actually describes what I experienced starting out. I had a real problem getting my nic level right. I went for a week at 24mg then it had me bouncing off walls. I suspect I had been unconsciously adjusting the way I vaped for that week. The thing is that once I started having an adverse reaction, it took a good 2 hours for it to subside. It was an unpleasant 2 hours.

 

[hbpersians]

I think a lot of it is in our head as we start out. It's been two weeks for me, and I am looking for excuses to relapse! I know that is my addict nature though. I will vape till I'm about sick at those moments and the last thing I want is an analog. I hope it gets easier over time.