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Nose/nasal passage problems

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by yzer, Jul 26, 2012.

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  1. yzer

    yzer Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Nov 23, 2011
    Northern California
    I usually vape 2-3 ml per day of 24 mg juice. I don’t know for certain but I believe the juice I use is mostly or all propylene glycol. I’ve been vaping since October of last year and have been cigarette free for the last three months. My technique always includes exhaling slowly through the nose without inhaling to the lungs.

    Since I started vaping I had a half dozen or more incidences of inflamed nasal passages. These result in swollen or puffy areas on the face near the nose or below the eyes. Sometimes it looks like a baggy eye. My voice box can get dry and hoarse on occasion. All of these problems clear up after a couple of days so I figured they might go away, eventually.

    I drink plenty of fluids: about 72 fl. oz. of diet cola per day (not enough caffeine to cause dehydration) in addition to several glasses of water per day.

    About a week ago I noticed that the inside of my nose was feeling and looking dry along the right nostril. Yes, I looked up there with a flashlight.

    Yesterday afternoon things really hit the fan. I got four raised, inflamed, angry looking red bumps inside the right nostril. This was a very painful and sore situation. I cut down the vaping to a bare minimum for the rest of the day.

    Why only the right nostril? I don’t know, except that airflow on the right side is less than on the left due to a broken nose I suffered many years ago.

    Things have improved today. I’m vaping about one half of my usual amount of juice so I'm a bit cranky. I’m not exhaling through the nose at all. I’m either holding the vapor in my mouth or inhaling to the lungs before exhaling through the mouth. Swelling inside the nostril is going down and the redness is much reduced. I went to the drugstore and purchased some saline nasal spray. I used that several times today. It seems to produce immediate relief from the dryness.

    I went online and ordered some new juice from Xtreme Vaping. I ordered 25 mg nicotine in two bottles: one is 50/50 PG/VG and the other is 100% VG. Both are unflavored just in case my problem is a reaction to flavor additives. I also ordered two graduated cylinders from an Amazon lab equipment vendor so I can do some nicotine reduction with VG if needed. I have a fresh bottle of glycerine USP at home.

    It will be a few days before the new juices arrive.

    Anyone had similar problems? Any suggestions?
  2. base234

    base234 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 4, 2011
    Over the edge...
    Sorry to hear about your troubles. Yeah, I vaped high PG juices for about six months when the itching started. Mouth, nose, throat, skin,etc. something awful. Someone suggested trying VG juices and I'm at 100% VG most of the time. Kinda limits my choice of juices, but I'm not complaining. Every now and then, I've just got to try some of my old PG juices like Sweet Caroline (best flavor on the planet, I swear!) and the itching comes back. Good luck and I hope something works for you.
  3. DantesInferno

    DantesInferno Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 22, 2012
    Central Illinois
    Ya give up the pg and ur problems will prolly go away. I'm another that can't tolerate pg. vg don't bother me at all.
  4. Racehorse

    Racehorse ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2012
    USA midwest

    I've also heard a lot about PG causing sore gums, roof of mouth, and canker sores, etc. However, I'm wondering about something.............

    I am under the care of a specialist (oral) right now for dry mouth (which I already had and has nothing to do with vaping.) as well as some periodontal problems.

    The newest remedy for this is BIOTENE. It comes in toothpaste, mouthwash, and gel.

    Guess what the 2nd ingredient after water is? propylene glycol

    I have also looked at many other gum disease, periodontal type RXs and they also contain this ingredient at the very top.

    If you go into the drugstore and start looking at other mouthwashes, many of them also contain this.

    I am wondering if it's actually NOT the ingredient itself, (PG) but the change of properties when it is "heated and vaporized" that changes something, that makes it different than cold mouthwash.

    One way to do this experiment is to stop vaping PG but use PG laden mouthwash, and see if the problem repeats. If not, then it must have something to do with the heating of it in vapor form?

    I'm going to talk to some oral surgeon's, prosthodontists, and periodontists about this ingredient.

    Seems strrange that the very thing that is prescribed to treat gum problems would actually cause gum problems, canker sores, in some people. I guess I would also have to find out how often their patients actually show reactions to cold PG.

    For instance, Dantes Inferno: do you exhibit same symptoms using PG mouthwash? I'd be curious to know
  5. DantesInferno

    DantesInferno Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 22, 2012
    Central Illinois
    Yes I'm guessing it's the inhaled form that causes problems for me. I've used biotene before as well. Also pg is nearly everywhere in cosmetic and medical products. .......
    Inhalation of the propylene glycol vapors appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that inhalation of propylene glycol mists could be irritating to some individuals.[19] Some research has suggested that propylene glycol not be used in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with the spray mists of these materials is likely, such as fogs for theatrical productions or antifreeze solutions for emergency eye wash stations.[20]

    I nearly stopped vaping a few years ago due to the pg. I wasn't as aware at the time exactly what the problem was. All I knew was I started vaping and all of a sudden I had a sore throat, full sinuses, and constant headaches. After trying vg liquid the problems soon went away. Over the years I've tried adding more pg to my liquids to see how it went. I've found I can tolerate up to a 40% pg without any immediate problems.
  6. HawkeyeFLA

    HawkeyeFLA Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 2, 2012
    Clermont, FL
    When I switched to vaping, I had a lot of dry nose issues. To the point of causing some minor nose bleeds. I picked up some of this and use it at least once a day or every other day ... problems went away.

    • Like Like x 1
  7. CommaHolly

    CommaHolly Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2012
    Plant City, FL
    as much as I hate to say this,,,,,,,,it might be the nicotine too. I had HUGE problems with burning, dry, itchy nose until I figured out it was any nicotine lever OVER 11. Yep, 14, 16, 18+ and I'm itching and snuffing and BURNING inside my nose,,,,,I go 11 or below, not a problem in the world.
  8. HawkeyeFLA

    HawkeyeFLA Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 2, 2012
    Clermont, FL
    While I never paid much attention to my exhale when I was smoking, for some reason I started watching when I vaped. A good bit of the exhaled vapor leaves my nose in addition to my mouth. Being as the bases of the vapor are dehydrating, I can see where this could cause issues in the nasal sinus region. But again, once I started using that saline spray at least semi regularly, my issues have subsided.
  9. jjcordone

    jjcordone Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 29, 2011
    Rhode Island
    I've seen a lot of posts with people thinking they have either an allergy to PG or an allergy to VG.
    It makes me wonder if the bad reactions are really from the flavorings and not from the base liquids.
    I'm far from being an expert, but it seems to me the flavor additives might be the more likely culprit to cause an irritation.
    Yesterday I saw a post from someone that traced a shortness of breath issue back to flavorings through trial and error.
    I know it sounds boring, but try straight VG or PG with your usual nic level and see if it makes a difference.
    Small bottles of this are available at a low cost at a ton of places.
  10. ShogaNinja

    ShogaNinja Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2012
    I've also had recurring sinus issues and I take claritin and diphenhydramine (benadryl) for it. I also been getting some dry boogie situations (saline nasal spray and a good nose blowing fixes that - don't pick!). I vape 70/30 pg/vg. When I tried to go to 60/40 pg/vg I already noticed huge wicking issues and the opposite of all I have been told came true. The flavor improved when it was wicking right. Common belief holds that PG helps flavor, and VG helps vapor production. I don't really have any answers for you because I still don't know how to fix my own problem but what I can do is give you some advice. If you go with anything higher in vg than 70/30 pg/vg you really need to thin the VG out with PGA (pure grain alcohol) or distilled water if you want any sort of proper performance. At least that has been my experience so far with Stardusts. With a carto I can go up to 60/40 but past that is sketchy. I haven't tried thinning yet because I drank the last bottle of everclear that I bought for that.... but that's another story for another time.... :)

    When discussing this problem with a good vaper friend of mine she suggested to use a product called XLear. It's like 8 bucks a bottle and I haven't gotten a chance to get my hands on it but she swears by it.
  11. Fiamma

    Fiamma Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2012
    So Calif
    When I was still smoking I had constant sinus problems. Plugging up, often infecting, always uncomfortable.

    Now my sinuses tend to drip a bit but never plug up. I have had some buildup in my nostrils (I both inhale and exhale through my nose off and on) of PG/VG unsure which, it tends to attach to the wall of the passage. Saline spray and blowing helps that, also helps if my nose gets too dry (resulting in nosebleeds).

    Even after all this time off stinkies I can still find changes going on in my system as it clears out the crud and adapts to its new reality.
  12. Jessica PB

    Jessica PB Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 3, 2012
    Chicago area
    The reality is that soda is just not good for keeping hydrated. up your water and use a nasal spray. Between the two you'll most likely see the situation resolved.
  13. Wishdog

    Wishdog Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2012
    Hazel Green
    My thoughts.

    • Nasal Spray
    • Doctor on Monday if it persists
    • You should never just have two points in a bulleted list.

    That's an old wive's tale. If there is a difference between water and soda liquid consumption, it can't be more than a 10% difference. So have another gulp, fill that glass slightly higher.
  14. dragonrage

    dragonrage Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2012
    melrose fl
    That's an old wive's tale. If there is a difference between water and soda liquid consumption, it can't be more than a 10% difference. So have another gulp, fill that glass slightly higher.[/QUOTE]

    i will say different i get checked to see how hydrated i am 2 time a week because i donate plasma and when i drink soda i will be more dehydrated then if i just drink water. i drink 6L of soda a day but the days before i go to donate i drink water and gatorade
  15. Wishdog

    Wishdog Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2012
    Hazel Green
    Via the Mayo Clinic...

    As for the carbonation, it's gone almost instantly. If it didn't leave the liquid you'd not feel any fizziness. The sodium content is minimal, and if it wasn't then eating anything with a sodium content would be much worse.

    If caffiene itself was a diuretic, and the effect of a 12 oz soda was negated by the 18 or so mg in it. Then drinking a regular coffee with 100mg would suck two quarts of liquid from your body.

    What part of a soda would dehydrate you?
  16. dragonrage

    dragonrage Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2012
    melrose fl
    well i use what works for me and soda makes me less hydrated. i bet if most would know how hydrated they where they would drink more often. i know that after stopping analog i need to drink less than i did before and haven't done a test to see if i will be hydrated or not after my stop on analog. might test next week
  17. yzer

    yzer Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Nov 23, 2011
    Northern California
    Thanks for the suggestions and experiences. The nose is significantly improved today. I'm still vaping about half of my usual amount, not exhaling through the nose and using the saline spray several times a day.

    Wishdog, you are reading my mind. I'm calling the Dr. on Monday if things aren't much better.

    Funny, but I've never had sinus infections or serious sinus or nose problems before, even when I smoked.

    It is the caffeine in sodas that causes dehydration. However, a person needs to drink at least a dozen 12 oz. sodas per day before the caffeine causes some dehydration. Coffee will do the same thing at more than 6-7 cups per day.

    When the new juices arrive I'll try the unflavored 100% VG first and see what happens. I use Smoktech LR XL cartos only. Hope I don't have trouble using the straight VG with these cartos. I'll allow extra soaking time before use. I'm very good at filling cartos with the drip method. I haven't burned a carto since my first month of vaping.
  18. Ralikar

    Ralikar Moved On ECF Veteran

    Jul 7, 2011
    1) PG/VG as posted or

    2) Flavors and juice quality!!! I vaped tobacco cartos no problem but when I went to flavors--fruit/coffee--Bloog/V4L?cool carts they ripped up my throat and sinuses. As in some blood in the kleexex. I blamed my body changing. I wanted to get away from Chinese juice for overall QC and got some Johnson Creek--it was a blessing. My sinus/throat problems were gone in an hour. Now I'm DIY it from Capellas (less chemically/perfumey) and it's still great. My nose and throat react poorly to chemical type flavors. So if it's not the PG (JC is really high PG and that doesn't bother me) then it's the flavors or overall quality of the nic/your juice company.
  19. Dauslyn

    Dauslyn Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 20, 2011
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    You need to invert those habits. While it might not be contributing to your nasal issues, that amount of soda will kill you faster than analogues. If you're only drinking a couple of glasses of water per day, irrespective of the amount of soda/coffee you're drinking, you're walking around dehydrated 100% of the time.

    We've surely all seen the pictures, but just for shock value:

    Now because you're drinking diet, you can replace that sugar with deadly aspertame! Widely considered the single most dangerous food additive on the market today! yay!

    Sort of off-topic, so my apologies. But I guarantee you, you are dehydrated. Whether this helps your problem or not, I do not know. Hope things start looking up for ya friend.
  20. Dauslyn

    Dauslyn Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 20, 2011
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    You're right, for the most part soda doesn't dehydrate you, but it also does a very poor job of hydrating. If you're already drinking 64 oz of water a day, then you're probably fine from a hydration perspective in drinking soda (barring the fact that it's literally a poison). If your water intake is low (a couple of glasses a day), then I'm sure soda is not going to bridge the gap, and will only make things worse.
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