noob ?s low ohms concerns

[ClippinWings]

I'm not trying to be "Anti-SLR" or something. It just seems easier to get within a standard ohm range by using more coil wraps and maybe a little thinner wire. You can make it as hot or cool as you like with VV. The more wraps increases the surface area.

This reminds me of the whole dual-coil thing. Cooler but more surface area. I understand that amp limits are a problem this way when you want to push the wattage.

See, you clearly do not understand...

I use 28 gauge wire... thicker than normal

I use 7 wraps... giving me 0.8 ohms

because the wire is thicker it does not get as hot... thinner wire gets hotter...

however, because it is such low resistance wire, i use 7 wraps around 6mm of silica... that's more surface area and more vapor... thinner wire would be up at like 2.0 ohm at that point and simply be ineffective on a 3.7v device... we'd be back to the VV mess of burnt juice.

It's very complicated and hard to explain to someone who hasn't tried it... you should go to a Brick and Mortar and find someone running a setup like i describe... and take a couple test puffs... it is mind boggling.

But...is it much different than what people get with DCC's and VV ?????

It is as different from VV and DCC as cig-a-likes are to Provaris

A four amp device at, say, 6.0 volts is 24 watts and well within the rage of many PVs with regulated circuits. How many watts does it take for SLR? And by that I mean...what is commonly done?

17 Watts is common... that's 0.8 ohms at 3.7 volts.

your 24 watts would fry juice

 

[AttyPops]

See, you clearly do not understand...

I use 28 gauge wire... thicker than normal

I use 7 wraps... giving me 0.8 ohms

because the wire is thicker it does not get as hot... thinner wire gets hotter...

however, because it is such low resistance wire, i use 7 wraps around 6mm of silica... that's more surface area and more vapor... thinner wire would be up at like 2.0 ohm at that point and simply be ineffective on a 3.7v device... we'd be back to the VV mess of burnt juice.

It's very complicated and hard to explain to someone who hasn't tried it... you should go to a Brick and Mortar and find someone running a setup like i describe... and take a couple test puffs... it is mind boggling.

It is as different from VV and DCC as cig-a-likes are to Provaris

I understand the electronics of it. What I don't understand is the vaping difference. Particularly when unregulated.

Should I just assume you guys are using all-mech unregulated stuff? So 3.6 or 3.7 volts for computation?

So .8 ohms at 3.7 volts = 17.1125 watts.

That's within specs for many regulated mods...if they don't think it's a short.

 

[aPandaz]

May I ask what voltage?

My batteries come off the charger at 4.18v and I usually swap them out at about 3.5v to 3.6v. My daily mech mod has a battery drop of .27v the last time I measured it.

 

[ClippinWings]

Should I just assume you guys are using all-mech unregulated stuff? So 3.6 or 3.7 volts for computation?

Yes, Mech.

4.2 off the charger
3.7 is done and needs charging

 

[NancyR]

yes full mechanical for me, I don't even own a vv device currently

 

[Daniel13]

this is why i gave up on it, although i enjoyed .8 ohms on a mech (with a vapesafe) but once it got down to 4 volts it was not that great, i switched over to a handmade box mod that can handle 6 amps and goes up to 8.4 volts so i built a 1.7 ohm coil and i'm working my way up as my wick breaks in, currently enjoying it at 6.5 volts at 24.8 watts and have the protection that a provari offers

 

[AttyPops]

this is why i gave up on it, although i enjoyed .8 ohms on a mech (with a vapesafe) but once it got down to 4 volts it was not that great, i switched over to a handmade box mod that can handle 6 amps and goes up to 8.4 volts so i built a 1.7 ohm coil and i'm working my way up as my wick breaks in, currently enjoying it at 6.5 volts at 24.8 watts and have the protection that a provari offers

Now THAT'S what I'm talk'n about! You rock. Makes more sense to me that way!

But I'm trying to be fair and ask about it.......

Also, you're staking batteries that way...so what's the max amps calc for stacking (assuming IMR)...???

 

[AttyPops]

...snip...
your 24 watts would fry juice

Not when I didn't state the ohms. It was referring to the work the battery device was capable of doing, not the load ohms or work performed at the coil (in that point).

 

[Daniel13]

Now THAT'S what I'm talk'n about! You rock. Makes more sense to me that way!

But I'm trying to be fair and ask about it.......

with that coil, once it breaks in, i can vape it at 41.5 watts and have short circuit protection and a long list of other things. and don't have to find a way to build a .4 ohm coil or worry about voltage drop because this thing only drops a tenth of a volt under load and it's vv

 

[Rader2146]

SLR vaping is not for the typical "noob", and not for some vets either. To vape at these power levels, a keen understanding of the electricity involved, and of the battery's capability is a MUST. It can be done very safely with specific batteries that are rated to safely discharge >6 amps (some up to 30 amps). The disturbing part of this trend is that there seems to be no limit to how much people will push the low resistance envelope.

It is hard for me to describe why one would want to vape <1.0Ω. I was happy with 2.0Ω cartos, and then 1.5Ω Vivi Novas, but now that I have a .8Ω and a .5Ω cotton wicked IGO-L.....I'm never going back to cartos or Vivi's. It's just a damn good vape.

 

[Sheila Michele 1971]

Also, you're staking batteries that way...so what's the max amps calc for stacking (assuming IMR)...???

Just reading thru this and just as an fyi, I NEVER stack batteries EVEN in a regulated device

 

[AttyPops]

SLR vaping is not for the typical "noob", and not for some vets either. To vape at these power levels, a keen understanding of the electricity involved, and of the battery's capability is a MUST. It can be done very safely with specific batteries that are rated to safely discharge >6 amps (some up to 30 amps). The disturbing part of this trend is that there seems to be no limit to how much people will push the low resistance envelope.

It is hard for me to describe why one would want to vape <1.0Ω. I was happy with 2.0Ω cartos, and then 1.5Ω Vivi Novas, but now that I have a .8Ω and a .5Ω cotton wicked IGO-L.....I'm never going back to cartos or Vivi's. It's just a damn good vape.

Thanks. That's part of the concerns I see here too. OTOH if it's that great...fine...as long as it's done properly. I think some info/guidelines on battery types, protection (if available/needed) and venting slots reminders are in order.

What's your take on upping the voltage and ohms to within protected device ranges like Daniel13?

 

[AttyPops]

Just reading thru this and just as an fyi, I NEVER stack batteries EVEN in a regulated device

I've been stacking protected batteries in regulated devices for almost 3 years with zero issues. (I do charge and rotate them in pairs. And check with a DMM).

 

[Christopher Horsley]

To the OP....

I would suggest that since you even call yourself a noob in the topic title...

DON'T even consider SLR vaping yet...
Go through the gamut, use the options available, read... watch videos, read some more...

Then decide if it's something you're interested in...

Look at it this way... Look at my signature, I didn't start SLR vaping until WELL after I had been vaping for a year...

Not until I was 100% sure that nothing else was satisfying and 100% confident I understood the risks and rewards.

I suggest doing the same.

This is pretty well my feelings on the matter as well, though i'm only 2 months in and using ego batteries and and commercially available supplies. I usually vape around 10 watts and it's perfectly fine for me, though i'm using 24mg nicotin, so that keeps me pretty satisfied.. I imagine when i start getting nearer the 10mg nicotin level i'll really start playing around with different setups, but as for right now there's absolutely no need to jump way ahead and skip out on all the noob type experiences. The journey is quite often just as good/better than the destination IMHO.

 

[Daniel13]

i must say, for me it's safety first, i've gotten over cigarettes already and at this point my addiction is minimal, i do however still enjoy exploring everything that vaping has to offer and i try to find the best way to do so, i've seen how easy rebuildables develop shorts and for me i don't trust them, when i'm at home i'll use them but when i'm out and about, it's carto tanks for me. i do understand the want for more power, but i don't understand the need

i think attypops makes some good points, there is nothing wrong with normal vaping (for me it's 2ohms at 4.4volts) that's my sweet spot and on rebuildables i have to more than double the wattage to be as satisfied

 

[Iusedtoanalog]

Hi All, I figured I would add my two pennies to the well of knowledge that is currently in flow .

So we have a fair debate here.
Our mech-mod users with a single battery and say an extreme .63Ω coil are going to be vaping at roughly 21.7 watts of output. Pretty high, and definately not capable(or at minimum not advisable at all) of being done with a basic battery but well within the c rating of most large batteries at 5.9 amperes of draw..... 3.7 is the voltage plateau of almost all batteries in this class and was used for refrence because of the discharge characterics of such batteries. Most vapers are aware of this and use batteries that are generally rated as 10c or higher to achieve some level of built in error compensation and hopefully safety. Ohm loads like these will clip a booster mod, and as such need a special device or a specifically designed device to accomplish this task.

So we also have a second contender here , the stacked battery mods. Yes we all know that this configuration is rather suspect on its own. Should never be done in a device Not designed to do so but there are designs in this class of device that can do this task as well. I frown on tube mods with the 18350 pairs, big no-no from my perspective. Lets put a low c rated battery in series in a metal tube and see what happens...... You guys who do this are begging for a visit to the trauma unit...... If your unit cant accept a pair of safely rated 10c or better batteries you should not be stacking them with harsh loads and no safety measures in place. You will one day exceed the rating of those cells and thermal runaway will destroy the batteries and anything nearby, hand/face etc.... Stacking batteries can be done in safer fashion. Plastic enclosure with proper ptc fusing and a buck chip to allow voltage regulation and adjustment as well as limits for the output amperage. So those of us with this type unit can adjust for say 6.4v on a 1.9Ω atty and vape at a very similar 21.6 watts with a current output of 3.3amperes... Sounds safer to me. Actually i am vaping those numbers as we speak. Have been all day. Oh and the current limit on my unit is 6amperes with a voltage limit of 6.6.... With ptc fusting at 8amperes and 10c rated batteries... There are ways to achieve the same results but lots of planning is required to be able to obtain said results.

I do use this mod every day. I do not normally vape at these levels all day. But I feel that if I want to do this, even for a short while, then I should weigh the risks and know fully what I am asking from my device. So should everyone who wants to run their device at these levels. Vape safe.

 

[AttyPops]

Iusedtoanalog...

They are talking about the surface area of the coil with SLR..and thick wire. And that it's different...even at the same wattage...than a thinner coil with more wraps. Since the coil doesn't heat 100% evenly, I can see that. But I just don't know if it matters enough.

I've wrapped my share of coils so far. I only have kanthal that goes down to 32 so I can't test well. I can run the 32 ga. But ...meh.

I used to use 3.0 ohm atomizers and 5 volts regulated (this is before the VV era) and it hit better than a cig. So...I don't really understand it, but I'm open.

I just think that you could up the voltage, rather than the amperage, even with the same coil...when using it in a safe stacked manner.
since P = V * I

They are lowering the ohms and using single battery voltage. Maybe that's best. Particularly with IMR. But there are regulated devices that can push the wattage too. I'm just wondering out loud...if that's better or worse. Since you could up the ohms (more wraps or maybe use 30 ga) and get within range where it is in "standard" LR ohm ranges.

I agree with your tube-mod comments in general. FYI - I use box mods.

 

[Rader2146]

What's your take on upping the voltage and ohms to within protected device ranges like Daniel13?

That all depends in the power. Most "off the shelf" APV's wont push past 15 watts. So for me, that eliminates everything except my home-built stuff. My OKR mod will do 36W. I have played with 1.5Ω @ 15-20W and it just wasn't the same. Slower response time, and more prone to burning. I'd attribute the burning to the 30g wire that I used instead of the 28g that I use for sub-Ω coils, but higher resistance requires more length or smaller gauge. I didnt have room for more length.

On the electrical side, you can easily get the exact same result for any proportional combination of ohm's law. On the thermodynamics side, there is much more at play and the results (from what I've experienced) are far from proportional.

 

[AttyPops]

...snip...
On the electrical side, you can easily get the exact same result for any proportional combination of ohm's law. On the thermodynamics side, there is much more at play and the results (from what I've experienced) are far from proportional.

That's what I suspected you'd say. Even that much difference with 30 ga compared to 28 ga? Wow. Although I'm surprised that the higher ohm, higher volt stuff had slower response time.

 

[ClippinWings]

Not when I didn't state the ohms. It was referring to the work the battery device was capable of doing, not the load ohms or work performed at the coil (in that point).

you didn't have to... you said 24 watts at 6v

That's a 1.5 Ohm Coil and you're burning juice.