Nicotine Comparisons

[B2L]

That figures. I just received my 30% off order today.

Mines out for delivery, but it's a good excuse for more

 

[52anddone]

Yes each stage in atties will take a different amount of nic. Many drop to half or less when going to high powered drippers.

Using the 3mg in the dripper at higher power will intensify the taste and nic uptake to make it closer to like a 4-5 at lower power levels.. Just use the higher nic delivery when you have a craving or need a little extra punch for a bit.

Yes, I now agree. What seems strange to me is that the Lemo V2 and Cthulhu V2 came to market, what, 6-8 months apart ? I wouldn't have expected there to be enough difference in the delivery of the two for me to notice, But I do and had to lower my Nic. Maybe I should just go back to my Lemo V2 (and stay at 3mg/ml) for now and save my Cthulhu V2 for later for when I get over this hump I'm at, If I ever do that is. Something for me to think about I guess.

If your wanting to stock up get 100mg nic. Its a much better way to store nic. Less base per nic is better for storage. Its cheaper and more compact. Will reduce available oxygen slightly by less base.

That's something to think about, I can store 100mg Nic and work with 36mg for now and when/or if the time comes to break it out I should be experienced enough to use it safely. Sounds like a plan to me. Thanks Jeremy.

Would you think that it would impact the flavor to get RTS 100mg Nic in VG base and then mix with ED VG/PG instead of using RTS VG/PG ?

 

[52anddone]

Some of the small differences you don't have to get crazy over.

YES, That's what I am trying to filter thru right now as I have read so many posts where some just get .... about certain aspects of vaping and get carried away with things that don't really matter in the long run. This thread has cut that part of it down so that it is easier for me to be able to determine what is really important and what is superfluous. Thank You CV for starting this thread.

 

[52anddone]

Yeah I finally had to add 3-5% water to my vg as its been too cold here.

I will Definitely keep that in mind as it can get -30 to -35 degrees F in the winter here.

 

[mhertz]

Sorry for off-topic, but as we here are a little nuts with tastes and differences in nics, then for the most of us that also applies to e.g. vg/pg + I love this thread I gotta admit

Anyway, the 3 major bulk pg/vg sellers usually talked about here, ED(Essential Depot), BA(Bulk Apothecary) and DD(Duda Diesel), we know that ED is palm based and DD is soy based and US manufactured.

I've just left a chat with BA support, and there vg is palm based and from Malaysia I learned. I also asked them if they where changing sources a lot of if they where static, and they said that they always get it from the same source in malaysia, but that based on availability, they get either palm or soy based glycerin.

I read also a lot of the reviews by people there and they also get glowing reviews there by vapers, just like ED does... There where one review though by an experienced vapor of 6 years, and he gave it all the stars available, but also stated that it tasted a little bit different than that of ED(but didn't mentioned if it was a good or bad different ), and also a little bit less thick, but that his finished mixes where the same and without difference in taste...

This led me to compare the viscosity measures of both in there msds sheets; at 20C, BA's is 1300 mPas and ED's don't list degrees, but the standard is 20C I believe if not mentioning it; but was 1490 mPas! ED's water is also in the coa listed as 0.04%.

It's very expensive to buy in the states for me(and getting nic is illegal), e.g. one gallon of vg from ED is 117 bucks just in shipment alone! A glycube of 4 gallons is 266 bucks for just shipment alone!

So I buy in the EU, and my favorite vg(and nic = chemnovatic) to date, is pink-mule's, which also is almost twice as expensive as the cheapest EU dealer, also because the max bottles are 500ml's only, so not much bulk-savings there, but anyway, that vg lists just min. 1150 mPas at 20C! However, that's just the minimum, though and it seems good and thick to me...

Sorry for blabbing on about this, mates! See you!

 

[Dixie1954]

I guess I am very lucky for at least being able to order in the USA - not much else.

 

[Rickajho]

If your using Rayon it increases nic absorption by up to 25-30%.. I Had to go down from 12mg to 8mg for an adv otherwise I got nic'd out as I called it. Simply by changing the Wick my nic absorption Increased that much. I vaped 12mg for a year with no problem.. Not with Rayon!

How can changing your wick material cause your body to absorb more nicotine? I think you need to clarify the point so the newbies aren't confused about the real cause and effect issue at hand here.

 

[Rossum]

Rayon is a more efficient wicking material. This lets the same coil produce more vapor.

 

[JeremyR]

How can changing your wick material cause your body to absorb more nicotine? I think you need to clarify the point so the newbies aren't confused about the real cause and effect issue at hand here.

There's a section on ecf created for this subject of Rayon. I stated the reality, no confusion.

What do you suppose the real cause and effect is, since you seem to have your own theory.

It is a absolute fact that needs to be known by newbies. To stop the misinformation concerning Rayon.

Someone off the street trys rayon with thier normal nic and then wonders why they feel funny, have side effects of heavy vaping and high nicotine usage. They don't even think about the connection to increased delivery, and think it's a Rayon side effect, when the side effect of Rayon is a 25% increase in all components of the juice in the vapor.

The vapor is more liquified, or misted off rayon, its like drinking your juice instead of burning it... Its a well observed phenomenon. A more efficient vaporization causes an increase in juice particals in true vapor form. Not smoke. Its more like spraying mist like binaca in your mouth.

The larger droplets of vapor is where the increase of absorption occur. More liquid is laying down on the mucus membranes. More liquid more absorption.

Rayon is like drinking juice cotton burns it more. Cotton does not resaturate the coil as fast, after you hit the button for that first second saturation reduces as you hold, and Juice starts to slightly burn on the coil.

Sure you can now cheat and control temperature to keep it from burning as much but it still just restricts your power. Also reducing the nic available in the vapor. Rayon can go much hotter with more saturation for a higher concentration of juice components in the vapor..

Also Rayon takes about 3 more watts to force vaporization because of the increased saturation. So you get a slight bump from that too. Plus you have capability to go higher in power than before. These are all a result of using Rayon.

 

[herb]

I have used Rayon and quality Japanese Cotton for years , for me personally , i see zero difference in vape quality and taste quality , Rayon is definitely more durable and lasts longer without gunking up.

Anyone know if VaporsTek is doing a BF sale?

 

[Rossum]

I have used Rayon and quality Japanese Cotton for years

How many years?

Spoiler

Jeremy introduced rayon to the vaping community about a year and a half ago.

 

[mhertz]

Wow, thanks for that write-up Jeremy! I have rayon in my vaping-gear but must admit I haven't tried it yet, but that complete up-summing of rayons pluses sounds crazy not to use it then! I can't wait to see for myself next time I need rewicking and I hope I feel the same!(although I only rewick about every 3-4 weeks running 20+ml's a day 90% vg at min 60watts! Unflavored for the win! ) I just thought it had slightly better capillary action and lower absorption/holding than .... cotton, as that's what I have glanced before, so you would get less dry-hits and go longer between rewicks... I got it when I had problems with dryhits, but then before using it found out to just use lower gauge wire to fix dry hits(of course ONLY if wicking is perfect, or else it's a wicking issue obviously), which I always heard the opposite(as lower gauge is only hotter if upping the wattage and the opposite without!). Although the actual reason I haven't jumped full ship in, is because of that pbusardo wicking-test video, but I remember you in your thread stated the part about this just showing that rayon has lower absorbtion(or something like that), but still better capilary action. However, I just still don't get why the rayon wick wouldn't get saturated before .... cotton, if it had better capillary action? It would transfer faster and hence be wet, but just not be just as wet as cotton would I think would show better cap. action wihout better holding?

Anyway, thanks again, mate!

 

[herb]

How many years?

Spoiler

Jeremy introduced rayon to the vaping community about a year and a half ago.

Since the Rayon explosion started , bought that giant box , been using it off and on with Japanese cotton , Ramie , Peaches and Cream Yarn and Silica/ Ekowool .

I think it's good but i don't get the superiority in taste that some claim , i agree about longevity though.

 

[52anddone]

I have used Rayon and quality Japanese Cotton for years , for me personally , i see zero difference in vape quality and taste quality , Rayon is definitely more durable and lasts longer without gunking up.

Anyone know if VaporsTek is doing a BF sale?

That's prolly like me with different Nic's. I have a real hard time telling a difference between different Nic's, and as far as flavors go with all that people post about the notes that they taste, mostly the only note I can taste is whether it is a Good note or a Bad note to me, that's it. I feel I am a terrible taste tester so I don't get all that adamant about taste, cause I just know that if I do then about 10 people will pop up and say something totally opposite to me, There are so many folks that do notice a difference that it must be my taster/sniffer is Lame. I can Rayon wick my Magma's Big Time and do notice a difference, but my RTA's I can't get it done good enough to form an opinion on (I either use too much, too little, I flood it, or I choke it off), so I just use KGD/Muji for those.

 

[herb]

That's prolly like me with different Nic's. I have a real hard time telling a difference between different Nic's, and as far as flavors go with all that people post about the notes that they taste, mostly the only note I can taste is whether it is a Good note or a Bad note to me, that's it. I feel I am a terrible taste tester so I don't get all that adamant about taste, cause I just know that if I do then about 10 people will pop up and say something totally opposite to me, There are so many folks that do notice a difference that it must be my taster/sniffer is Lame. I can Rayon wick my Magma's Big Time and do notice a difference, but my RTA's I can't get it done good enough to form an opinion on (I either use too much, too little, I flood it, or I choke it off), so I just use KGD/Muji for those.

I can tell if a nic is overly peppery but that's it , nuances definitely not .

 

[mhertz]

I think that everyone should be able to taste that bad chemical taste of nic, if doubling or even higher, the nic content, for just a few hits in a good atty. At e.g. 3mg you can have a hard time separating between what is the vg and what is the nic if not knowing both intimately and having a good pallet.

I then go by which has the least powerful chemical taste, and also no other disturbing nuances. The tobacco notes of e.g. some nicselect batches tasted good to me at lower to medium wattage previously in rta's, but doesn't on a dripper with dual coils at 60 watts imho. I vaped chemnovatic for a week straight, and then went to another mix from a nicselect batch with water in it from the vendor, and that tasted much worse to me and instead of fresh and clean then it felt "dirty" compared, as the wet tobacco leaves, nutty, wooden and earthy taste wasn't good with high wattage on a dripper imho.

 

[JeremyR]

Mhertz before you do try it, review the op of the Rayon Wick thread pt2, so your primed to get it done correctly. (Now thats a write up) Rayon delivers and effortlessly releases juice to the coil, cotton absorbs juice and would rather hold it back from the coil. The transfer rate with Rayon is really quite remarkable when used correctly. It holds onto no juice whatsoever, unless it needs to to protect itself from burning.

Yes heavier gauge will heat slower and run cooler watt for watt. Its also another way to cheat out of cottons poor release of juice to the coil. 40w to 24g is no where near the speed or heat of 28g at 40w.

Busardos review was flawed Rayon doesn't work like cotton at all. Comparing apples to oranges. Like using one of those orange juicer things you smash the orange on. Try with an apple you get nothing. That's the difference in the test parameters.

You guys use what ever you want for wick. If you choose Rayon I'll help you in anyway I can.

 

[herb]

Do people need help when using "Rayon" , there's really nothing to it imo. I forgot to mention many snug up Rayon tighter in the coil than cotton since cotton expands and supposedly Rayon somewhat shrinks a hair but i don't know for sure.

A lot of people rave about Rayon and some feel they don't see much of a difference besides it's longevity advantage .

 

[52anddone]

I think that everyone should be able to taste that bad chemical taste of nic, if doubling or even higher, the nic content, for just a few hits in a good atty. At e.g. 3mg you can have a hard time separating between what is the vg and what is the nic if not knowing both intimately and having a good pallet.

I then go by which has the least powerful chemical taste, and also no other disturbing nuances. The tobacco notes of e.g. some nicselect batches tasted good to me at lower to medium wattage previously in rta's, but doesn't on a dripper with dual coils at 60 watts imho. I vaped chemnovatic for a week straight, and then went to another mix from a nicselect batch with water in it from the vendor, and that tasted much worse to me and instead of fresh and clean then it felt "dirty" compared, as the wet tobacco leaves, nutty, wooden and earthy taste wasn't good with high wattage on a dripper imho.

Oh Yeah, by all means the Bad Chemical, Ammonia type taste, for sure I can taste (and even smell) that one (Saffire). That Saffire juice that I had gotten when I first started vaping back in Aug. 2014 I still have some of in my fridge. Now that stuff tastes (and smells) like something one would scrub floors with . Boy Howdy, I can't believe that that is what got me off of cigarettes. It's a wonder I'm still alive to tell the tale , and that was only at 12mg/ml. After that I got some juice from "Blackmoon Ejuice Co." out of Chicago but sold in a little'ol B&M shop in Sioux Falls, SD when on a visit to see my daughter and family, and THAT stuff tasted SOOOOOO much better that I went all the way up to 30mg/ml for a few months. Now when people talk about ECX being nasty, or RTS or MFS tasting awful, I just can't imagine that those could EVER measure Down to what I started off vaping with in 2014. Ha Ha !!

Edit: A good Pallet, At this point in time I guess I either Don't have one, or haven't learned how to properly use the one I've got.

 

[52anddone]

A lot of people rave about Rayon and some feel they don't see much of a difference besides it's longevity advantage .

If not wicked properly, Rayon is NO different that KGD/Muji aside from the longevity, so you're correct in that assessment. I don't notice any difference in my RTA's at all when I wick with Rayon, Except for a couple of times that is (even a blind tree squirrel will find an Acorn once in a while) and I got it ( a Lemo V1) wicked just right, WoW !!! The difference was simply Amazing, Sooo much better, it was like vaping a different (much better) juice, the flavors just Popped and they Brightened up Considerably (that was when I was vaping different types of Vanilla's, also Boba's Bounty and Gryphen's Breath). Listen to me, Flavors Popping and getting Brighter. I feel Like Coach Vince Lombardi "What the He!! is going on here".