Nicotine dose?

[qchristensen]

One of the few research articles on e-cigs finds the nicotine dose and physiological response of vaping is much less than smoking. The physical effects are so small they are insignificant.
A Clinical Laboratory Model for Evaluating the Acute Effects of Electronic

What do you guys think? Can you feel anything when you vape? Does it depend on what you are using? What should I consider if I want a greater dose (besides nicotine concentration)?

 

[mooreted]

Well, there is another study that claims e-cig users get as much nicotine as cigarette smokers but I can't find it at the moment.

I know that when I am having a "nicotine fit" my PV cures it and that's all that really matters to me.

If you smoke about a pack a day, try 18mg and adjust from there. My sweet spot is 24mg.

 

[markfm]

See post 29 here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-cigarettes-deliver-nicotine-jf-etter-3.html

 

[CaminoDiablo]

Well just vapeing 10 puffs a session I think is a little low but I'm not a scientist. It's an interesting study but yes I feel the nic when I vape. I do chaie vape 15mg but if I goto 36mg I can really feel the effect. I'm sure it depends on the ecig your using. I use all MODS and there is a huge difference in the vapor and hit. Also it depends on the voltage of the mod and the ohms of the atty/carto

 

[mooreted]

Ah ha! Found it:

Electronic Cigarettes Deliver as Much Nicotine as Tobacco Cigarettes -- GENEVA, Switzerland, November 1, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

 

[Beans]

In the beginning of my vaping I was using high e liquid and yes I could feel the effects of nicotine when I vaped. However as I progressed in time my need for nicotine has nearly disappeared. I use very Low doses now and sometimes none at all. Im comfortable with it. For me NOW it's more important to simulate the act of smoking instead of NEEDING drugs. If I get very anxious or stressed is when I lean towards the nic.

 

[Traver]

I guess everyone on this forum is suffering from delusions because an awful lot of them seem satisfied with the amount of nicotine they are getting. This study was done with small batteries and people who had no idea how to vape. As mooreted said there have been other studies that contradict this one.

 

[Renzuli]

Welcome to ECF , and I don't know where you read this , but I get the same satisfaction from vaping , as I did smoking . If I crave a regular cig , and I still do occasionally , I vape a higher nic. juice . I also tend to use 5 or 6 volts , and a lot of VG (like great clouds of vapor) and the higher nic. and the higher voltages , give more of a throat hit . I also use mostly tobacco flavors , and add "tobacco absolute" to my juices (better mimics regular ciggy's) So even after 45 years at 2 packs a day , I got off the stinky's after two weeks , and haven't had one since .

 

[qchristensen]

I'm not a shrink, but I do know that psychological effects can be significant. The study I linked found that eCigs had a significant impact on craving nicotine even though there was a reduced dose. Of course, they may find an insignificant dose-response because their measurement techniques aren't sensitive enough (a negative result is not informative).

Thanks for the forum link. I did consider that the people using eCigs in the study I posted were naive (new) users and this would make a difference. Does anybody have a link to some data from Eissenberg 2011?

 

[markfm]

Look at my prior post, I link to a thread with Etter's latest work.

"We found substantial amounts of cotinine in the saliva of ENDS users. These results contrast with two laboratory reports that concluded that ENDS did not reliably increase blood nicotine levels [3].....cotinine levels in ENDS users were similar to levels previously observed in smokers [6] and higher than levels previously found in NRT users [7, 8]. Cotinine levels are roughly similar when measured in blood or in saliva [6, 9, 10], so studies using cotinine in blood and in saliva can be compared. Participants had not smoked for ≥20 days and had not used NRT or smokeless tobacco for ≥48 h (about three times the half-life of cotinine in smokers) [10]. Thus, results are unlikely to be contaminated by other sources of nicotine. "

 

[Beans]

The best source for this kind of thing is CASAA. Hit Traver's link up above to the web site.

 

[dormouse]

I think you'll find that once you are away from the extra additive effects of cigarettes (which have 4000 chemicals), the nicotine amount you get won't be as big a deal as getting nice big drag, the nicotine throat hit you want, and a satisfying relaxing flavor and aroma. Nicotine is not as addictive when not in cigarettes.

Re feel it - yes - I feel satisfied and relaxed like I did with cigs. What you will not find is the head buzz effect cigarettes cause by giving you carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide to inhale (along with cyanide, formaldehyde, carpet glue and more).

 

[qchristensen]

Wow, this forum is really active. Thanks everybody. I really like to look at the primary literature since I can evaluate it. Things can change when the story gets passed down.

I'll have to look over the Etter and Bullen paper ( Saliva cotinine levels in users of electronic cigarettes ).
I couldn't find Tom Eissenberg's most recent research. Apparently it isn't all published anyway.
It seems that there is a large variability in delivery based on the device, so I guess I'll have to choose carefully ( Variability Among Electronic Cigarettes in the Pressure Drop, Airflow Rate, and Aerosol Production )

I'll check out CASAA at some point, although I'll have to keep in mind an advocacy group probably isn't the best place to get unbiased info

 

[qchristensen]

I think you'll find that once you are away from the extra additive effects of cigarettes (which have 4000 chemicals), the nicotine amount you get won't be as big a deal as getting nice big drag, the nicotine throat hit you want, and a satisfying relaxing flavor and aroma. Nicotine is not as addictive when not in cigarettes.

Re feel it - yes - I feel satisfied and relaxed like I did with cigs. What you will not find is the head buzz effect cigarettes cause by giving you carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide to inhale (along with cyanide, formaldehyde, carpet glue and more).

I hear you. I'm interested in eCigs because they are significantly healthier than smoking.
I don't really believe that nicotine is less addictive when not in cigarettes. There is plenty of data that that isn't true. I would believe that eCigs don't deliver as much nicotine on average, and therefore would be less addictive.

 

[dormouse]

That's because I didn't state that right - nicotine alone is less addictive than the combination of nicotine and the MAOI antidepressant effect in cigarettes.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-nicotine-absorption-addictiveness-maois.html

 

[KeithB]

Yes, I've felt the effects of nicotine while vaping. When I was new to vaping, I'd get headaches from too much nicotine. Now that I have more experience with vaping, I notice that I'm feeling a little zippy, maybe an elevated heartrate, before I get to the headache stage. I've been led to believe that nicotine absoption from e-cigs is much slower that from smoking as some of the additives in cigarettes are there to spped this process.

In, my experience, nic delivery can be increased by increased by increasing the wattage you vape at. This can be accomplished by increasing your voltage, decreasing the resistance of your atomizer/cartomizer or both. The same juice in a RN4081 at ~3.4 watts is to produce much less vapor that a 5V mod with a 2 ohm carto delivering about 12.5 watts. More vapor=more nicotine.

 

[Traver]

I hear you. I'm interested in eCigs because they are significantly healthier than smoking.
I don't really believe that nicotine is less addictive when not in cigarettes. There is plenty of data that that isn't true. I would believe that eCigs don't deliver as much nicotine on average, and therefore would be less addictive.

Where would we find this data?

I have been addicted to tobacco for over forty years. I started vaping a bit over a year ago and over the past year I have stopped using nicotine. It took absolutely no effort for me to give it up and a lot of vapors on this forum have done the same thing. To me that indicates that for many people it is the hand to mouth habit and whatever else is in smoke that makes smoking so addictive. I used believe the same thing about nicotine now I'm not so sure.