North Dakota ballot initiative would ban smoking and e-cig use in all workplaces

[stevejo]

Got your e-mail as well Elaine, thanks so much! Doing some editing and I'll get it off this week, hopefully we can get a weekend printing from some of the papers.

 

[stevejo]

Just got some exposure up on Valley News:

Point of View: Don't Ban Electronic Cigarettes - Valley News Live - KVLY/KXJB - Fargo/Grand Forks

This is the NBC affiliate for Fargo and Grand Forks, and covers nearly 50% of the state.

 

[JENerationX]

Awesome! Good job getting some light on it. Shared.

 

[stevejo]

And a more comprehensive piece hit the Fargo Forum today:

E-cig science is sound | INFORUM | Fargo, ND

 

[TennDave]

Great piece!! I'm just curious how a 25 year study on vapor was conducted (with incorrect results) when e-cigs haven't been in existence except 4 or 5 years?

 

[Fiamma]

Great piece!! I'm just curious how a 25 year study on vapor was conducted (with incorrect results) when e-cigs haven't been in existence except 4 or 5 years?

You might want to re read that. The quoted comment was that NO 25 year study had been made.

The author is speaking to the GRAS re PG/VG and referring to the Clearsteam data in this article.

 

[TennDave]

You might want to re read that. The quoted comment was that NO 25 year study had been made.

The author is speaking to the GRAS re PG/VG and referring to the Clearsteam data in this article.

Thanks for the clarification- my misunderstanding, obviously...

 

[stevejo]

Great piece!! I'm just curious how a 25 year study on vapor was conducted (with incorrect results) when e-cigs haven't been in existence except 4 or 5 years?

You might want to re read that. The quoted comment was that NO 25 year study had been made.

The author is speaking to the GRAS re PG/VG and referring to the Clearsteam data in this article.

Yeah, the piece being rebutted stated that "when there has been an independent study of 25 years" regarding the safety of vapor, she would be in favor of allowing them in public. Her comparison was to things like Asbestos, and it's prolific use prior to the discovery that it caused mesothelioma.

 

[TennDave]

Let's see...400,000 deaths in a year...multiply that by 25 years...hmm, what's that, like 10 million deaths that can be prevented that won't be (if you go by her logic)....oh, and this doesn't include the growing population... At least this is just in the U.S. and we all know that other countries watch and follow the U.S. and it's health decisions, so much MUCH more than the 10M if you consider all of the other countries that follow suite. It's amazing that one person has the opportunity to "grasp" something very simple like this and turn things around that can literally impact HUGE numbers of lives. I personally don't know how anyone sleeps at night knowing what they know.

IDEAS!! What we need is an "Insider Whistle Blower" in the FDA and ALA or other large organizations like them to finally come out and tell the TRUTH....Could you imagine if they came out with their news on a major news network (live TV)...what a huge impact they could have??? Another idea is barraging this lady with letters stating how she is going to responsible for the death of millions....nah...but was a thought anyway...

 

[VapApe]

Darn it I have to give credit were credit is do.
It takes talent to talk out of both sides of your mouth and your back side at the same time.
An man this lady has talent.

 

[stevejo]

Here she is further abusing that talent...

Nothing is at all safe about e-cigarettes | INFORUM | Fargo, ND

I'll quote it here as the forum archives and charges for articles when they get a few days old:

My thanks to Steve Johnson, owner of SnG Vapor of Grand Forks, for pointing out the safety of water, vegetable glycerin, flavorings and propylene glycol in e-cigarette vapors. The studies he cited look legitimate, and I’ll concede the point – the inert ingredients in e-cig vapor are scientifically tested and shown to be safe.

Of course, there is no study that shows what a safe level of nicotine is and, personally, I don’t believe there is one. Nicotine is a poison that has been used as both an insecticide and herbicide. Pure nicotine is deadlier than rattlesnake venom, arsenic or strychnine. This stuff is so toxic that spilling a small amount onto your bare skin can be fatal. It’s a powerful carcinogen linked to millions of deaths.

There’s no evidence that years of exposure to the miniscule amount of nicotine particulate exhaled with e-vapor won’t contribute to health problems in the future, either when it is inhaled as secondhand vapor or when it collects in trace amounts on walls and furniture to later be absorbed through the skin of a person touching it. No credible, reputable scientific body has weighed in on whether e-vapor is safe, but reputable entities have said that e-cigarettes aren’t safe. The Food and Drug Administration, Mayo Clinic and World Health Organization have issued warnings against them. Canada has banned them outright.

I support the proposed law to prohibit smoking including e-cigs in public places and most places of employment in this state.

 

[TennDave]

Wow- a bunch of lies or still being misinformed? We all know that the tar is responsible for anything sticking to curtains, furniture etc...and that nicotine that is exhaled form e-cigs is so minuscule it has be measured in the parts per billion. Besides, that, the claim that nicotine is carcinogenic is a lie. I believe there are studies to substantiate every point here that I could go look up and post about as a response. Unfortunately I see no place to respond to that article: Nothing is at all safe about e-cigarettes | INFORUM | Fargo, ND

 

[yuttynutt]

According to the news article at
UPDATED: Anti-tobacco group to push ND indoor smoking ban | INFORUM | Fargo, ND



There's also an editorial about this measure at
Forum editorial: Smoking measure a good bet | INFORUM | Fargo, ND

It would be helpful if someone obtained and posted that ND ballot initiative.

Ouch this is the state I work in I drive truck to Bismarck every night. You probably have to be a ND resident to have any say in this don't you? If it happens then MT will be next, this is getting too close to home.

 

[JENerationX]

I don't see anywhere to comment on it.

 

[DC2]

Nicotine is a poison that has been used as both an insecticide and herbicide. Pure nicotine is deadlier than rattlesnake venom, arsenic or strychnine. This stuff is so toxic that spilling a small amount onto your bare skin can be fatal.

The "poison" argument is a red herring, which can easily be destroyed by the fact that the dose makes the poison.

I imagine you might have to be trapped in a 7" cube, with 10 vapers and no ventilation, for over 24 hours to get the amount of nicotine in a tomato.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you would run out of oxygen and die before you would get the amount of nicotine in a tomato.

Of course, those aren't the exact numbers but you get the idea, and I'm sure the information from the Clearstream study can be used to figure them out.

And I imagine a person would have to be trapped in that same 7" cube with 15 million vapers for 20 years to approach a lethal dose.
In other words, it's not even remotely possible.

It’s a powerful carcinogen linked to millions of deaths.

Not only is nicotine NOT a powerful carcinogen, it is not a carcinogen at all.

The Food and Drug Administration, Mayo Clinic and World Health Organization have issued warnings against them.

Logical fallacy called Appeal to Authority.

Unfortunately, the only way to fight this crap is for the public to learn the truth.
Good luck with that one.


I guess you could point out that the FDA lost their court case when trying to ban electronic cigarettes.
And they lost because they could produce no proof whatsoever that electronic cigarettes had ever harmed a single person.

Canada has banned them outright.

Another Appeal to Authority, which neglects to point out that they did so for no valid reason whatsoever.
They did it because the FDA said electronic cigarettes were scary things that go bump in the night.

If this stuff doesn't piss you off, you're dead inside.

 

[samuelmunro]

"Nothing is at all safe about e-cigarettes" - a rebuttal - Blog - a UK perspective

 

[Vocalek]

Well worth reading, Sam, and excellent analysis. I shared to my Facebook account.

 

[Vocalek]

Steve: I just submitted a Letter to the Editor addressing her concerns.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Public News Service ND publishes biased article advocating Measure 4 (to ban smoking and e-cig use in all workplaces in North Dakota, as well as outdoors within 20 feet of building entrances).
All North Dakota Workplaces Could be Smoke-Free by Christmas

American Heart Association volunteer claims Measure 4 will improve health (by banning smoking in about a hundred workplaces), but fails to mention that Measure 4 would discourage smokers from quitting (and thus threaten public health) by banning e-cigarette use in about a hundred thousand workplaces in ND (as well as outdoors within 20 feet of building entrances).

And of course, no mention that e-cigarettes don't emit any smoke, that e-cigarette vapor has never harmed any nonuser, and/or that it is impossible for the state (even if it spent millions of taxpayers dollars) to enforce an e-cigarette usage ban.

 

[Placebo Effect]

Aside from the absurdity of banning e-cigarette use, the language of the ballot measure is unnecessarily cruel considering how ungodly North Dakota's winters are. The measure bans partially enclosed smoker booths (i.e., three walled structures that only smokers go into and may be heated in some way), which as far as I know are already installed in hundreds or thousands of places in the state.