No Sleep - OH having a rough battle - need some info links

[CreepyLady]

Morning to all,

My OH does not get involved in any of the researching or even understanding vaping and the actual concept of TOBACCO withdrawal.

He has kind of hit a pure meltdown point unfortunately - I did have some expectation this would happen, as he has been off cigarettes a bit less time than I, was a MUCH heavier smoker and has the ideal that many seem to have - that he should rapidly drop nicotine and toss vaping because THAT would = quitting.

I am running on pretty much no sleep do to aforementioned meltdown. I need links to properly sourced information on tobacco withdrawal. I have read through it more than once - but I cannot find it. He would like to read this to understand (FINALLY) the true battle he is really facing.

I am also looking for information (I think I can pull this part off CASAA) to help validate the fact that even just occasional hitting a higher nic juice is NOT a failure. Once he calmed enough to a somewhat human level I finally encouraged him to fill a spare tank with 18mg ( he is already rotating 6,3 and 0- no cigarettes for him for approx 5 weeks 2 PAD + smoker) I think he is crashing for two reasons and he is agreeing - after having some vapes at 18mg he did feel considerably less "loony" as he put it.

He seems to have the notion that many "non-vapers" do - that he is only addicted to nicotine and that dropping rapidly and casting aside vaping is what he is SUPPOSED to do to be a "success"

So - hit me- load me up with properly sourced info so I can pass it on to him. He WANTS to learn..finally.


PS- if there are typos, repeats or random nonsense- My apologies - sleep deprivation due to withdrawal meltdown all night - has lead to a true inability for my synapses to do much more than fizzle like dud fireworks.

 

[CreepyLady]

At work and brain dead - found this link it seems to have fairly valuable information will share for others.

Tobacco smoke, beta-carboline alkaloids, and reversible MAO inhibition

If anyone has any contributions for links or personal experiences - please share. He is open to understanding - so the help is both needed and appreciated.

Thanks and such

 

[degnr8]

Don't have to time to search it out right now but the american cancer society and american lung association should both have some good info for you. (ACS is still useful for something)

 

[CreepyLady]

Good call - will go there. At work with minimal brain function - I know I have some saved links but I CANT FIND

Was hoping for a long timer to have some right on hand. Thanks Degnr8

 

[Ben B Brown]

you could also try looking here

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...hen-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html

 

[djtonyb]

I can only relate my personal experience... have been smoke free for a little over a year now. The first month, I used 18mg and had insomnia, night sweats, and other weird withdrawl symptoms. I dropped down to 12mg without too much of a problem, and stayed there for about 10 months. It was enough to cut the craving, and I enjoyed vaping. I started to notice the nic affecting my sleep, and dropped down to 6mg just to see what would happen, and I noticed an improvement in sleeping, but a little more brain fog and memory problems... they've slowly resolved themselves. I may try 3mg at some point in the next couple of months... dropping too fast can set you back to square one smoking again. I just go at my own pace and will go back up in nic if needed, and I hope I'll get to zero nic, but that's not a goal I'm setting a time limit on. It's hard enough kicking the other stuff in cigs the first couple of months or so without having an unrealistic goal of going zero nic immediately. Best of luck to you and the OH!

 

[Hoosier]

I don't have any scientific evidence or papers, but I have seen many times over the years vapers dropping nicotine quickly, throwing away their vape hardware and end up smoking again. (I've seen it happen without throwing away their vape hardware too.)

Some folks can handle large nic drops without issues. I'm not one of those, neither is my sister, nor my oldest son. My oldest tried dropping nic content too quickly and ended up smoking for awhile before figuring out that he felt better vaping. He's had the most trouble dropping even 2mg/ml at a time. I know other examples....

 

[CreepyLady]

you could also try looking here

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...hen-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html

This is one I was looking for! I know I have it somewhere - THANK YOU!!!

 

[CreepyLady]

He had this whole "the nicotine is all that is addictive" attitude and now that he is truly experiencing all of this - he is getting that it really is much more. Keep it coming! I want to dose him up with all this good info while he is understanding and open.

I will say - although he had a horrid meltdown - he didn't smoke and refused to do so - that was MAJOR - I am pretty proud of him for that one

 

[Moedog]

This dude is setting himself up to go back on analogs, consciously or unconsciously. Myself, I just don't understand why some are so hot to get off nicotine. I enjoy it and plan to stay on 24 mgs indefinitely.

 

[CommaHolly]

oh the poor guy,,,,,,,,,

it took me a YEAR to drop the nic to 0,,,,,,and I STILL VAPE OMG NIC EVERY DAY!

 

[Ben B Brown]

I am now 4 months+ into vaping I started at 36mg nic each month I have dropped the nic level and have been vaping 4 mg nic this month 12 days now at the start of next month I plan on going to 0 nic but will keep some cartos filled with nic in different levels so they are easy to carry with me and if needed I will have a nic boost I will still vape but at 0 mg due to the fact that 1 I like the flavors 2 I still need have a addiction of the hand to mouth

 

[fourthrok]

I don't have any scientific evidence or papers, but I have seen many times over the years vapers dropping nicotine quickly, throwing away their vape hardware and end up smoking again. (I've seen it happen without throwing away their vape hardware too.)

Some folks can handle large nic drops without issues. I'm not one of those, neither is my sister, nor my oldest son. My oldest tried dropping nic content too quickly and ended up smoking for awhile before figuring out that he felt better vaping. He's had the most trouble dropping even 2mg/ml at a time. I know other examples....

This ^^^^ It's fine if one's goal is to get off nicotine/vaping/smoking completely. But GO SLOW...some people can handle the fast drop. Apparently the OH in question is not one of those people. I've been weaning down on my nic (from 24mg-18mg. originally) for over TWO YEARS. I've been going slow. The first year was pretty easy...I'd drop in small degrees as I felt my body could handle it (mixing different strength of same juice to lower nic). After just over a year I managed to get down to 3.5mg.....and I'm stuck now. And I've been stuck there for just about this entire year. I'm just not ready to move down yet. I can feel it. I don't consider it a "failure" at all. When I think I can make the move to 0 nic..or even just to 2mg....I will. And when I do get to 0 at whatever point I do, I still plan to use PVs to vape non-nicotine. For pleasure. What is wrong with having a bit of pleasure in one's life? As far as "harm"...vaping can't be any worse than breathing the pollutants in the air, drinking the pollutants in the water, or eating the insecticides and other chemical additives in our food. Ha. Might even be less risky!

 

[CreepyLady]

I am with ya Moedog - I am just glad he is finally seeing that BT and BP and their nasty chems are a part of this.

 

[glasseye]

At work and brain dead - found this link it seems to have fairly valuable information will share for others.

Tobacco smoke, beta-carboline alkaloids, and reversible MAO inhibition

If anyone has any contributions for links or personal experiences - please share. He is open to understanding - so the help is both needed and appreciated.

Thanks and such

I read all this stuff (and more) about 2 months after I quit cigs and started vaping, looking for a reason why I felt like...not me. I smoked a lot for a long time and something was missing. But I was still getting nic so that wasn't it. Anyway, I ran across some threads and info for WTA so I got some. I'm not recommending it, merely saying it helped me. I encourage you to do the research on it and make up your own mind, or his. lol
For a little while I was vaping a little every day. Now I still keep some 24mg WTA in a little clearo for a few quick puffs. I don't even use it every day (it's probably been over a week this time), my main vapes are between 12mg and 16mg, but I know it's there for when I get a bit frazzled with super cravings for a smoke. 11 months and it still happens. Grrr.
The vendors of it have some info on their website, Aroma Aroma Ejuice Manufacturer of WTA Whole Tobacco Alkaloid Eliquid and Whole-Cig WholeCig

 

[Debra_oh]

I hope he is weathering the storm ok today. The following speaks to other NRT's but many of the points are applicable to vaping I removed some points that don't apply). The bottom I tell people is to vape until you now longer feel any urge for a smoke and then to continue vaping for a few months longer. Most of us smoked for many years so if it takes a year of vaping to be done with the habit, so what.

Summary Statement to Consumers on Use of Nicotine Gum, Patch and Lozenge: Over-the-Counter Nicotine Replacement Therapies

1. NRT is one good tool to help you quit smoking. But NRT can’t do all the work for you—you have to help—and it is not the only tool to help you stop smoking.

2. Don’t worry about the safety of using NRT to stop smoking: NRT is a safe alternative to cigarettes for smokers.


4. NRT is less addictive than cigarettes and it is not creating a new addiction

5. Stop using NRT only when you feel very sure you can stay off cigarettes.

6. If the amounts of NRT you are taking do not help you stop smoking, talk with your health care provider about using (1) more NRT, (2) more than one type of NRT at the same time, (3) other smoking cessation medicines at the same time, or (4) telephone or in person advice on quitting tips.

7. If NRT helps you stop smoking, but you go back to smoking when you stop using NRT, you should seriously think about using NRT again the next time you try to stop smoking.


o Make sure you get the right amount of nicotine – people who smoke more than 10 cigarettes per day should use a 4mg piece of gum or lozenge.


o If you can’t stop having a few cigarettes while using the patch, it is best to keep the patch on. Don’t let a few slips with cigarettes stop you from using the patch to quit smoking.


10. If the price of NRT is a concern, try to find “store brand” (generic) NRT products which are often cheaper than the brand name products.

11. Do whatever it takes to get the job done—it is not a weakness to use medicine to stop smoking.

Adapted from: Kozlowski LT, .Giovino GA, Edwards B, DiFranza J, Foulds J, Hurt R, Niaura R, Sachs DPL., Selby P, Dollar KM., Bowen D Cummings KM, Counts M, Fox B, Sweanor D, Ahern F. Advice on using over-the-counter nicotine replacement therapy- patch, gum, or lozenge- to quit smoking. Addictive Behaviors (in press).

 

[CreepyLady]

I read all this stuff (and more) about 2 months after I quit cigs and started vaping, looking for a reason why I felt like...not me. I smoked a lot for a long time and something was missing. But I was still getting nic so that wasn't it. Anyway, I ran across some threads and info for WTA so I got some. I'm not recommending it, merely saying it helped me. I encourage you to do the research on it and make up your own mind, or his. lol
For a little while I was vaping a little every day. Now I still keep some 24mg WTA in a little clearo for a few quick puffs. I don't even use it every day (it's probably been over a week this time), my main vapes are between 12mg and 16mg, but I know it's there for when I get a bit frazzled with super cravings for a smoke. 11 months and it still happens. Grrr.
The vendors of it have some info on their website, Aroma Aroma Ejuice Manufacturer of WTA Whole Tobacco Alkaloid Eliquid and Whole-Cig WholeCig

I was actually thinking this or swedish snus. Thank you for the link - I will just go order now. LOL

 

[Daryl Glen]

Hey there Creepy!!
I don't have any scientific papers or documentation. I just have my personal story. As you know, I had a heart attack a little over a year and a half ago. The very next day after having a stent placed in my heart (at 38 years old) due to smoking, my cardiologist who performed the procedure, came in to check on me. The very FIRST question he asked me, is if I wanted a nicotine patch or some nicotine gum, since he knew I was a 2 pad smoker.
Less than 24 hours earlier, I was told that I had a 5% chance of making it through the night, and was told to "say what I wanted to say" to my family, as they loaded me into the helicopter to bring me to the hospital.

So.....there I was, in the hospital bed, being offered....NICOTINE!! So, all I can say is to tell him, that quitting smoking is not a "failure" if you still ingest nicotine for even a few years after quitting smoking. At my two week check-up after getting out of the hospital, my cardiologist RECOMMENDED vaping to me.
You have to crawl before you can walk.

And lastly, having a meltdown is far better than having a heart attack. Trust me on that one.
Hang in there. Stay strong.

 

[CreepyLady]

Hey there Creepy!!
I don't have any scientific papers or documentation. I just have my personal story. As you know, I had a heart attack a little over a year and a half ago. The very next day after having a stent placed in my heart (at 38 years old) due to smoking, my cardiologist who performed the procedure, came in to check on me. The very FIRST question he asked me, is if I wanted a nicotine patch or some nicotine gum, since he knew I was a 2 pad smoker.
Less than 24 hours earlier, I was told that I had a 5% chance of making it through the night, and was told to "say what I wanted to say" to my family, as they loaded me into the helicopter to bring me to the hospital.

So.....there I was, in the hospital bed, being offered....NICOTINE!! So, all I can say is to tell him, that quitting smoking is not a "failure" if you still ingest nicotine for even a few years after quitting smoking. At my two week check-up after getting out of the hospital, my cardiologist RECOMMENDED vaping to me.
You have to crawl before you can walk.

And lastly, having a meltdown is far better than having a heart attack. Trust me on that one.
Hang in there. Stay strong.

Thanks Daryl! I can relate. I was diagnosed with a heart condition (thankfully not caused by smoking, however smoking + heart problems - asking for trouble) So, that motivated us both to move to vaping - he just has this crazy idea that he should be able to quit in 5 minutes - 17 years of addiction conquered.

I got him on my 18mg Bobas Bounty and I just ordered him some WTA. I am so glad for all of the posts^^ I am going to have him read this thread when I get home. I keep trying to explain that he just needs to find his pace and stop being impatient. I mean sure it would be great if he could just stop and all - but that is rather unrealistic.

 

[degnr8]

Looks like you're getting some great info here lady. I understand his wanting to wean off of nic entirely, but see if you can get him to slow down on it. I'm at the other end of the spectrum myself. In four years I've gone from 50mg to 20 and don't plan on dropping again any time soon. I'll get to 0 eventually I'm sure but have no intention of quitting vaping. I enjoy it too much