OFFICIAL: CyrstalClearVaping Information Thread..

[caffeinator]

I've seen posts of peeps using the 1.7 LR Resurrectors on the Ovale v8 I'm getting soon...even posted pics. It's also a 3-6v, stacked-batt 18350, PWM and VV device with what the manual calls "overheat protection"...lol.

I know I could get a vtube, vmax or LT for about the same price (for a kit, it's only $30 standalone) , but damn if I don't love the form factor and it comes in a rubberized black that is sooo sexy. I don't need another flashlight.

Variable voltage from 3.0v-6.0v one step 0.1v
Takes 2 18350 batteries

So, is there just a wattage difference between the vtube/lavatube/vmax devices and the OvaleV8 or ????

Just wondering, I won't get mine for a week yet, so be good to know.

(Lord Davon likes it, check his YT review)

 

[VapingTurtle]

...
So, is there just a wattage difference between the vtube/lavatube/vmax devices and the OvaleV8 or ????

???

Power(watts) = Energy(volts)² / Resistance(ohms)

The wattage is just a function of volts and resistance; nothing to do with the device. Any device produces the same power (watts) given the same voltage and resistance.

The heat perceived by the user, the amount of vapor, and the flavor of the vape is more that just the wattage produced by the device. It is as least as much influenced by the design of the atty/carto. Where is the coil? What surrounds the coil? How is juice fed to vicinity of the coil? What material is the wick? How thick is the wick? What size and shape is the coil? And on and on...

And PWM does not affect how hot the coil gets (in our PVs application of PWM). The pulse frequency FAR, FAR outdistances the time required for the heating element to heat up and cool off. A pulsed current acts exactly the same as a constant current as far as the heating element is concerned (assuming a properly implemented PWM).

 

[caffeinator]

???

Power(watts) = Energy(volts)² / Resistance(ohms)

The wattage is just a function of volts and resistance; nothing to do with the device. Any device produces the same power (watts) given the same voltage and resistance.

The heat perceived by the user, the amount of vapor, and the flavor of the vape is more that just the wattage produced by the device. It is as least as much influenced by the design of the atty/carto. Where is the coil? What surrounds the coil? How is juice fed to vicinity of the coil? What material is the wick? How thick is the wick? What size and shape is the coil? And on and on...

And PWM does not affect how hot the coil gets (in our PVs application of PWM). The pulse frequency FAR, FAR outdistances the time required for the heating element to heat up and cool off. A pulsed current acts exactly the same as a constant current as far as the heating element is concerned (assuming a properly implemented PWM).

I know Ohms law, that isn't the question I had.

What I don't know is how the Pulse Modulation effects things vape-wise. Everyone I know that has used a Ovale V8 says it hits wayyyy harder than it should...not a particularly bad thing though. Check the reviews.

I just wonder, between a vtube or lavatube or whatever they call it this week...and the OvaleV8....which would be better and why? I don't know what chip the Ovale uses, but whatever it does use, it pumps serious vaping power out using PWM and two stacked 18350's. It's tiny compared to a LT, yet it seems to have equal if not greater power.

No, I'm not gonan drag out a calculator and figure out the power ratios. I just wonder why similar devices can be so different? There is virtually no technical info on the OvaleV8...I want some.

Mebbe I should just discuss this elsewhere...not the right forum for it.

 

[VapingTurtle]

...
What I don't know is how the Pulse Modulation effects things vape-wise. Everyone I know that has used a Ovale V8 says it hits wayyyy harder than it should...not a particularly bad thing though. Check the reviews.

I just wonder, between a vtube or lavatube or whatever they call it....which would be better and why? I don't know what chip the Ovale uses, btu whatever it does use, it pumps serious power out using the PWM and two stacked 18350's.

If it hits harder than it should (as the Ovale and the VMAX are reputed to do), it is possibly an inaccurate implementation of the PWM voltage regulation. Gotta scope?

 

[caffeinator]

If it hits harder than it should (as the Ovale and the VMAX are reputed to do), it is possibly an inaccurate implementation of the PWM voltage regulation. Gotta scope?

I have a digital VOM, but no scope. I can't afford to buy more than one device anyway to test...thus my questions. ;-)

What I'd like to see, and so far haven't seen, is a straight-up test between say a Ovale V8, a Vmax and/or a regular LT and a Provari since it seems to be the standard. IIRC, they all use PWM don't they? I think they all do similar VV voltages too, though with different batts...could be wrong there.

 

[orachel]

I dunno nothing about the math, but something about those ovales is just HOT. They seem to be accurate voltage wise, which is why its such a surprise to me. I don't quite know what other factors go into such a hot vape, or what affects that, but it id definitely the case. My v6 ovale aka gripper is the same. Does 3.7, 5, 6v and the 3.7 on that is the most intense 3.7v vape on earth. I've compared it to 5 other 3.7v devices, with same carto/same juice/same voltage, and its just way way hotter and more intense with the ovale. I often vape at 5 or 6v with something like a tox or lavatube, and just can't handle em on the v6... wonder what it is about the ovale specifically?

 

[VapingTurtle]

... They seem to be accurate voltage wise, which is why its such a surprise to me. I don't quite know what other factors go into such a hot vape, or what affects that, but it id definitely the case.

Did you measure the voltage? I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any other factors. The PV is just supplying the current required by the atty/carto, nothing more.

 

[caffeinator]

I dunno nothing about the math, but something about those ovales is just HOT. They seem to be accurate voltage wise, which is why its such a surprise to me. I don't quite know what other factors go into such a hot vape, or what affects that, but it id definitely the case. My v6 ovale aka gripper is the same. Does 3.7, 5, 6v and the 3.7 on that is the most intense 3.7v vape on earth. I've compared it to 5 other 3.7v devices, with same carto/same juice/same voltage, and its just way way hotter and more intense with the ovale. I often vape at 5 or 6v with something like a tox or lavatube, and just can't handle em on the v6... wonder what it is about the ovale specifically?

Thanks for that, I don't have the cash to get the various devices to compare...it's nice to see data from others.

Did you measure the voltage? I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any other factors. The PV is just supplying the current required by the atty/carto, nothing more.

That is where I think something else is happening. If you can slap a Boge 3.0 on a Ovale V8 at 3.7 and the same on a Provari or LT and get vastly different results, the question is why?

I think Lord Davon answered it in part in his review....the pulses got from max to zero on his 'scope, a square wave right? The Ovale is not like a Provari in it's constant flow design...it rips ya head off all the time. As a 25-year smoker and most of that being bareass RYO's, I like that idea.

Does the Ovale V8 weaken over time though? IDK if it has the voltage regulation the Provari has in that regard. Lotta stuff to consider here in chip software, not just old skool ohms and volts.

I am gonna get an Ovale V8, the question to me is, if I do, would anything else be needed at all? I want it for it's form but also that I'm a nub starting from a 3.7 @ 1050mAh device...and want more power as well as VV choices. And, for the money, I don't think I can do better than the Ovale.

 

[VAPNJ350]

But, Jeremy, the VTube (LT) 1.5/1.5t and probably the 2.0 coming Monday all use PWM. As does the Joye eGo 3.4volt. And plenty of other VV APVs, like the Evercool mods. How does the VMAX's PWM differ? Why is it reputed to be so much hotter?

Bare with me on this PWM is NOT the easiest to explain to someone who hasn't had atleast a few lectures on the subject,(technical IT schooling, college courses etc..) So I may throw a ""ANALOGY"" in here to help me explain, I hope this is easy to understand. NONE OF THIS IS ACCURATE DATA, JUST PURE HYPOTHETICAL TO HELP ILLUSTRATE HOW PWM WORKS.
Ok, with typical PWM (pulse with modulation) the atty/carto (the COIL) is seeing a pulsation of voltages in miliseconds almost nanoseconds it's that fast. This technique in circuitry aids in battery longevity among many other aspects. Here comes the analogy, now Please keep this in mind, these numbers Im about to throw out will not make sense applying ohms law or probably even basic math,"this is solely for demonstration and analogy"

Lets keep the voltage on the VMAX at 4 volts. The PWM in "most" units will only allow the coil to see 4V max to the coil but also dipping below 4v down to 3v maybe even 2.5v. The coil sees and is exposed to this range of voltages hypothetically 100 times a second. But the highest voltage the coil will see is the actual voltage that the device is set at (4V in this case)

Now the VMAX, this is where I may lose some folks.... Same situation "4v". Now the VMAX is set at 4v output, on this device they have the PWM setup very different which everyone who owns one now is absolutely lovin it. Where every other device will only see the max voltage set to output(4v) the VMAX allows it to see a much higher voltage, in the V1 VMAX they had the PWM set so that the coil would see the max battery voltage in those miliseconds even at 4v setting. But they adjusted how long and how many times the coil actually was exposed to that high voltage so the AVerage voltage was still showing a very solid 4v with little to NO underload drop with any atty attached. When the batteries have a max voltage combined of 8.4v you can kinda start to imagine now why you don't have to push the VMAX very high at all to get a very nice outcome while saving and expanding your battery life while using lower voltages than normal with a lot less drain and draw on them. Now where the coil was seeing the 8.4v max (whatever the max battery voltage is at the time) in those short miliseconds it also sees down to 2.9v but still getting a voltage average of 4v.

Now the V2 VMAX, FYI, the reason Im able to explain this a bit better is because I've done extremely thorough tests on my LeCroy 312-A 100 mHz Wavejet Oscilloscope which leaves NO stone unturned and is very very sophisticated in how it gets it's "true" readings. Ok the V2.....the V2 uses the same PWM, just fine tuned just a bit. Instead of the coil seeing the Max battery voltage they down tuned it just a bit. Instead of it using the max voltage , now it's about 1.75 volts less than whatever the max battery voltage is. And still dropping down to a 2.9v for the low side of the PWM, and using every voltage at the perfect milisecond for the perfect duration of time at that voltage to still get a 4v average overall.

To my knowledge their is NO OTHER DEVICE that uses PWM the way the VMAX does, until you own one you really can't understand why it's so different and soo powerful. Believe me when I heard Smoktech made a VV device that was supposed to be this "end all" type unit, I wanted nothing more but to get 1 on my equipment and really test it in ways they probably didn't. And I did, over and over, I've put this device thru torture tests. Ending result.... I have 2 now, and every other device I own is in a padded shoebox in my closet, all except my new 14650 Epower for movies and restaurant outings. The VMAX has literally destroyed any and every thought or craving to find the next (better) mod/device. THIS ""IS"" MY DEVICE !!! I don't feel any need to waste another penny on another device, this is it. Im not a collector, and to be honest I never understood collecting mods. One of the main reasons I quit smoking was due to the price increase of tabacco, not spend 3x's as much vaping. But ...to each his own I guess. All in All, I found a device that does EVERYTHING it's suppose to and should do. More importantly...I found a device that does EVERYTHING I WANT AND NEED IT TO DO. I really hope this was able to be understood and everything I typed came out on the screen the way it was in my head...just easier to read. lol If anyone has any questions you can ALWAYS PM me anytime, would be my pleasure to answer any questions or help anyway I can. Take care folks. ................J

 

[cmdryker]

BTW anyone heard from 2tone,,, never answered me when sent his $25 gift cert bout 2 weeks ago, usually calls me on the phone at least once a month,,,that hasn't happened either, just concerned, this is not like him to just stop contact, especially after winning my contest...

 

[orachel]

Oh eek. Man... people missing in threads seems to be going around. We're missing a regular in one of my other threads, and everyone is worried, and unfortunately, not much you can do about it in this format. Hope your 2tone shows up, and is ok, though!

And VAPNJ350... thank you SO much for that explanation. That actually really helps me, anyway. Does sound like an amazing device, all the way around.

 

[VapingTurtle]

Turtle bare with me on this

Jeremy, I appreciate you taking the time to write out this explanation.

I question some of your facts (which really makes me question many of your facts ); for example:

"Lets keep the voltage on the VMAX at 4 volts. The PWM in "most" units will only allow the coil to see 4V max to the coil but also dipping below 4v down to 3v maybe even 2.5v. The coil sees and is exposed to this range of voltages hypothetically 100 times a second. But the highest voltage the coil will see is the actual voltage that the device is set at (4V in this case)"

-- The only situation where the V_max equals the set voltage is at a 100% duty cycle.
-- I have never seen a PWM circuit in PVs where V_min wasn't 0.


J, can you post any screen shots of your scope output?


I truly believe that you really like the VMAX. It looks like a very, very nice APV! But, still, if it "hits harder" than it should (or other PVs do) at a given indicated voltage (as the VMAX is reputed to do), it is likely due to inaccurate voltage regulation. It's physics, not voodoo.

 

[Errol]

I have a digital VOM, but no scope. I can't afford to buy more than one device anyway to test...thus my questions. ;-)
a regul
What I'd like to see, and so far haven't seen, is a straight-up test between say a Ovale V8, a Vmax and/or ar LT and a Provari since it seems to be the standard. IIRC, they all use PWM don't they? I think they all do similar VV voltages too, though with different batts...could be wrong there.

Busardo has reviews on the Lavatube and the Provarie pbusardo - YouTube

I can guarantee you will not get anything near the Vmax with your Ovali. My Ovalie doesn't even compare to the V1 2.5amp Lavatube though I suppose my Ovalie could be a dud. Haven't tested it for amp rating but just guessing it's closer to 2amp, about same as the Varistack I have.

Errol

 

[HawkeyeCS]

Now the V2 VMAX, FYI, the reason Im able to explain this a bit better is because I've done extremely thorough tests on my LeCroy 312-A 100 mHz Wavejet Oscilloscope which leaves NO stone unturned and is very very sophisticated in how it gets it's "true" readings. Ok the V2.....the V2 uses the same PWM, just fine tuned just a bit. Instead of the coil seeing the Max battery voltage they down tuned it just a bit. Instead of it using the max voltage , now it's about 1.75 volts less than whatever the max battery voltage is. And still dropping down to a 2.9v for the low side of the PWM, and using every voltage at the perfect milisecond for the perfect duration of time at that voltage to still get a 4v average overall.

So that's the difference between the v1 and v2... I had only heard that they changed the reset voltage to 3 and not 5... Good to know...

 

[VAPNJ350]

Jeremy, I appreciate you taking the time to write out this explanation.

I question some of your facts (which really makes me question many of your facts ); for example:

"Lets keep the voltage on the VMAX at 4 volts. The PWM in "most" units will only allow the coil to see 4V max to the coil but also dipping below 4v down to 3v maybe even 2.5v. The coil sees and is exposed to this range of voltages hypothetically 100 times a second. But the highest voltage the coil will see is the actual voltage that the device is set at (4V in this case)"

-- The only situation where the V_max equals the set voltage is at a 100% duty cycle.
-- I have never seen a PWM circuit in PVs where V_min wasn't 0.


J, can you post any screen shots of your scope output?


I truly believe that you really like the VMAX. It looks like a very, very nice APV! But, still, if it "hits harder" than it should (or other PVs do) at a given indicated voltage (as the VMAX is reputed to do), it is likely due to inaccurate voltage regulation. It's physics, not voodoo.

Turtle , I think I clearly said in my post as it was a "ANALOGY" NOT ACTUAL CONCRETE DATA !!! IT WAS STRICTLY TO HELP SOMEONE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW Pwm WORKS IN A VERY SIMPLE WAY. The numbers I came up with were in NO way to reflect actual data. C'Mon turtle, Im An ACTUAL Electrical Engineer, I was trying to keep it very easy to understand for people who have no clue how it works or what it even is.

 

[VAPNJ350]

So that's the difference between the v1 and v2... I had only heard that they changed the reset voltage to 3 and not 5... Good to know...

Thats "1" of the differences between V1 & v2, the others are yes the put the reset voltage to 3v on upstart, and now you can also turn off the red Led screen leaving only the blue button and screen background led light.

 

[VapingTurtle]

Turtle , I think I clearly said in my post as it was a "ANALOGY" NOT ACTUAL CONCRETE DATA !!! IT WAS STRICTLY TO HELP SOMEONE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW Pwm WORKS IN A VERY SIMPLE WAY. The numbers I came up with were in NO way to reflect actual data. C'Mon turtle, Im An ACTUAL Electrical Engineer, I was trying to keep it very easy to understand for people who have no clue how it works or what it even is.

Ok, I can appreciate that. Now, I already know a bit about, uh, ACTUAL Electrical Engineering. I have a clue. So, let's discuss this without the condescension.

So, lemme ask ya, the VTube (LT) 1.5/1.5t and probably the 2.0 coming Monday all use PWM. As does the Joye eGo and even the Joye 510. And plenty of other PVs, like the Evercool mods, and the Darwin. How does the VMAX's PWM differ? Why is it reputed to be so much hotter? Is the V_min really in the 2.5-3.0 volt range. If V_min is at 3.0v, do you mean the duty cycle is 0% when the setting is at 3.0v, and it is just a steady state low voltage? If so, the what do they use to reduce the voltage to that steady state?

These are just tech questions about the product that you support and like very much. No gotchas. I'm on your side if you have answers, and never mind hearing "I don't know, lemme look into that for you" if you don't.

 

[Errol]

So, is there just a wattage difference between the vtube/lavatube/vmax devices and the OvaleV8 or ????

The difference is how many watt a given APV can put out. The V1 LT is 2.5amp and approx 12watts. The V1.5 LT is 3amps = about 14.5watts. The latest Provari is 3.5amps = about 17watts and the Vmax is 5amps = about 24watts.

Watts will determine how much voltage you can apply to any given atomizer to get the vapor you want. A LR DC Carto require the most watts to meet your needs.

Tested my Ovale after my last post and it is indeed a 2.5amp unit like the V1 LT. The problem I was having that made me think it was less is that it kept cutting out which indicated to me that I was exceeding it's watts limit. Turns out I have a bad fire switch that has to be held down with much more pressure than I'm accustomed to, essentially a bad switch.

After checking it closer I now think it will meet your expectations.

Errol

 

[kaptkobe]

The difference is how many watt a given APV can put out. The V1 LT is 2.5amp and approx 12watts. The V1.5 LT is 3amps = about 14.5watts. The latest Provari is 3.5amps = about 17watts and the Vmax is 5amps = about 24watts.

Watts will determine how much voltage you can apply to any given atomizer to get the vapor you want. A LR DC Carto require the most watts to meet your needs.

Tested my Ovalie after my last post and it is indeed a 2.5amp unit like the V1 LT. The problem I was having that made me think it was less is that it kept cutting out which indicated to me that I was exceeding it's watts limit. Turns out I have a bad fire switch that has to be held down with much more pressure than I'm accustomed to, essentially a bad switch.

After checking it closer I now think it will meet your expectations.

Errol

The only thing with this is on these mods there is also a wattage limit.

The provape website claims 14.5 watts max on the provari.

There have been reports of a 9.5 watt limit for the LT 1.5.

The V-max, I don't know.

Maybe Jeremy can shed light on this.

It's not quite as simple as volts x ohms there are other things that get in the way (as with all things physics).

 

[Errol]

The only thing with this is on these mods there is also a wattage limit.

The provape website claims 14.5 watts max on the provari.

There have been reports of a 9.5 watt limit for the LT 1.5.

The V-max, I don't know.

Maybe Jeremy can shed light on this.

It's not quite as simple as volts x ohms there are other things that get in the way (as with all things physics).

That's why I used the words "approx" and "about". Have no knowledge on the Provari but I've done enough testing on the V1 and V1.5 LT to know those wattage numbers are pretty close.

Errol