that's why I vape 3ml of 24mg a day. I not getting as much as I thought I was....er...I think....right?
This is a very psychological thing.
This is a very psychological thing.
Nicotine absorbtion from vaping research
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Pulling information from both Atre and Health NZ, this is what I've come up with. Would this make sense?
The nicotine is absorbed at a slower rate, but is being metabolized more quickly, which would explain why we have to vape so much to get high levels in our blood.
Nicotine is increasing the production of dopamine, but without the MAOI's found in cigarettes the dopamine is degrading at a normal rate rather than slowing down.
From this point, 3 things can happen:
1) The production of dopamine would produce a buzz or "high", but it would be delayed because it would take longer for the dopamine to build to noticeable levels.
2) Nicotine levels fall and dopamine production declines before the noticeable buzz.
3) Nicotine levels stay high, but the individual's dopamine production cannot overcome degradation without the assistance of the MAOI's found in cigarettes
The third would explain why some of us cannot get a buzz regardless of the nic content, but could with cigarettes.
Call me out if I'm wrong!
The nicotine is absorbed at a slower rate, but is being metabolized more quickly, which would explain why we have to vape so much to get high levels in our blood.
Nicotine is increasing the production of dopamine, but without the MAOI's found in cigarettes the dopamine is degrading at a normal rate rather than slowing down.
From this point, 3 things can happen:
1) The production of dopamine would produce a buzz or "high", but it would be delayed because it would take longer for the dopamine to build to noticeable levels.
2) Nicotine levels fall and dopamine production declines before the noticeable buzz.
3) Nicotine levels stay high, but the individual's dopamine production cannot overcome degradation without the assistance of the MAOI's found in cigarettes
The third would explain why some of us cannot get a buzz regardless of the nic content, but could with cigarettes.
Call me out if I'm wrong!
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Weird. I pull 4-6 times on my 510 and I feel like I've had the equivalent of 2 smokes.
I would be pleased to discover I was actually getting less though, but I doubt it.
I would be pleased to discover I was actually getting less though, but I doubt it.
I just wanted to add this to the mix: For whatever reason, I get a high from vaping - but I *never* got it from smoking. The only "feeling" I ever got from smoking is lightheadedness when I would go without for a day or to and then smoke the first cig. With vaping I actually get a sense of well-being and satisfaction, and, well, a buzz. This is with higher nic levels, of course...
And I *still* crave analogs for some reason. I don't get it.
Briar.
And I *still* crave analogs for some reason. I don't get it.
Briar.
I read in a different post that research shows that a majority of smokers have a secret desire to quit. It went on to posit that the e-cig gives hand-mouth action, "smoke" in and out and just enough nicotine for them to transition from analogues and survive the withdrawal symptoms. I know that I had gone up to two cigarettes in a row, still at a pack a day. 15 minutes after the maillady delivered my 510 I was done with analogs.
I was vaping almost constantly the first three days. Now, however, I have found myself vaping a little less every day. I have actually gone through 7 pre-filled carts and 5 3ml sample bottles of 11-16mg in 10 days.
I was vaping almost constantly the first three days. Now, however, I have found myself vaping a little less every day. I have actually gone through 7 pre-filled carts and 5 3ml sample bottles of 11-16mg in 10 days.
Jfwreench: You're on target. But we get much, much less nicotine per puff with e-smoking, no matter the nicotine strength (I've done 48mg liquid straight without equaling a single hit from a cigarette). Lung absorption is good, but there's no kick for many e-smokers, myself included. The MAOI problem might be the answer.
Bottom line: E-smoking does not duplicate cigarette smoking, but replication is good enough for many. If it works for you, do it. If it doesn't, find something else.
Bottom line: E-smoking does not duplicate cigarette smoking, but replication is good enough for many. If it works for you, do it. If it doesn't, find something else.
So, theoretically, is one is on a certain kinds of anti-depressant, the effect of an e-cig is better? Has anyone tested that? I mean, there's got to be someone on these lists who is on MAOIs, no? Just curious.
Cheers,
Briar.
I enjoy your posts Bob
I'd imagine this has been covered before, but wouldn't the e-cig in use have a direct effect on the amount of nicotine? In an analog most of the nicotine is destroyed in the burning process. So in a hotter atomizer (mods, 510s, etc..) is it possible nicotine is being destroyed?
This has crossed my mind often in the last month or so, but I always forget to ask when I'm on the forums. A friend of mine switched from the 510 to the 901 and claimed he can't vape as much, and it reminded me to ask!
So just how much dopamine or other MAOI's are we thinking are added
to cigarette tobacco, presumably this is a deliberate part of the formulation?
Is this really the most likely cause of ciggies being more 'satisfying',
or only a small part of the complex equation?
to cigarette tobacco, presumably this is a deliberate part of the formulation?
Is this really the most likely cause of ciggies being more 'satisfying',
or only a small part of the complex equation?
Hi Sun Vaporer,
thanks for the (probably undeserved) ego boost,
suspect I wasn't missed that much
Couldn't resist the '75mg liquid' thread, having had a shot at vaping different types of the 'strong stuff'.
thanks for the (probably undeserved) ego boost,
suspect I wasn't missed that much
Couldn't resist the '75mg liquid' thread, having had a shot at vaping different types of the 'strong stuff'.
From what I can gather online, MAOIs are simply a byproduct of tobacco smoking:
Human monoamine oxidase is inhibited by tobacco smoke: beta-carboline alkaloids act as potent and reversible inhibitors
by
Herraiz T, Chaparro C.
Spanish Council for Scientific Research, CSIC,
Instituto de Fermentaciones Industriales,
Juan de la Cierva, 3,
28006, Madrid, Spain.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2005 Jan 14;326(2):378-86
ABSTRACT
Monoamine oxidase (MAO) is a mitochondrial outer-membrane flavoenzyme involved in brain and peripheral oxidative catabolism of neurotransmitters and xenobiotic amines, including neurotoxic amines, and a well-known target for antidepressant and neuroprotective drugs. Recently, positron emission tomography imaging has shown that smokers have a much lower activity of peripheral and brain MAO-A (30%) and -B (40%) isozymes compared to non-smokers. This MAO inhibition results from a pharmacological effect of smoke, but little is known about its mechanism. Working with mainstream smoke collected from commercial cigarettes we confirmed that cigarette smoke is a potent inhibitor of human MAO-A and -B isozymes. MAO inhibition was partly reversible, competitive for MAO-A, and a mixed-type inhibition for MAO-B. Two beta-carboline alkaloids, norharman (beta-carboline) and harman (1-methyl-beta-carboline), were identified by GC-MS, quantified, and isolated from the mainstream smoke by solid phase extraction and HPLC. Kinetics analysis revealed that beta-carbolines from cigarette smoke were competitive, reversible, and potent inhibitors of MAO enzymes. Norharman was an inhibitor of MAO-A (K(i)=1.2+/-0.18muM) and MAO-B (K(i)=1.12+/-0.19muM), and harman of MAO-A (K(i)=55.54+/-5.3nM). beta-Carboline alkaloids are psychopharmacologically active compounds that may occur endogenously in human tissues, including the brain. These results suggest that beta-carboline alkaloids from cigarette smoke acting as potent reversible inhibitors of MAO enzymes may contribute to the MAO-reduced activity produced by tobacco smoke in smokers. The presence of MAO inhibitors in smoke like beta-carbolines and others may help us to understand some of the purported neuropharmacological effects associated with smoking
wtf...swims never heard this before.
Human monoamine oxidase is inhibited by tobacco smoke: beta-carboline alkaloids act as potent and reversible inhibitors
by
Herraiz T, Chaparro C.
Spanish Council for Scientific Research, CSIC,
Instituto de Fermentaciones Industriales,
Juan de la Cierva, 3,
28006, Madrid, Spain.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2005 Jan 14;326(2):378-86
ABSTRACT
Monoamine oxidase (MAO) is a mitochondrial outer-membrane flavoenzyme involved in brain and peripheral oxidative catabolism of neurotransmitters and xenobiotic amines, including neurotoxic amines, and a well-known target for antidepressant and neuroprotective drugs. Recently, positron emission tomography imaging has shown that smokers have a much lower activity of peripheral and brain MAO-A (30%) and -B (40%) isozymes compared to non-smokers. This MAO inhibition results from a pharmacological effect of smoke, but little is known about its mechanism. Working with mainstream smoke collected from commercial cigarettes we confirmed that cigarette smoke is a potent inhibitor of human MAO-A and -B isozymes. MAO inhibition was partly reversible, competitive for MAO-A, and a mixed-type inhibition for MAO-B. Two beta-carboline alkaloids, norharman (beta-carboline) and harman (1-methyl-beta-carboline), were identified by GC-MS, quantified, and isolated from the mainstream smoke by solid phase extraction and HPLC. Kinetics analysis revealed that beta-carbolines from cigarette smoke were competitive, reversible, and potent inhibitors of MAO enzymes. Norharman was an inhibitor of MAO-A (K(i)=1.2+/-0.18muM) and MAO-B (K(i)=1.12+/-0.19muM), and harman of MAO-A (K(i)=55.54+/-5.3nM). beta-Carboline alkaloids are psychopharmacologically active compounds that may occur endogenously in human tissues, including the brain. These results suggest that beta-carboline alkaloids from cigarette smoke acting as potent reversible inhibitors of MAO enzymes may contribute to the MAO-reduced activity produced by tobacco smoke in smokers. The presence of MAO inhibitors in smoke like beta-carbolines and others may help us to understand some of the purported neuropharmacological effects associated with smoking
wtf...swims never heard this before.
I suspect it depends a great deal on the device and how the device is used. Like several others here, the 510 with 24mg fluid often gives me a very noticeable buzz that I hadn't seen for years with the rather high nic. analogs I'd been smoking. The 4081 was a nice vape, but I kept hanging on to the analogs while I was using it, and it just wasn't quite connecting.
I enjoy your posts Bob
I'd imagine this has been covered before, but wouldn't the e-cig in use have a direct effect on the amount of nicotine? In an analog most of the nicotine is destroyed in the burning process. So in a hotter atomizer (mods, 510s, etc..) is it possible nicotine is being destroyed?
This has crossed my mind often in the last month or so, but I always forget to ask when I'm on the forums. A friend of mine switched from the 510 to the 901 and claimed he can't vape as much, and it reminded me to ask!
In a recent post I explained why in fact analogs may give up their nicotine with less loss; the nic vaporises as the fire slowly approaches; it doesn't wait to burn up in the flame! In contrast, in e-cigs some nic may get burnt before it has a chance to vaporise and becomes part of the deposit (it's only my theory, but seems perfectly feasible).
Will look into the inhibitor - dopamine angle as I get time ...
Not much to add apart from this is the best post I have seen yet on nicotine and the rate of absorbsion and why it lacks the buzz of a cigarette. I only use weak juice at about 5mg/ml any more and I need a sit down and get red in the face. The first day of vaping I went shopping and was on a great buzz with a huge sense of inner calm. I know I am getting a good dose of nicotine just not the other side effects of a ciggy. As the buzz is the most addictive part I for one miss it but accept it as a good thing breaking down any addiction is part of the road of understanding it and overcoming it. I am lucky as can start and stop smoking at will with only mild cravings. I know from reading this forum and living with a very heavy smoker I am very lucky. Am I to think as I can start and stop at will and I only need a small amount of nicotine to get buy I ony have a small number of receptors. Great food for thought thankyou
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