Official ProVari 3 Thread - P3

[The Ocelot]

I just built my first dual-coil (Fogger V5). It came out to 1 ohms. I tried it on my usual 12 watts, but I was under-whelmed. It's probably due to my inexperience as a builder, anyway, I turned it up to 14...then 18 and at that point my P3 gave me an error.."output too high, lower watts/voltage". It should be able to fire a 1 ohm coil at 18 watts correct? Did I just build a crappy coil? It still did it when I turned Boost Off, btw.

I get confused when it comes to dual coils, but I think your issue might be the amps or voltage limit. I believe the P3 has a limit of 5 amps.

This is from tritrash13 from rebuildable-ecigs.com (The amp limit of the ProVari 2.5 is 3.5, but that doesn't affect his point):

"I've seen this popping up a lot lately and this is one I had researched back in the day. I don't pretend to be an expert, but this is what I found and it seems logical to me. More importantly it seems to be accurate in the way the vape "feels." If, however, you are an expert and I am wrong on this one please feel free to correct me because I would like to know that as well. For the sake of this discussion we will use the online Ohm's Law Calculator.

With a parallel dual coil setup (both coils connected directly to the positive and negative post(s) on the atomizer) you divide the ohms of one coil in half. So for example, two 3 ohm coils wouldn't be 6 ohms it would be 1.5 ohms. This is because the power coming to the atomizer is split with half of the power going to each coil. Thus, the results you get from the calculator don't apply to dual coils. Moreover, since the power is split between two atomizers, this means that the wattage is cut in half. The amps, however, would be the amps required to power a 3 ohm coil twice. Now let's assume we set our variable wattage device to 15 watts. So if we enter 3 ohms (the resistance of each individual coil) and 7.5 watts (the amount of power going to each coil) we see that we need 1.58 amps of current to power each coil for a total of 3.16 amps. Therefore, a device with a 3 amp limit would not be able to fully power a 1.5 ohm dual coil atomizer in a 15 watt setting. This equation also gives us the number 4.7 for volts. This is the voltage that a device would be putting out to power a 1.5 ohm dual coil atomizer at 15 watts. This is the clue to tell us how to reverse engineer our voltage numbers for those who don't have a variable watts device.

Using our 1.5 ohm dual coil atomizer, let's figure out what the maximum voltage is that we can vape at on a 3 amp device. Take the overall resistance of each individual coil (3 ohms) and enter that into the ohms section of the calculator. Now, enter the amp limit of your device in the amps section. For the sake of this experiment, we will use 3 amps as this is the limit on the ProVari 2.5 but we will divide the amps in half since that is what the atomizer is going to do with the current when it gets there. So we will enter 3 into the resistance field and 1.5 into the current field. This calculation tells us that we can vape a 1.5 ohm dual coil atomizer at a maximum setting of 4.5 volts on our ProVari.

Now, let's assume you have a 2.5 ohm dual coil cartomizer and you are going to use it on your provari. By entering 5 (the resistance of each coil) in the ohms and 1.5 (the current traveling to each coil) we see that we would be able to vape this at 7.5 volts without exceeding our amp limit. The device, however, only goes up to 6 volts. So let's figure out the wattage we are vaping at in a setting of 5.5 volts. Enter 5.5 (your device setting) into the volts field and 5 (the resistance of each coil) into the resistance field. This calculation gives us 1.1 amps and 6.05 watts. These numbers need to be doubled, however, as this is a measurement of the current traveling to and the wattage output of each individual coil. Therefore, in a 5.5 volt setting, our ProVari is firing a 2.5 ohm dual coil cartomizer at 12.1 watts and using 2.2 amps of current.

You can also use this calculator to help you determine if the device you are using is appropriate for the battery you are placing inside it. Let's say you intend to use a .5 ohm dual coil atomizer on a 4.2 volt battery. How many amps does this battery need to be capable of putting out to make this device fire? Enter 4.2 (the voltage of your fully charged battery) into the voltage field and 1 (the resistance in ohms of each individual coil) into the resistance field. This calculation tells us that we need 4.2 amps of current to power each coil, requiring a total of 8.4 amps of current for this device. I will now pause for you to remove that 18350 battery from your device. "

 

[HBcorpse]

I get confused when it comes to dual coils, but I think your issue is the amp limit. I believe the P3 has a limit of 5 amps.

This is from tritrach 13 from rebuildable-ecigs.com (The amp limit of the ProVari 2.5 is 3.5, but that doesn't affect his point):

"I've seen this popping up a lot lately and this is one I had researched back in the day. I don't pretend to be an expert, but this is what I found and it seems logical to me. More importantly it seems to be accurate in the way the vape "feels." If, however, you are an expert and I am wrong on this one please feel free to correct me because I would like to know that as well. For the sake of this discussion we will use the online Ohm's Law Calculator.

With a parallel dual coil setup (both coils connected directly to the positive and negative post(s) on the atomizer) you divide the ohms of one coil in half. So for example, two 3 ohm coils wouldn't be 6 ohms it would be 1.5 ohms. This is because the power coming to the atomizer is split with half of the power going to each coil. Thus, the results you get from the calculator don't apply to dual coils. Moreover, since the power is split between two atomizers, this means that the wattage is cut in half. The amps, however, would be the amps required to power a 3 ohm coil twice. Now let's assume we set our variable wattage device to 15 watts. So if we enter 3 ohms (the resistance of each individual coil) and 7.5 watts (the amount of power going to each coil) we see that we need 1.58 amps of current to power each coil for a total of 3.16 amps. Therefore, a device with a 3 amp limit would not be able to fully power a 1.5 ohm dual coil atomizer in a 15 watt setting. This equation also gives us the number 4.7 for volts. This is the voltage that a device would be putting out to power a 1.5 ohm dual coil atomizer at 15 watts. This is the clue to tell us how to reverse engineer our voltage numbers for those who don't have a variable watts device.

Using our 1.5 ohm dual coil atomizer, let's figure out what the maximum voltage is that we can vape at on a 3 amp device. Take the overall resistance of each individual coil (3 ohms) and enter that into the ohms section of the calculator. Now, enter the amp limit of your device in the amps section. For the sake of this experiment, we will use 3 amps as this is the limit on the ProVari 2.5 but we will divide the amps in half since that is what the atomizer is going to do with the current when it gets there. So we will enter 3 into the resistance field and 1.5 into the current field. This calculation tells us that we can vape a 1.5 ohm dual coil atomizer at a maximum setting of 4.5 volts on our ProVari.

Now, let's assume you have a 2.5 ohm dual coil cartomizer and you are going to use it on your provari. By entering 5 (the resistance of each coil) in the ohms and 1.5 (the current traveling to each coil) we see that we would be able to vape this at 7.5 volts without exceeding our amp limit. The device, however, only goes up to 6 volts. So let's figure out the wattage we are vaping at in a setting of 5.5 volts. Enter 5.5 (your device setting) into the volts field and 5 (the resistance of each coil) into the resistance field. This calculation gives us 1.1 amps and 6.05 watts. These numbers need to be doubled, however, as this is a measurement of the current traveling to and the wattage output of each individual coil. Therefore, in a 5.5 volt setting, our ProVari is firing a 2.5 ohm dual coil cartomizer at 12.1 watts and using 2.2 amps of current.

You can also use this calculator to help you determine if the device you are using is appropriate for the battery you are placing inside it. Let's say you intend to use a .5 ohm dual coil atomizer on a 4.2 volt battery. How many amps does this battery need to be capable of putting out to make this device fire? Enter 4.2 (the voltage of your fully charged battery) into the voltage field and 1 (the resistance in ohms of each individual coil) into the resistance field. This calculation tells us that we need 4.2 amps of current to power each coil, requiring a total of 8.4 amps of current for this device. I will now pause for you to remove that 18350 battery from your device. "

Slowly falling asleep...day two of turkey overdose...

Two things.
1. P3 is up to 5.5 amp limit now
2. The GE APPRENTICE app has an awesome OHM'S Law calculator in it, for those who want to use one for the wonderful maths discussed in the post above!
Great find! Who is this tritrach13? The Grand Wizard of Zappy Thingies?
:too smart:
Ok. Bye for now...turkey is winning.
[emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42]

 

[JohnD0406]

Pulled the trigger on a couple Provarinati P3 caps. One to use (most likely), one to keep "as a collector's item". Since I have the beta, the stock end cap has the smaller spring. Likewise, I'm using a v2.5 extension cap since I like the rounded edges, but I'll probably use the new P3 end cap. Provarinati end cap is just too cool to pass up. That, and Black Friday sale...

Also got the eGo kit. Partially because I'm a completist, partially because I still occasionally use the eGo sized tanks (some of which are heavily modified to work more to my liking), and it's time to retire the aging eGo batteries.

1st class mail - I have the virtue of patience with accessories - not so much with devices (thus why I have a beta).

 

[DEAc23]

Is the free shipping with the P3 Priority Mail or First Class?

 

[The Ocelot]

Slowly falling asleep...day two of turkey overdose...

Two things.
1. P3 is up to 5.5 amp limit now
2. The GE APPRENTICE app has an awesome OHM'S Law calculator in it, for those who want to use one for the wonderful maths discussed in the post above!
Great find! Who is this tritrach13? The Grand Wizard of Zappy Thingies?
:too smart:
Ok. Bye for now...turkey is winning.
[emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42][emoji42]

I didn't know it was 5.5 now, thanks for the update. I don't know tritrash13 (I spelled his name wrong before), but I do know he is much smarter than I am.

 

[The Ocelot]

Is the free shipping with the P3 Priority Mail or First Class?

Priority. Make sure you are home, you have to sign for the package.

 

[brickfollett]

Priority. Make sure you are home, you have to sign for the package.

I usually don't have to sign for those packages because I have a locked mailbox that usps has the key for. Very nice for me since I'm often working

 

[winder]

Just noticed the coating on the inner mating surfaces of the extension tubes on the black P3. This significantly decreases the amount of metal to metal contact, and restricts the path of electrical conductivity exclusively to the threads.

Wonder if the painted P3s are going to suffer inherently lower IQ scores vs their naked brethren if the threads aren't kept squeaky clean?

Might have to pass on getting a black one. I don't want to sign up for OCD cleaning rituals, or slathering on Magic Thread Butter.

 

[mariusk]

Don't post things like that. It makes me more confused. Now I have to figure out what you think is out of line. Stop it!!!

I just spent 5 minutes conducting an experiment to illustrate what I thought was how the battery gauge works. I was wrong. Now I don't understand how it works at all. Please don't anyone try to explain it, my mind has shut down. 93 IQ is only condescension at this point. I feel mocked.

It's quite easy to figure out how it works, the point is the information provided is useless.
Someone here mentioned a possible solution - to take a spare battery with you just in case, and that could be a workaround to the problem.
Without knowing, he admitted the battery gauge is useless.

The more I think of it, the more I get frustrated about the idea behind this gauge, and I got to a new conclusion:
It shows information using incompatible units. While it tries to display how much more can you go with your current settings,
it shows this information in percents, and not in time (or something else similar). And you can never know out of what these percents are.
If you put some atty and get 60%, there's no way for you to know what is 100%, so you cannot calculate how much battery you actually have remaining.

You also need to take into account there are many devices with battery gauges around us, all works the same but the Provari. You can never adapt.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, you can take a spare battery with you, you can spend some time trying to adapt to the new display, but
are we supposed to change the way we think and see things for the sake of a device ? It's quite the contrary - devices should adapt to us.
Bearing it is compromising for the sake of someone's idea. More is not always better.
I can say that with the new Provari I never knew when my battery was going to die. It just happened. With the previous model,
we had at least some flashing lights just before that. Now it's gone.

Someone mentioned that it's great for him, since in comparison to the previous Provari, you need to click less. Well, here at least we have something
to compare with, not as with the new battery gauge (remember ? 60% out of what ?)
But with the previous Provari, at least these 9 clicks showed the information you need, which is the battery level. With the new one, this information is not
available in any way. I also think the previous Provari interface design was genius. It was a huge innovation in comparison to what you can achieve
with a single button and a 7 segment display. With the new oled display, it could be perfected. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

Using a two parts display in 2014, at least in my opinion, is a design flaw. Especially if any of the parts hides some important information.
Of course you can compare it to the number of clicks in the previous version and be happy with it, but again, this is compromising.

Now you can say that they wanted to keep the display in a similar form factor to the previous model, and that is too small to contain
all of the information they want to display, and I can understand that. But interface design is an art, and this is what made the iphone
what it is, not its better processor or its better battery life.

This BOOST option could save some critical space on the display and eliminate the two parts display issue.
After all, what is boost ? It's all about heating a cold coil faster, so you won't need to wait a second between the click of the button and the vaping itself.
This could be calculated by the device and eliminated as an option from the menu AND the display. No one really cares if it's 1B, 2B or 5B.
What we really want is to get a good vape, and that the first one would be like the 5th, when the coil is hot already.
And this is exactly what the Provari used to be until now - simplicity. Now we have more options, but again, more is not always better.

When the new Provari was announced, I knew it's going to be revolutionary. It hasn't changed much in the recent years, so it must take a jump.
But I was born in Romania, and I'm tired of revolutions I said to myself that I must wait a few months for it to achieve some maturity.
But I couldn't help it, In the moment it was out - I got it.
Now I wouldn't mind taking that path with the device from immaturity to maturity, this could be fun and exciting in some manners, but the fact that
each time the devices take a step towards perfection I need to say goodbye to it for 3 weeks, it's too much for me.
If I could update it myself, it was a lot easier to bear.

 

[PLANofMAN]

I'm still holding out for a titanium Provarinati edition P3, but my resistance is slowly crumbling. When I start seeing used P3's in the classies, it will be impulse buy time.

Edit: there is no such thing as a titanium Provarinati P3. I told David if ProVape makes one, I'll volunteer for the difficult task of beta testing it.

 

[Peter_C]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...43-solar-charger-capable-charging-18650s.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/batteries-chargers/536777-solar-charging-18650-a.html

This one's on sale too - XTAR VP1 intelligent charger

I've bought the XTAR MP1 and plan to carry both my big battery 25,000MAH and 3-4 charged 18650s on camping trips. (This also provides light in camp, charges my Garmin 810, Kindle, and Shuffle, and iPhone 4)

 

[NicoHolic]

I just built my first dual-coil (Fogger V5). It came out to 1 ohms. I tried it on my usual 12 watts, but I was under-whelmed. It's probably due to my inexperience as a builder, anyway, I turned it up to 14...then 18 and at that point my P3 gave me an error.."output too high, lower watts/voltage". It should be able to fire a 1 ohm coil at 18 watts correct? Did I just build a crappy coil? It still did it when I turned Boost Off, btw.

If the ProVari is showing 0.7Ω to 1.8Ω for your coil, it should be able to fire it at 20 watts.

SQRT ( 20W / 0,7Ω ) = 5.35A and SQRT ( 20W x 0.7Ω ) = 3.74V - under the 5.5A limit and 6.0V capability

SQRT ( 20W / 1.8Ω ) = 3.33A and SQRT ( 20W x 1.8Ω ) = 6.00V - under the 5.5A limit and right at the 6.0V max capability

There are at least three other factors I'm aware of that can limit your output setting.

- One, as you note, is use of Boost. It needs some headroom to stay under 20W.

- One is the battery state of charge. As the battery approaches EMPTY, the maximum output power goes down.

- Another is the Input Quality (IQ). If the IQ is sufficiently low, the ProVari 3 will limit output to 15W. The battery and all connections quality influence that.

Hope this helps.

 

[mariusk]

I've bought the XTAR MP1 and plan to carry both my big battery 25,000MAH and 3-4 charged 18650s on camping trips. (This also provides light in camp, charges my Garmin 810, Kindle, and Shuffle, and iPhone 4)

I found a better mobile charger than the MP1.
Take a look at the Nitecore UM10. Same USB charging, but with some nice features:
http://www.nitecore.com/productDetail.aspx?id=130

 

[AstroTurf]

It's quite easy to figure out how it works, the point is the information provided is useless.
Someone here mentioned a possible solution - to take a spare battery with you just in case, and that could be a workaround to the problem.
Without knowing, he admitted the battery gauge is useless.

The more I think of it, the more I get frustrated about the idea behind this gauge, and I got to a new conclusion:
It shows information using incompatible units. While it tries to display how much more can you go with your current settings,
it shows this information in percents, and not in time (or something else similar). And you can never know out of what these percents are.
If you put some atty and get 60%, there's no way for you to know what is 100%, so you cannot calculate how much battery you actually have remaining.

You also need to take into account there are many devices with battery gauges around us, all works the same but the Provari. You can never adapt.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, you can take a spare battery with you, you can spend some time trying to adapt to the new display, but
are we supposed to change the way we think and see things for the sake of a device ? It's quite the contrary - devices should adapt to us.
Bearing it is compromising for the sake of someone's idea. More is not always better.
I can say that with the new Provari I never knew when my battery was going to die. It just happened. With the previous model,
we had at least some flashing lights just before that. Now it's gone.

Someone mentioned that it's great for him, since in comparison to the previous Provari, you need to click less. Well, here at least we have something
to compare with, not as with the new battery gauge (remember ? 60% out of what ?)
But with the previous Provari, at least these 9 clicks showed the information you need, which is the battery level. With the new one, this information is not
available in any way. I also think the previous Provari interface design was genius. It was a huge innovation in comparison to what you can achieve
with a single button and a 7 segment display. With the new oled display, it could be perfected. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

Using a two parts display in 2014, at least in my opinion, is a design flaw. Especially if any of the parts hides some important information.
Of course you can compare it to the number of clicks in the previous version and be happy with it, but again, this is compromising.

Now you can say that they wanted to keep the display in a similar form factor to the previous model, and that is too small to contain
all of the information they want to display, and I can understand that. But interface design is an art, and this is what made the iphone
what it is, not its better processor or its better battery life.

This BOOST option could save some critical space on the display and eliminate the two parts display issue.
After all, what is boost ? It's all about heating a cold coil faster, so you won't need to wait a second between the click of the button and the vaping itself.
This could be calculated by the device and eliminated as an option from the menu AND the display. No one really cares if it's 1B, 2B or 5B.
What we really want is to get a good vape, and that the first one would be like the 5th, when the coil is hot already.
And this is exactly what the Provari used to be until now - simplicity. Now we have more options, but again, more is not always better.

When the new Provari was announced, I knew it's going to be revolutionary. It hasn't changed much in the recent years, so it must take a jump.
But I was born in Romania, and I'm tired of revolutions I said to myself that I must wait a few months for it to achieve some maturity.
But I couldn't help it, In the moment it was out - I got it.
Now I wouldn't mind taking that path with the device from immaturity to maturity, this could be fun and exciting in some manners, but the fact that
each time the devices take a step towards perfection I need to say goodbye to it for 3 weeks, it's too much for me.
If I could update it myself, it was a lot easier to bear.

Thanks for sharing.

Whats the answer?

Thanks. Jim

 

[serenity21899]

Too lazy to read like 10 pages, so here the Kayfun 4 link (sorry if it was already given):

SvoëMesto | Connect!

 

[rbrylawski]

It's actually the IQ of your battery...and subsequent circuit path, i.e. threads and battery contact on the chip.
The higher the score, the better your battery.
IQ = Input Quality
So Provape finally created a Provari that will not only tell you when it has a problem, or if your atomizer has a problem...but it will also tell you if your battery has a problem!
The v2.5 could only do the first two things!

I understand this (kind of - sort of), but here's my confusion. I bought 4 brand spanking new AW 18490 new generation 1200 MAH batteries (not that I have a clue what MAH means?). I have like 5 AW 18490 1100 MAH batteries that I used with my 2.5. I would have expected the new batteries to make the IQ go up. Instead, they seem to read lower than my older 1100 AW's. The vape isn't any different. The batteries don't last any longer. So what should I have expected from the newer generation batteries?

Me confused.........

 

[NicoHolic]

Thanks for sharing.

Whats the answer?

According to this poster, the answer appears to be for ProVape to change the display so he always see the battery voltage he's used to seeing with Cb, instead of battery charge percentage remaining, preferably with only one click and without having to toggle between two main screens--boost information be damned. Ain't gonna happen.

My answer is that he gets his P3 fixed, in which case he'll find the new battery metering accurate and usable, if not what he's used to. That includes ensuring his early delivery P3 has the current version 36 software and the larger bored end cap with much larger, current spring, as well as ensuring his batteries are in good condition with IQ.

Of nine different batteries, I've never put a "fresh" (fully charged) battery, with an IQ of 80 or better, in the P3 and had it read less than 99%, regardless of topper or resistance. Certainly nowhere near 60%--unless I installed a battery I forgot to recharge.

With battery IQ around 95 and charge remaining around 50%, I've swapped in various attys from 1.1Ω to 3.0Ω and seen % remaining change/vary only within 3%--lower with higher resistances that require more voltage to maintain wattage (specifically, 57% down to 53% 54%).

I've pulled batteries and their measured voltage is about what I'd expect for percent of charge remaining. I have no problems with the new battery metering system.

 

[mariusk]

According to this poster, the answer appears to be for ProVape to change the display so he always see the battery voltage he's used to seeing with Cb, instead of battery charge percentage remaining, preferably with only one click and without having to toggle between two main screens--boost information be damned. Ain't gonna happen.

My answer is that he gets his P3 fixed, in which case he'll find the new battery metering accurate and usable, if not what he's used to. That includes ensuring his early delivery P3 has the current version 36 software and the larger bored end cap with much larger, current spring, as well as ensuring his batteries are in good condition with IQ.

Of nine different batteries, I've never put a "fresh" (fully charged) battery, with an IQ of 80 or better, in the P3 and had it read less than 99%, regardless of topper or resistance. Certainly nowhere near 60%--unless I installed a battery I forgot to recharge.

With battery IQ around 95 and charge remaining around 50%, I've swapped in various attys from 1.1Ω to 3.0Ω and seen % remaining change/vary only within 3%--lower with higher resistances that require more voltage to maintain wattage (specifically, 57% down to 53%).

I've pulled batteries and their measured voltage is about what I'd expect for percent of charge remaining. I have no problems with the new battery metering system.

My P3 is not an early delivery P3, but the release version, the retail one, with the larger bore end cap and spring.
The issue is not with my Provari.
But I do agree with you on one thing - "Ain't gonna happen.". Not in the near future anyway.
I'm really happy you can understand the current battery metering system, I wish I could feel the same.

 

[Mowgli]

Lol! u haz beated me.

Solar Charger | Multi-Use Solar Chargers For all Applications

Cottonpicker's solar charger Forum - http://www.cottonpickersplace.com/

The mega thread shows his solar panel development - --> FS: Cottonpickers Chargers incl. Worlds smallest Li-ion charger with display

Damn, I just saw he stopped production this month

 

[Fir3b1rd]

I do understand the logic of the Provari battery gauge, it's just that in my opinion, it's not providing the information I need.
If you already used cars gauges for the example, let me continue with this path -

While cars do have range gauges, they are not replacing the fuel level gauges.
For the sake of the example, imagine your car has only a range gauge, no fuel level gauge, and based on that information you need to calculate when to refuel.
When you're driving at a certain speed it will show you some numbers, and at another speed you'll be shown some different numbers.
You don't drive at the same speed all of the time, sometimes there are ups and downs, some other times you need to slow down.
And each time you make a change, the range gauge will provide different information.
You will never know how much fuel you actually have, but only how many miles you can drive based on your current driving.
You will have no information to be used as a reference to something you know. You will not be able to plan the refuel, because the information
changes in a way and based on so many parameters that the human brain cannot calculate. Not in real time anyway.

Now here's why your range gauge example was genius - this is exactly how the Provari battery gauge works -
You can never know how much battery you actually have, but only how much can you go with your current settings.
The issue is that your settings are changing all the time. You replace atomizers, coils, different resistances, you don't even vape
at the same power all of the time, not even in the same way. All of these parameters influence the Provari battery gauge, and with so
many details that make it change, you have no reference to something constant for you to compare.
If you're leaving your house for an hour and your Provari battery gauge shows 40%, what do you learn from that ?
Maybe one thing - if you'll continue to vape the same, without changing atomizers or power settings, and at the same rate,
you're having 40%. But even if you could vape at the same rate, these 40% are 40% in comparison to what? This is not a battery level gauge,
there's no such thing as 100%, it will always be affected by the above parameters.

I'm sure that Provape had good intentions behind this feature, but at least in my opinion, it doesn't hit the target.

The change of the battery gauge to a more classic one is inevitable.

Thank you so so so so so so so so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!