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Nicotine Comparisons

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by Cyrus Vap, May 20, 2012.

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  1. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    VZ 100 mg/ml PG, diluted to 33mg/ml 33% PG 67% VG

    RTS 100 mg/ml VG, diluted to 33mg/ml 33% PG 67% VG

    I have unfortunately ripped through my 30 ml sample of ECX, so I cannot mix it straight and have it here for 'real time' comparison, so I'm relying on memory and my previous comparison of ECX, VZ and MFS. MFS nic I know like the back of my hand by this point, so its likewise not on the table in the flesh at the moment.
    Both were transferred to amber glass bottles, heated indirectly with water for a few minutes while intermittently shaken, then allowed to cool to room temp and transferred into two separate plastic dropper bottles for dripping.

    One poorly controlled variable here is the VZ nic obviously uses their PG, and my VG, while the RTS nic uses my PG, and their VG. That said, I don't think its an issue.


    Vaped On:
    Two phoenix, both washed, stem removed and set up for dripping, stock wick and coils. Both Ohming in at 2.2. V4L eGo fresh off the charger.

    Time: Intermittently, last night through now.

    Clarity of Odor:
    Before I hurt anyone's feelings, let me say I have a sensitive nose. I can smell nicotine, period.

    Uncapping the bottle of RTS that I got on Friday, I was able to smell nic. Not overwhelming or gross per se, but yes, odor. More than ECX, more than VZ, less than MFS which has the strongest alkaline pungency of the 4.

    In terms of clarity of odor, I'd say its VZ = ECX >> RTS > MFS

    What about when vaped? No odor on the RTS (or the VZ) unless I TRY to smell it. Meaning, if I stick my nose in my steaming atty and inhale through the nose, I can smell it. Here the RTS is more stinky as well. But in normal vaping conditions, effectively no odor.

    So again it would be VZ= ECX >> RTS > MFS

    Clarity of Color:
    Ever read all those posts about how crystal clear RTS nic is? Well it's not. It arrived with a nice yellow tint, on par with the appearance of aged MFS nic. Its not gross or bad looking, its slight, but its there. Not a big deal necessarily, as nicotine will oxidize with time and yellow a bit, there's nothing we can do about it. So color doesn't necessarily mean anything per se. But it's still off putting.

    I tried to take pictures side by side with the VZ nic, which after some time is absolutely crystal clear...when I say clear, I mean *clear* (as was the ECX). Problem is the lighting in my room was actually making the yellow tint look significantly worse than it is, and I didn't want to misrepresent my eyes, so I skipped posting it. Let's just say I'd normally make labels for this kind of a test, and I didn't have to, as the RTS is readily identifiable by its appearance.

    In terms of clarity of color, I'd say its VZ = ECX > MFS > RTS

    Clarity of Flavor:
    The dominant note with both solutions is PG, likely because I'm not a huge fan of the taste and overly aware of it. The PG is a bit more prominent on the RTS (see below). I'm not tasting much of anything on either: mouth inhales and exhales, mouth inhales and nose exhales, or mouth inhales with nose/mouth exhales. I don't get the peppery/pungent note that I taste in MFS.

    In terms of clarity of flavor I'd say its RTS = ECX = VZ >> MFS

    TH:
    RTS has a reputation for being a 'smooth' nicotine. I would phrase it differently. The TH is subdued, maybe even weak. This maybe why I can pick up the PG more clearly with the RTS vs. the VZ.

    I can see this nicotine possibly lending itself to 'cute' juices that are sweet, fruity, etc. That said, I have it mixed at 26 nic in a tobacco juice and I'm still getting a rocking "TH" which I'd ascribe to the flavor, and the juice, which I've also mixed with VZ, ECX and MFS nic, is no more flavorful or alive with the RTS nic than it is with the others...just a bit less TH.

    So I don't think there is any clarity gained for flavor, just a weaker throat hit. That could be a good thing if its what you want, but it may really annoy you if you enjoy the throat hit. I'm not sure exactly how I feel about it yet, time will tell.

    Another possible variable here is the *actual* nic content. If VZ was 3% high, and/or RTS was 3% low, it could lead to a difference in final nic concentration of the solutions, explaining the subdued TH. I dunno.

    All in all, this is a stellar nicotine. I have my reservations about the color. I don't like to get nic that is already yellow, albeit slightly. Just hasn't happened to me with the other three vendors. In particular I'm concerned it won't hold up so well with time. We'll see.

    I'm also a little uneasy with the subdued TH. Either its lower than advertised concentration, pilot error, or its just...weird. Something's not right. I'm guessing this lack of TH has generated quite a few fans; if this is what you're looking for RTS is for you.

    Quality Control and Company, Customer Service: RTS and MFS make their lab data readily available, which is a huge plus. To date I don't think VZ or ECX have done this. I don't really doubt people until they give me a reason to (naive on my part, I know). And given the excellent customer service and respectable conduct of ECX linnx, VZ louie and leah, and MFS Chris, I don't doubt the purity of their product at all.

    MFS would thus seem to have the edge in the QC department.

    I wouldn't grant that edge to RTS, simply because of Randy's attitude. Perusing the RTS thread didn't really give me the info I was looking for, but instead encumbered me with navigating through pages upon pages of ECF members (some of whom I hold in *high* regard), being flamed and alienated. These pages were punctuated with gratuitous "proof is in the pudding" kind of logic that consists of profit and sales quotes, often cited as a justification, or "I don't care" kind of response to people that felt so insulted they felt the need to threaten withdrawal of their business.

    What's my point, and how is this relevant?

    If this is the way someone runs things, they could hand me a hard copy of a lab certificate signed by Jesus Christ and I wouldn't wipe myself with it. That's to say nothing of their purely verbal claims. Character and attitude radiate and emanate from a person like rays from the sun, impregnating their surroundings, activities, products, etc. I have no reason to suspect anything 'shady' from RTS, but given the way they *act* I'm forced to suspend, and reverse my 'innocent until guilty' naivete and instead operate on the principle: "If you can screw me, you probably will."

    I personally don't want a "screw you, I'm always right, look at my sales" kind of person mixing my poison.

    So in summary, subjectively speaking this is a great product, a little stinky, a little weak, and a little yellow.

    But its not worth dealing with sub par professionalism for, and its 'not as good' as VZ and ECX in my opinion. As it stands now, my money goes to VZ and ECX, with some MFS here and there.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Jimi D.

    Jimi D. ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 26, 2010
    Florida Keys
    Thanks for that Stellar review Cyrus. You've explained so clearly of how the nic bases differ from one to another.
    I knew I was missing the TH, but I couldn't figure out why. I thought it was my juice making, until I made the switch.
    Save a little bit of it, and see how long it takes, before it turns brown. Which I was very concerned about.
    When I did make the switch, I actually had to lower my nic levels, being that it is weaker in strength.

    Also, I'd love to read your thoughts on Nicvape. Which to me, is one hell of a nic. base..But, that's just me.
    Keep them coming, Thanks again!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    I hope to get a hold of nicvape and xtremevaping nic soon, but the thing is, if VZ is just as good as nicvape as you tell me, and I find ECX just as good as VZ, one could argue I should probably stop looking for something better and stick with linx and leah.

    How much better can it get than flavorless, colorless straight up TH?

    Maybe if I am convinced of somebody's purity over my two favorites right now, but I dunno...

    ECX prices are pretty sweet right now!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Jimi D.

    Jimi D. ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 26, 2010
    Florida Keys
    Cool..We are both happy campers then! :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. stashbldr

    stashbldr Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 6, 2010
    Florida
    Thanks so much for doing this Cyrus :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    My pleasure stashbldr :)
     
  7. stashbldr

    stashbldr Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 6, 2010
    Florida
    I order 99% of my flavorings from ECX but never even thought to try their nic. I'm getting ready to order more and MORE of their Asian RY4 (my new very favorite vape) so I'll also order some of their nic and try it. Thanks!!!
     
  8. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    I would highly recommend it! Linnx is the man, my only regret is he doesn't live closer so I can't buy him a few beers :)
     
  9. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    another potential issue

    when we toked the analogs, the throat and lungs would let us know when we had too much

    with vaping, the only 'control' left is 1) symptoms of too much nic (which some of us never get) 2) throat irritation from PG (which I don't use) 3) throat irritation from TH

    with the RTS, I barely get a TH from 25-30 nic, which is bad. I find myself vaping more and more, looking for a solid hit, and I don't get it. not good. probably dangerous. just saying.
     
  10. Jimi D.

    Jimi D. ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 26, 2010
    Florida Keys
    I always thought why I didn't get that tingle, like all the other nicotine bases I had prior. I remember when I used snus at 8mg, and always would get that nicotine tingle. It makes me wonder, what's the ingredients, or lack of???
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    man snus gives a tingle? that's awesome! where do you feel it?
     
  12. Jimi D.

    Jimi D. ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 26, 2010
    Florida Keys
    You place the pouch on the upper lip.
     
  13. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
  14. Jimi D.

    Jimi D. ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 26, 2010
    Florida Keys
    I miss the tingly lips...lol
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. wolcen

    wolcen Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 9, 2011
    Boston, MA
    Bingo! Ever since I got "that email" I have looked into, and haven't been able to overlook their conduct. Not sure if you've looked at him in any more depth or not, but he didn't start up this business as any sort of nicotine expert nor chemist. He's an internet entrepreneur. I won't believe a thing he says at this point (i.e. FDA doesn't leave the country/operate outside the US/approve foreign-sourced chemicals? FALSE; No one has USP nic? Wait a minute..."that email" lists the prices competitors were allegedly paying for USP nic; USP = 99.9% is unclear - monograph states "99-101% on anhydrous basis", there was no response on that one)

    When you look at his info on how forums can be helpful to drawing business, I can only wonder why he doesn't take his own advice. Perhaps his real belief is that "any news is good news" and enjoys the controversy just drawing attention to the business. I dunno.

    Either way, I will admit I had no problem with the nic itself (mine is also slightly yellowed, but just a hint - I don't understand the issue there though, nic itself is yellow-brown), nor the ordering process, etc. I just can't get myself to look beyond the behavior. He's even pointed out this thread from his suggesting someone post here to correct your review somehow:
    Anyway....

    Cyrus Vap, thank you again for all the time you spend reviewing and sharing! When's that official CyrusVap reviews site gonna be up (wink wink nudge nudge!)?

    Also, I have a little 60mg PG Wizard Labs "Ice" available. If you haven't tried it, I think it will compare similarly to the ECX/VZ stuff (pricing and availability are as yet unclear unfortunately). Any chance that if I send it along you'd be able to compare/contrast with the others as well? I wouldn't part with it otherwise, but I have faith in your reviews, and given you have/had the other items to compare to, I think it'd be worth my sacrifice.
     
  16. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    Wolcen, thank you for your input. I agree with you 100%

    I'm aware of his attempt to have people come here and speak their mind. Heck, lets not candy coat: his attempt to have mwa, who i hold in high regard, come here and 'fix' my review. Mwa can read, as can the people of ECF.

    I have more faith in people then to be bothered by this. People on the ECF are sharp enough, IMO, to read my review. They won't miss where I said "all in all this is a stellar nicotine."

    They won't miss that I'm fully aware of yellowing as a natural process, just don't prefer GETTING my nic that way.

    And they won't miss where I said aside from preference, the issue is RTS, not the nicotine.

    And they won't miss where I said I want TH, which leads me to enjoy ECX/MFS/VZ more than RTS. I was just vaping 33 mg RTS again, straight. Hits like 100% VG, 0 nic. Sorry, don't like it.

    This is a vapers review, written for vapers. This is all my opinion.

    If I want Randy's opinion I know where to find it. I didn't post here to avoid his ability to comment, I just couldn't care less. And why would I?

    I am not looking for an argument, as there is no argument. Sorry but my taste buds reign supreme in my cute little mouth.

    This part of the forum is for us, not vendors, and I'm quite happy about that.

    I'm very thankful for all that ECF does for us.

    Wizard Labs has been on my radar for a while, and I would love to try both their standard and Ice line. I wouldn't want you to part with your sauce though, especially if you like it, though I'm grateful for the offer, that's very kind of you.

    If you're willing to wait a bit, i'll likely have some of that, and xtreme vaping, for a 6 way comparison?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    And Wolcen I wasn't trying to refuse your kindness for the heck of it, or avoid the 'work' of doing doing another review (which I'd love to do)

    I honestly would feel bad taking your nic from you, especially since you like it, and its not readily available yet! :)
     
  18. wolcen

    wolcen Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 9, 2011
    Boston, MA

    My thing was that I just never know how it starts out. Since nicotine's MSDS says "Yellowish-brown. Colorless to light yellow" and I've also never seen (nor read of anyone seeing) it straight from the lab, I've been guessing that yellowing of nic could only provide a very approximate age and/or handling of the nic since I can't compare it to how discolored it may be to start with. It does seem though that everyone - vendors included - back up the idea that if you can notice any discoloration, then it's notably changed from what they see in the freshest possible nic juice.



    Very much looking forward to it! :thumbs:
     
  19. r77r7r

    r77r7r ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2011
    Pa,LandOfTaxes
    ............................
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    never tried onestopdiy r77, I think I steered away due to the price in fact! thank you for your post, feel free to tell us about the onestop nic!
     
    • Like Like x 1

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