Nicotine Comparisons

[aikanae1]

Impressions from others can narrow down what you decide to try for yourself, but, in the end, if you're picky about nic, you have to try it for yourself. I remember seeing posts from at least one person, who came on this thread saying they just tried nic "A" and it was the tops. Then a month later they're back saying brand "B" was the tops and they were going to dump "A" into the sewer because they couldn't stand it. Also, Wizard labs used to be he darling that everyone praised, now it's hardly mentioned. I think the competition improved more so than anything going wrong with Wizard.

I'm not that picky about nic, I've tried a number of brands and never had one that really displeased me badly when fresh. I did have one that went fishy in time, but under less than ideal storage conditions, so I don't bad mouth the vendor. I have developed preferences, especially since going to unflavored and slight menthol, but I wouldn't feel immense deprivation if I couldn't get my preferred brand.

I'm so glad I was able to take part in the blind test that Rossum sponsored. It let me try 3 brands I hadn't had before and compare my impressions to what others thought. Nude came out on top and I agreed, but not by enough of a margin that I felt compelled to dump what I already had and replace it with NN. NN is what I'd suggest to try for a newbie who comes on the forum and doesn't know where to start. Then try other brands based on what they do and don't like about NN. For anyone who thinks NN is too expensive and doesn't mind a little bit of tobacco-ish taste and TH, I recommend VT TH highly. (I was using VT TH from before the taste test).

I like to vape some unflavored and I think that heigthens the senses for flavors in eliquids. It also helps my coils last longer since the vg acts like a cleaner. I also enjoy a wide variety of flavors and the base can either enhance or fight whatever flavors I want to mix. Just changing the base can make a world of difference. I've got a collection of brands right now, many not sampled because I keep finding commercial vendors with something I HAVE to try. I haven't run out yet and I figure my days are numbered for buying it anyway, so might as well enjoy the golden days while I can. Tg nic lasts "forever" when frozen.

Figuring out where a person's preference lies isn't a guarentee, but it's sure helpful when making a bulk purchase for storage reasons. I'm still toying with how to compile data in the most objective way, not good or bad, but with some standardized definitions so others can make some good guesses. It might be a mute issue soon, so we'll see. I was thinking of using google docs but I don't know spreadsheets. I don't know any of it, but I can figure out the doc end.

Nicotine processing has changed. The old preferences are still very common, and needed with the nic taste but I think the market has matured and expanded attracting some who are vaping for vaping's sake, their own enjoyment and not so much to satisfy a habit or thr, and others who may have never like the flavor of tobacco and don't want nic taste to muddy their fav blends.

My hope is the market will continue to evolve. I recently heard of "nicotine salts" being added to mimic a cigarette like TH. I have no idea what "nicotine salts" are. I know that several of us on the thread, ordered a pg substitute sample. I never got it and I assume since no one has mentioned it, they never got it either. Come to think of it, I need to check on that. I know a commercial juice maker that ordered some and said I could get some from him.

There is also a public safety aspect to this thread. If there's nic that's out of spec, I think there's a good chance that this thread is going to hear about it quickly, maybe someone getting it and coming in here for the first time to figure out what they have. I have zero confidence of any regulatory agency monitoring the nic supply in a helpful way. I discovered this thread due to a strange batch of nic that I got. No panic, the knowledge here was invaluable.

 

[aikanae1]

You know what I've been vaping since late summer? I mixed the left-overs from that test together, diluted it down to my usual 35pg/65vg/15nic, and put it up in 120ml glass bottles. It's not the greatest, but it's acceptable.

What I learned: Do not keep partly full plastic bottles of 100mg PG nic at room temperature! It hasn't changed perceptibly since I mixed it down and bottled it in glass, but it sure did between the time I opened the original bottles and dispensed the samples (which I think that was in late June) and when I mixed down the remainder in mid August. The NN (which was the only one that came in glass to begin with) changed the least.

I have plenty of "fresh" NN in the freezer and it wouldn't kill me to dump the stuff I mixed down in August, but I figure if I can vape this, any NN coming out of my freezer 5 years or even 10 years from now will be just fine.

Interesting about the comparison with glass vs plastic. I don't think anyone's done a direct comparison before. I've heard of a few doing refrigerator vs freezer. I think there was little difference, but it was one test and who knows the variables in rl.

Heat, light and oxygen are the nic killers.

 

[440BB]

I wonder how much the plastic is a factor versus the oxygen in the partially filled bottle. I think I may take a bit of my next batch of 100ml and half fill a glass and plastic 15ml bottle and put them on the shelf for a month or two, dark at room temperature.

 

[Rossum]

I wonder how much the plastic is a factor versus the oxygen in the partially filled bottle. I think I may take a bit of my next batch of 100ml and half fill a glass and plastic 15ml bottle and put them on the shelf for a month or two, dark at room temperature.

FWIW, they were all in a dark cabinet for the ~6 weeks in question, so exposure to light would not have been a factor. Of course, they were all different nics, so it wasn't really a fair comparison of glass and plastic as the test you're suggesting would be. But all four did have substantial air in the bottle (approximately 2/3 of the volume of the bottle).

 

[aikanae1]

I wonder how much the plastic is a factor versus the oxygen in the partially filled bottle. I think I may take a bit of my next batch of 100ml and half fill a glass and plastic 15ml bottle and put them on the shelf for a month or two, dark at room temperature.

Kuewl. It might be interesting to put 2 in the cupboard, 2 in the referg, and 2 in the freezer. I doubt if the last 4 would change much due to the glass or plastic in a month or two, but might be nice to confirm. Maybe see what happens when checked at 6 mos, then again at a year. Hmmm. That's easy enough for me to do also.

If I remember right, NN's site mentions oxygen being more important than what many give it credit for ... for that reason, I think there was a case made to order nic in a base the same or close to what it'll be used as. I'm going to have to reread that. NN's info always seems to surprise me.

 

[r77r7r]

I've not ever had nic go bad on me until recently. I was using the last bit from a several month old bottle. Didn't notice anything taste wise or such, but it started turning my tongue really dark.

 

[mhertz]

[...]
If I remember right, NN's site mentions oxygen being more important than what many give it credit for ... for that reason, I think there was a case made to order nic in a base the same or close to what it'll be used as. I'm going to have to reread that. NN's info always seems to surprise me.

Take there info with a grain of salt in general, according to Kurt... (The above of course is correct though )

Yes, no oxygen, no oxidation, which is the sole thing that makes nic go "bad". It's heard in the wording; oxidation

Letting as little extra oxygen come into play is the best things possible and e.g. heat fastens this reaction(oxidation) process. Even with an unopened bottle, there's a little disolved O2 in the vg/pg allready. Not very much, but enough to make a slight color change...

I've also had nic go "bad"... Nic dosen't go bad, but oxidize which makes it taste worse and worse(more and more of nic), plus can give it harshness in TH and pepper, has been reported. I dumped a good deal after the summer heat had introduced(heightened) so much oxidation that it didn't taste as little as it normally did. It wasen't even very colored, but it could be tasted and smelled easilly though...

 

[JeremyR]

I'm still toying with how to compile data in the most objective way, not good or bad, but with some standardized definitions so others can make some good guesses. It might be a mute issue soon, so we'll see. I was thinking of using google docs but I don't know spreadsheets.

Me as well, compiling the results from the test again in charts or graphs and then possibly having a poll of sorts where each brand can be rated in perceived qualities by many people to get a general concensus on what one can expect with each nic.

 

[JeremyR]

Interesting about the comparison with glass vs plastic. I don't think anyone's done a direct comparison before. I've heard of a few doing refrigerator vs freezer. I think there was little difference, but it was one test and who knows the variables in rl.

Heat, light and oxygen are the nic killers.

Whenever I've left nice for a long time in the poly bottles like juice bottles it gets bad, with a plastic taste, almost like the plastic leaches into the nic after Considerable time like 6months +

 

[aikanae1]

Me as well, compiling the results from the test again in charts or graphs and then possibly having a poll of sorts where each brand can be rated in perceived qualities by many people to get a general concensus on what one can expect with each nic.

I've got a decent idea on how to approach that angle without being too time consuming. There is a way to sync doc to spreadsgeet for automatic updating. Some manual is needed but not as much. I'm too tired to make sense.

 

[52anddone]

Question Folks, is Liquid Barn and ECX basically the same as far as TH goes ? Also, I have, and use ECX in a 50/50 mix for my Unflavored juice, will Liquid Barn's Nic be the same as far as taste and smell ? I'm looking for another (the STRONGEST there is) TH Nic to maybe be MORE to my liking, ECX is getting there as I like the TH better than RTS/MBV for just a plain, straight, 50/50 mix.

 

[aikanae1]

Question Folks, is Liquid Barn and ECX basically the same as far as TH goes ? Also, I have, and use ECX in a 50/50 mix for my Unflavored juice, will Liquid Barn's Nic be the same as far as taste and smell ? I'm looking for another (the STRONGEST there is) TH Nic to maybe be MORE to my liking, ECX is getting there as I like the TH better than RTS/MBV for just a plain, straight, 50/50 mix.

I think Liquid Barn is kinda new. I don't recall many reviews on it yet. Try it.

 

[52anddone]

I think Liquid Barn is kinda new. I don't recall many reviews on it yet. Try it.

I think I might. Thanks for the reply. Was I supposed to get back to you on something ??

 

[aikanae1]

I think I might. Thanks for the reply. Was I supposed to get back to you on something ??

 

[52anddone]

View attachment 518996

OK, Thanks then. My memory has been AWOL for quite some time now, I have several threads that I watch and even get emails on, but still forget things if it's been longer than a few days.

 

[mhertz]

Question Folks, is Liquid Barn and ECX basically the same as far as TH goes ? [...]

Sorry, not tried, but they are both listed to use nicselect from alchem, so they should be identical, except for batchdifferences, pg/vg brands and oxidation(handling). In short, yes, identical...

Note, this is for the "regular" nic of liquid-barn and not there usa-liquid-nic. That one is among highest TH and flavor, according to Jeremy.

 

[herb]

Question Folks, is Liquid Barn and ECX basically the same as far as TH goes ? Also, I have, and use ECX in a 50/50 mix for my Unflavored juice, will Liquid Barn's Nic be the same as far as taste and smell ? I'm looking for another (the STRONGEST there is) TH Nic to maybe be MORE to my liking, ECX is getting there as I like the TH better than RTS/MBV for just a plain, straight, 50/50 mix.

I only tried samples from Liquid Barn but the samples from them were actually better than i thought they would be , the ECX nic i bought (long time ago so things might have changed) was very very peppery to me.

 

[52anddone]

Sorry, That's what I ment, USA-Liquid-Nic from Liquid Barn.

 

[JeremyR]

OK that's clear. Keep in mind each mega batch has potential to be different. The usaLN I got 6 months ago seem to have the most th burn but also the most taste while remaining the clearest? # which I thought was odd. It seems like they use a different process than others to make it.

The taste I got from it was different than others. Almost woody or terpine or chemical?, It probably would be classified as an off taste. Another member said that it tasted real clean, so YMMV

The old nics had the chemical taste too and that also made them harsh with TH.

 

[52anddone]

Terpine ? Is that a correct spelling, I tried to look it up and found Nothing. I have tasted Saffire juices and didn't like the chemical/Ammonia taste/smell I got from it, at all . Anything similar to that and I will prolly just stay with ECX (now mixed up to 12mg/ml) just for the TH.

I have found that I need TH more than I thought I did. Since going up to 12mg/ml I don't even finish off a full tank (in a 24 hour span, counting sleep time) in my New Big Buddha mini (2.5ml), using 30g Double Twisted 'UD' Kanthal A-1 wire, wrapped on a 2.5mm Coil Master at 9/8 wraps getting 1.5 ohms and pushing 13 whole watts, set for a Tight MTL using a 4mm width piece of KGD, where at 9mg/ml I was pushing 2 tank fulls per day.

I don't really like mixing up to a 12mg/ml level in Nic strength due to my Cardiac situation, but found I have to, just to get acceptable TH, and That's why I am on the search for the Highest TH Nic I can get, so I don't have to mix that high (Real Good TH @ 6mg/ml would be Great).

At the beginning of last year (2015) I was at 6mg/ml and was happy with MBV Unflavored. I really don't know what has changed with me since then (unless my Heart problems and 4 Hospital stays for A-Fib/Blood Pressure going Off The Charts, somehow Re-Booted my system and that changed my metabolism ?? ), I was going thru 5ml per day of 6mg/ml, and now @ 12mg/ml I go thru between 2-2.5ml per day. I think that figures out to about 24-30mg of Nic per day for me I guess, so it all evens out, and that's an average for over this last year. I even went all the way down to 3mg/ml of RTS for a short period but was re-filling my 5ml Cthulhu V2 (almost 10ml) just to get thru an average day (I wasn't using 3mg/ml long enough to notice how much exactly I was using though, but it was a lot for my standards).

Edit: I still might try USA-Liquid Nic so that I know for sure. Leave No Doubts.