Nicotine no more harmful than caffeine

[stols001]

IDK "too much coffee" is sort of really hard to do.

I did meet a dude in my first rehab who had a head injury (he was really kind of fun) but he had like, pretty much, no ability to do anything with any kind of moderation. Etc. I mean, if left unchecked he would drink like 50 pots of coffee in a day, easy.

Other than that though, I have not met too many people diagnosed with the dreaded "caffeine dependence." It's kind of hard to do, honestly, unless perhaps you area gamer with monster drinks, I saw that pairing in Walmart like, the other day, and I was HORRIFIED. BIg stacks of energy drinks mixed in with the games. And it's probably not the caffeine even that is the WORST thing.

Yea, anyway, you needed an eagle eye on him at meetings and I used to get assigned to watch him because like, I was pretty good at talking him down and the staff sort of recognized I had NO interest in being there. That coffee urn was like the Holy Grail to that dude.

My holy grail was getting out, I was SUPER ready to go on day one.

That guy was kind of a revolving door really, they didn't have anyplace to "put him exactly so he wound up spending a lot of time there.

Anna

 

[Fidola13]

He says that he is a recovered alcoholic and recovered drug user. So he is opposed to using anything that could be considered an addiction (ie nicotine). I've simply explained that I agree that nicotine is addictive, but as the title of this thread says, that addiction to nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine. He apparently doesn't understand the concept of "harm reduction" e-cigarette useage to help smokers to quit cigarettes. He cites his faith in God as his path to be drug free. I have no issues with that philosophy if it worked for HIM, but that pathway is not always the ONLY way for everyone else.

Attitudes like this are the reason I stopped going 12 step meetings. I use to call them AA Nazis. Very narrow minded about what they believe is acceptable for anyone else. I have no use for that crap in my life.

 

[stols001]

Yeah even baiting them is not really fun anymore.

But, you can find a 12 step group that DOES anything, there used to be one lot near me that demanded you get of all your antidepressants and stuff, and like indicated that the sponsor/sponsee relationship be like, male/female and sleeping with that person is good, etc. There were several suicides before they got shut down, etc.

But like, equally there are nice, kind and sane people in meetings you just have to find them and avoid/'amuse yourself with the rest.

My Very Favorite Thing to do in meetings with the AA Blowhards was to go to the part of the big book that contradicted what they were saying and "share" it.

LOL. They HATED it.

Know Your Damn Literature. Although to be fair, the concept of sponsorship in general was/is sort of hazy in the big book I mean the best you can find is the whole "trusted friend" bit to share your misdeeds with who most emphatically does not have to be an AA member.

But, it's a bit like well, going to church and insisting that Jesus was not the son of God but an emu called Fred. You just can't take such folks seriously.

If your friend relapses over the eicg comments, I say let him. I base that on the part of the big book that says, "If he remains unconvinced of the TRUTH of what we are saying, let such gentleman go out and try the experiment we have talked about, let him go out and try some CONTROLLED drinking for a period and in the majority of cases, he will return, tail between his legs, a sorrier but a wiser man." Etc.

Yup, in the old days they did not try to save you from relapse THEY encouraged you to freaking get it over with. If you died, oh well, if you learned something, great.

I'm kinda like that these days if some newcomer is all "I"mma gonna drink!' All dramatic, I'm like "Okay, shut up about it and go do it, would ja? I mean you've been talking about all day."

AA is not for those who want it. AA is not for those who NEED it even.

AA is for those who DO it. Period.

Anna

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Meetings are like a smorgasbord, listen to the good, leave the not as good alone...and have a conversation with your HP about those others, because maybe they are better than you think.

Thinking got me into some bad places, I now avoid it.

 

[Skeebo]

I can remember drug dealers being sent to rehabs in an effort to avoid jail time. Talk about a major fail.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I can remember drug dealers being sent to rehabs in an effort to avoid jail time. Talk about a major fail.

It's what happens when judges confuse themselves and begin to think they exist to be therapeutic.

 

[bobwho77]

Recently I was diagnosed with the big Type 2. I tend to geek out and read, read, read whenever my doctor says another old guy affliction is beginning.

Yeah, it's part age part mileage. Of course one of the things reccomended to halt is smoking. The carbon monoxide does all kinds of unfriendly things to happen to the organs over time. Well I checked off all those glucose issue causes like sweets, fatty foods, lack of excersize etc etc. Things got worse, not better.

I'm at the pre-Type 2 stage and since going on good behavior the numbers were getting worse. Still below the threshold most of the time, but insulin resistance seemed to be growing worse. What gives?

Nicotine. I looked up the side effects of nicotine and it seems that studies show a correlation between bouncing glucose and nicotine in many people like me. I behave all day, have good numbers all day but next morning at first check the number suggests one of two things.

I either went into a sugar coma during the night so my body ran up the amount to keep me alive (not likely) or...
My body is confused as to how much sugar to absorb. The tank sends out insulin to feed the cells requesting more. The cells don't recognize it's there and scream for more while resting.

Is nicotine a direct cause? Too soon to tell but it is a contributor. What is whacky is that often times smokers who quit (and didn't already have Type 2) develop Type 2 some 2 to 12 years after stopping. It seems depriving the body of nicotine can contribute to some developing Type 2 down the road.

None of the articles I read at the CDC, Web MD and several other sites mentioned how the person derived their nicotine. Being that vaping is still fairly new I figure they probably didn't take that into consideration.

Not trying to discount this whole 'nicotine is safe' thread. Just pointing out that it seems in some cases nicotine contributes to lack of glucose control issues.

You'd have to try comparing levels after vaping and after using a patch for 24-48 hours.
I'm not an expert in biochemistry, but my bet is that the VG, PG, or something in the flavorings we use expresses itself as sugar, causing blood glucose readings to rise.

 

[ScottP]

You'd have to try comparing levels after vaping and after using a patch for 24-48 hours.
I'm not an expert in biochemistry, but my bet is that the VG, PG, or something in the flavorings we use expresses itself as sugar, causing blood glucose readings to rise.

I would bet not. Your lungs don't function like a stomach.

 

[Baditude]

... remember nicotine is a stimulant. A calming stimulant.
Huh? Howz that work?

I'm not a pharmacist, but I have taken a few pharmacology classes as a PA and RN. I have also slept at a Howard Johnsons hotel.

Nicotine is classified as a stimulent just like caffeine. My thinking is nicotine works as a calming influence when the need for nicotine causes anxiety and when that need is satisfied by receiving more nicotine, the anxiety goes away.

There's a good reason why college students drink coffee and smoke cigarettes all night studying for exams. The two stimulents keeps one awake and focused to learn the material.

 

[ScottP]

I'm not a pharmacist, but I have taken a few pharmacology classes as a PA and RN. I have also slept at a Howard Johnsons hotel.

Nicotine is classified as a stimulent just like caffeine. My thinking is nicotine works as a calming influence when the need for nicotine causes anxiety and when that need is satisfied by receiving more nicotine, the anxiety goes away.

That is exactly it. Once the nicotine receptors in the brain become accustomed to having it, they get agitated and aggravated when they don't have it, leading the person to feel stressed and anxious. Once the nicotine is restored these receptors calm down and the person feels less stressed an anxious. It still stimulates the rest of the brain and can make it more difficult to fall asleep for some people.

 

[Eskie]

Nicotine can also have a calming effect even if you're not feeling anxious from not smoking. The neurochemistry isn't all clear as nicotinic reseptors are in multiple areas of the brain with each having disparate effects. I know when I've been in a stressful situation vaping more helps me calm down. Same when I smoked independent of wanting another cigarette.

Sure, as a stimulant in combination with caffeine it can be helpful in staying awake when working or studying, that's how I ended up stuck on cigarettes myself. I wasn't an underage smoker. I didn't start until my 20's.

Nicotine and caffeine are also good appetite suppressants, and it's not uncommon for some people to self "medicate" that way to avoid weight gain.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Using nicotine is common for people that are self-medicating for stress, or so I have read a few times.

They say that some nicotine is good. But, since it is addictive, it can be a slippery slope.

I used to tell my kids that to much of anything is not good.

They still gave me dirty looks when I gave them just one M&M.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Nicotine can also have a calming effect even if you're not feeling anxious from not smoking. The neurochemistry isn't all clear as nicotinic reseptors are in multiple areas of the brain with each having disparate effects. I know when I've been in a stressful situation vaping more helps me calm down. Same when I smoked independent of wanting another cigarette.

Sure, as a stimulant in combination with caffeine it can be helpful in staying awake when working or studying, that's how I ended up stuck on cigarettes myself. I wasn't an underage smoker. I didn't start until my 20's.

Nicotine and caffeine are also good appetite suppressants, and it's not uncommon for some people to self "medicate" that way to avoid weight gain.

Been an avid fan of coffee and tobacco all my life and fully agree with your first statement. Lattes as far back as I can remember. It's part of my bedtime ritual. For me the effect of tryptophan in the milk is far more effective in calming my system and assuring a quick transition to restful sleep.

If I could quit after decades in two days on a Blu, various methods and numerous attempts, the problem wasn't the nic but but the sum of the product I'd become accustomed to. A theory I had been extremely skeptical of but became evident reality. How do I know. Blu's couldn't effectively deliver enough nic. And existing devices as they were being used were lacking as well. No our compulsion I'm more convinced than ever was one of belief.

Good luck.

p.s. Our "addiction" began with external forces determined to describe it as such. Until then we had been happily using tobacco to fit in, have fun, enjoy our meals and company along with a good libation for the ritual.