Official ProVari Radius Thread - Part 2

[ColoKaren]

I flashed to the CC firmware yesterday and after a glitch trying to use SS, I'm pretty happy with the change.

I had SS in a kayfun and after looking at the chart I tried H and I levels. Both were flamethrowers. I tried some of the other levels but kept getting power too high alarms and didn't feel like taking the time to investigate further.

So I took a Kabuki from another mod (1.8 coil), and installed it per the chart at G. A few changes on the power and it is giving really good results at G2. I was ready for this to NOT to be a thing, so I don't think it's my imagination that the vape is noticeably better than it's ever been. Very dense, great throat hit, and really flavorful. Mind you, the tank and juice was being used on a P3 so there was a clear comparison.

In my opinion, Pro Vape's engineers have once again shown their stuff. With their insistence on "if it's not 100% we won't produce it" the company ethic will not allow them to call it Temp Control, so therefore we get Coil Control and a bit of confusion.

In the real world, in the last 12 hours it's been doing temp control just as well as my Yihis and DNAs, but is a whole bunch easier. It's not quite to the Dicodes level yet, but is impressive for the first (and regrettably due to the FDA probably last) shot.

Again, trying not to add drama where it doesn't exist but I think this firmware is a major deal in the world of Provari. Other companies would have promoted and advertised a new chip with temp control. But Pro Vape seems to have just made a stealth release. The amazing thing is that the capability seems to have been there all along. Other companies produce a totally new board, but my Radius only had to get a firmware change.

I'll be working with the SS when I feel like messing around with getting the right profile. I hope I don't live to regret this possibly over-the-top post, but for right now I'm very, very impressed and just as much surprised.

Awesome post, and I'd never want folks to feel like enthusiasm is drama. I couldn't get a decent vape on my factory Nautilus coil, and I'm so glad you could on a different tank.

I should have rung the bells better for PV, 'cause you're dead on. Pulling this rabbit out at the 11th hour before the deeming, and doing it with a simple firmware upgrade is pretty amazing.

BTW, my read of the deeming tells me that while software is an included item requiring approval, dot releases of software would not be. All PV would need to do after Aug 8 is release 40cc.a1, etc. and be in compliance. Well done, Provape.

 

[ColoKaren]

Anyone have any suggestions on the best wire to buy so I can try this 'CC' with my Kayfun 5. I've been using 28 gauge kanthal, 7 wraps, 1.4 ohms. Seems like the resistance is so much more different on these other types of metal/wire. Looking for the best flavor/battery life. Anyone have any suggestions on the best thing to play around with. Never really messed with temp control all that much.

I couldn't tell from your post whether you realize that Kanthal can't be used in coil control mode. I also use 28ga Kanthal in my RBAs, but mine are gennies using SS mesh that I think will be conductive with other kinds of wire, like SS.

The types of wire that other TC rigs can take are titanium, SS, nickel, and various other mixes that include nickel like Nichrome. I'm staying away from nickel because it emits a nasty substance at high temps. (I recall that someone wrote a blog about that on ECF.)

I would love to hear if anyone has luck using titanium, since I'm not up for guinea pigging an SS wire on an SS wick.

 

[USMCotaku]

It's just temperature guessing by a different name though, no?

Seems so....but the feel of the vape is completely different to tc. Doesn't hurt to try it out....can always roll back the update if you find you dont like it.....or just use it n watt mode

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

 

[access0denied]

I couldn't tell from your post whether you realize that Kanthal can't be used in coil control mode. I also use 28ga Kanthal in my RBAs, but mine are gennies using SS mesh that I think will be conductive with other kinds of wire, like SS.

The types of wire that other TC rigs can take are titanium, SS, nickel, and various other mixes that include nickel like Nichrome. I'm staying away from nickel because it emits a nasty substance at high temps. (I recall that someone wrote a blog about that on ECF.)

I would love to hear if anyone has luck using titanium, since I'm not up for guinea pigging an SS wire on an SS wick.

Yes, I'm aware that I can't use kanthal on coil control. But what works best in the Kayfun v5 and the Radius. Stainless Steel? Titanium? Nichrome? Looking at the different types of wire that usually works with temp control makes my head spin. Wish I had tons of different wire laying around to play with. But I hate walking into the vape shops, and really don't wanna order the wrong stuff.

 

[USMCotaku]

I dunno. Don't need it cluttering up the menu mostly.

All ot adds to the main menu is heat and watt mode [emoji14]

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

 

[h00ligan]

Anyone have any suggestions on the best wire to buy so I can try this 'CC' with my Kayfun 5. I've been using 28 gauge kanthal, 7 wraps, 1.4 ohms. Seems like the resistance is so much more different on these other types of metal/wire. Looking for the best flavor/battery life. Anyone have any suggestions on the best thing to play around with. Never really messed with temp control all that much.

Stainless 28 gauge 304 and up will
Work. I'm not thrilled with my 1 ohm builds though. Not much variation. It's either very warm or not working. Ok guessing I need to build lower resistance to get more control as its preset for lower builds. Honestly the nichrome 80 is working better for vape quality but has the occasional issue on set. I'm still trying. I'm using a Clapton wire now 28/36 stainless / kanthal. It's $10 for 30'ft and the flavor is very good. The resistance isn't far off from regular kanthal nor does it take much time to heat. It's the smallest Clapton I know of

Bear in mind this is a taifun gt2 so that is a pretty slender wire. Nothing like he Clapton wire used by sub ohm vaping which is substantially larger. This is about 1/3 the diameter or your standard 26/32 Clapton wire.

It's working well regarding preventing dry hits. It's a pretty warm vape. And there aren't many settings that work. Only i 1-7 for this build. Anything else commands me to increase the alpha or level.

That all said if you like a warm vape the flavor is outstanding.

 

[ColoKaren]

Yes, I'm aware that I can't use kanthal on coil control. But what works best in the Kayfun v5 and the Radius. Stainless Steel? Titanium? Nichrome? Looking at the different types of wire that usually works with temp control makes my head spin. Wish I had tons of different wire laying around to play with. But I hate walking into the vape shops, and really don't wanna order the wrong stuff.

[better answer above]

 

[h00ligan]

I couldn't tell from your post whether you realize that Kanthal can't be used in coil control mode. I also use 28ga Kanthal in my RBAs, but mine are gennies using SS mesh that I think will be conductive with other kinds of wire, like SS.

The types of wire that other TC rigs can take are titanium, SS, nickel, and various other mixes that include nickel like Nichrome. I'm staying away from nickel because it emits a nasty substance at high temps. (I recall that someone wrote a blog about that on ECF.)

I would love to hear if anyone has luck using titanium, since I'm not up for guinea pigging an SS wire on an SS wick.

You'd have to hear nickel to 2000 degrees or so for it to be an issue n something temp control is designed to avoid. Unless you dry burn it isn't close to being an issue. Same with nichrome. Stainless steel under 430 has nickel too I believe. If you don't care for the soft nature of nickel and typically would run current to make jt more firm you can get tempered nickel.

There's arguably more of an issue with titanium and that's not even a problem. Kanthal is the one wire that's widely used and we know the least about in terms of toxins. Arguably it's more of a risk to use and dry burn than anything else. And the temperatures the wire is used in a temp control mod and without igniting wick and rendering it impossible to inhale you're not risking Anything. Nichrome has been studied intensively as it was widely used in cigalikes and he toxic nature of nickel is well known from other industry. I can find some white papers and scientific documentation if you care to read it. As a general rule if you want to be as safe as possible stay away from kanthal and don't dry burn. Counter to what most vaping logic says.

As an aside I smoked for 20 years and never considered remotely the content of the cigarettes like most do for vaping. And while vaping shouldn't be compared to smoking as its not even the same sport - if we are concerned with maximum harm reduction then we want to stick to heavily studied wire (stainless, nickel, titanium) and you need to clean it with acetone - then soak in water and rinse thoroughly.

The one concern about nickel is that unused a nasty oil for cleaning. As with any wire the quality of the vendor has a lot to do with how good or bad the wire is. If harm reduction is the goal then absolutely you wouldn't vape any wire that was not cleaned thoroughly by you. Bud you vape kanthal iff a spool or dry burn you're likely exposing yourself to m more risk due to industrial chemical cleaning agents and residue than any clean titanium or nickel.

Finally the material surrounding the wire exposed to large amounts of heat would stand an equal chance of polluting the process. So if you're using boutique clones made in China or inexpensive mass produced tanks not only will they need to be thoroughly cleaned you need to consider how likely timid the material is truly as advertised. No articulately the small
Parts like deck screws.

Even in the worst case of a dirty wire in a dirty dl tank with the worst wire and liquid comprised of all the "bad things" like diacytl etc. you're still not in the same ballpark as risk from one analog cigarette. Something I used twenty times w day minimum for twenty years without ever examining the ingredients or combustion process of.


I applaud your desire to stick to harm reduction as much as possible. It is however important to point it such concerns need to be firmly rooted in science and fully recognized as substantially less risky than the analog cigarettes or which many of us partook regularly.


This may be of interest
http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/archives/8337

"I’m attaching the Goniewicz research paper which is one often cited by those on both sides of the e-cigarette safety debate. The study looked at products using nichrome heating coils. And yes, they measured nickel. The study also looked for carbon monoxide in the vapor stream and found none. Zero. The following excerpt is from the study:

The amounts of toxic metals and aldehydes in e-cigarettes are trace amounts and are comparable with amounts contained in an examined therapeutic product.”

Dr. Michael Siegel said of the Goniewicz paper:

“The most important finding in this study (that the authors failed to acknowledge) was that all of the trace levels of metals they found in e-cigarette aerosol were within permissible exposure limits for FDA approved inhalable drugs and devices (e.g. nicotine inhaler, asthma inhalers) per Pharmacopeial Convention.”

Basically it boils down to anything a Nickel 200 coil would do, a nichrome coil would already be doing (and worse due to higher temperatures) and nichrome coils are the only ones that have been studied in any meaningful detail by the real scientists, labs and MDs.

What Kanthal is or is not doing, we cannot say as we haven’t really studied it.

 

[h00ligan]

Bear in mind the minimum resistance necessary for coil control is very high. You can't use nickel. Titanium may even be tough depending. You'd perhaps want to go with 29 or 30 gauge titanium or nife48 neither of which is likely to be around at local vape shops. Stainless is your best bet for local material. I have not been able to get a build working at .35 With nife48

If you buy nickel you're going to be in the .05-.15 range with the coil. Far too low for this device.

I personally don't care for the flavor of titanium or working with building it. If you do get some titanium make sure it's grade 1 and you probably do want to stick to 29-30 gauge if you vape
Mouth to lung (not direct lung) so you don't run into minimum resistance issues. Local shops are more likely to carry these materials in 24-28 gauge. So stainless really is the answer. I find 304 and 326 build more easily and five better results than 430. And in discussing safety anything above food grade (304) is fine - so don't get caught up in paying for the "better" wire which is 430 and has a much lower tcr and therefore is not as good for temp control.

 

[ColoKaren]

Great info, @h00ligan . My favored gennies (Sat22 and Nahualons) have incredibly tight tolerances, and anything bigger than 28ga won't work well. I worry that SS wire on SS wicks would hard short. What are your thoughts on that, learned one?

 

[h00ligan]

Great info, @h00ligan . My favored gennies (Sat22 and Nahualons) have incredibly tight tolerances, and anything bigger than 28ga won't work well. I worry that SS wire on SS wicks would hard short. What are your thoughts on that, learned one?

If you properly prepare the mesh by torching I can't see an issue. I've never had one that wasn't caused by missing spots during prep but I haven't used mesh a whole lot. I do like it. I can try a stainless build with mesh but my guess is torched properly and patiently it's nonissue.

For kanthal I'm a huge fan of 29 gauge to which I recently switched. For stainless it's sued a low resistance it heats up fast anyway.

 

[ColoKaren]

If you properly prepare the mesh by torching I can't see an issue. I've never had one that wasn't caused by missing spots during prep but I haven't used mesh a whole lot. I do like it. I can try a stainless build with mesh but my guess is torched properly and patiently it's nonissue.

For kanthal I'm a huge fan of 29 gauge to which I recently switched. For stainless it's sued a low resistance it heats up fast anyway.

What a gift your willingness to share your knowledge is to me and this community. Just had to say this explicitly.

Of course, I worry that my torching will be insufficient! I've only used a silly long-handled lighter to torch my mesh, and due to my busted arm and hand, recently bought out ElectrnicSticks supply of pre-rolled mesh. I'm just torching each spot until it's red, then torching again. Should I use a presumably more robust (hotter flame?) propane torch, and/or not trust that the job is good enough on the pre-rolls?

I need to build all 30 of my atties in anticipation of a surgery on my wrist next month (full cast over my elbow), as I won't be able to tinker during the 3 months of recovery. The no dry hits from TC would be a wonderful problem solver, if I can get the mesh to play nicely with coil.

 

[h00ligan]

What a gift your willingness to share your knowledge is to me and this community. Just had to say this explicitly.

Of course, I worry that my torching will be insufficient! I've only used a silly long-handled lighter to torch my mesh, and due to my busted arm and hand, recently bought out ElectrnicSticks supply of pre-rolled mesh. I'm just torching each spot until it's red, then torching again. Should I use a presumably more robust (hotter flame?) propane torch, and/or not trust that the job is good enough on the pre-rolls?

I need to build all 30 of my atties in anticipation of a surgery on my wrist next month (full cast over my elbow), as I won't be able to tinker during the 3 months of recovery. The no dry hits from TC would be a wonderful problem solver, if I can get the mesh to play nicely with coil.

Oh I'm sorry to hear that you're going through that. I just went through the ore build thing myself before my two alien surgeries. I still can't build much comparatively the pre op n it's miserable.

I would imagine they prep them properly but I've not used the premade stuff. I have a zippo with torch insert I use. It may be worth getting one of those disposable torches m just because it works so quickly and doesn't give many issues with heat but w regular lighter should work. Given the mini "crack lighters" are pretty inexpensive and that you have so many premade. Why not try one and see what happens. If you are using a regulated mod it shouldn't be a real issue. Protection should cover it fine. Obviously don't test on a mech mod. I can't imagine anyone selling ore rolled mesh that isn't ready to use. Did the description say it was ready to use mesh wicks ? Or just or rolled mesh for wicks ?

Glowing red would do it. The outside layer is all that matters really. And make sure you get the ends really well. Not you can get it flowing then it's fine.

I apologise for the length of my posts in here all. I'll try to be more succinct

 

[ColoKaren]

Oh I'm sorry to hear that you're going through that. I just went through the ore build thing myself before my two alien surgeries. I still can't build much comparatively the pre op n it's miserable.

I would imagine they prep them properly but I've not used the premade stuff. I have a zippo with torch insert I use. It may be worth getting one of those disposable torches m just because it works so quickly and doesn't give many issues with heat but w regular lighter should work. Given the mini "crack lighters" are pretty inexpensive and that you have so many premade. Why not try one and see what happens. If you are using a regulated mod it shouldn't be a real issue. Protection should cover it fine. Obviously don't test on a mech mod. I can't imagine anyone selling ore rolled mesh that isn't ready to use. Did the description say it was ready to use mesh wicks ? Or just or rolled mesh for wicks ?

Glowing red would do it. The outside layer is all that matters really. And make sure you get the ends really well. Not you can get it flowing then it's fine.

Yeah, I'm really done with the pain and the whole nuisance of this injury. I'm so sad you've gone through this mill!

Just had an MRI on my shoulder to see if I tore something in there too. First surgery repaired a disasterized elbow ligament, second will repair ulnar nerve and carpal ligament. Chronic pain makes workable issues like the deeming look like Mt. Everest, and I'm just so done with it all.

The pre-rolls weren't advertised as having been torched, although the folks there said they were ready to go. The wicks look untorched to me, so I lit them up. Sounds like what I do is sufficient. I've had zero issues on my mechs, but I test on my old P2.5s. That's why I run at only 1-1.3 ohms--they have to test and run on those older Provis, even if not for long-term.

I'm looking for 304 or 316 SS in 28ga now. Bless you and your cotton socks for your terrific advice and commiseration...

 

[jwbnyc]

Sorry about dropping off last night, the sandman got me.

I can't find anything with the red or yellow icons. I do remember them from previous windows versions. Can you, or anyone else find the files on your computers and let me know what the were named, and where you found them? Maybe if I can search for files/folders I can see if the install went correctly. I think my problem shows up after the reboot step when you plug in the Provari and Windows is supposed to notice a new device and start installing it. My PC is not noticing that I attached a new device to it.

I did start a help ticket with Provape last night to see if they have any ideas.

It seems like the windows is not recognizing that I have added a hardware device to the system, and when I tell it to search for new devices it wants bluetooth or wireless. The batteries charge when I hook up to the PC, so at least that part works.

Thank you for helping me out.

Not on Windows, but had this problem on a Mac with one Radius not being recognized.

What worked was turning the Radius off and then on again, then trying again.

The file (on a Mac) is ProVariRadiusProgrammer-1.0.1.dmg

 

[cats5365]

Not on Windows, but had this problem on a Mac with one Radius not being recognized.

What worked was turning the Radius off and then on again, then trying again.

The file (on a Mac) is ProVariRadiusProgrammer-1.0.1.dmg

I just tried the on/off with 3 different radii, and none of them were found. I still haven't heard from Provape either.

 

[h00ligan]

I just tried the on/off with 3 different radii, and none of them were found. I still haven't heard from Provape either.

We can proceed if you end up
Waiting. Then issue must be that Windows installed its own generic sub driver. We just have to remove it and reinstall

I suppose you could use Windows system restore to go back to before you'd installed anything provape. That may be the easiest thing. There should be s list of dates and times. You can choose the one just before you installed for the first time.


Windows 8.1 right ? If it's later than 7 system restore works pretty well and doesn't have he issues associated with it previously as Windows 8 on are copy installs (generic to all
Machines rather than customized on install for each)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17085/windows-8-restore-refresh-reset-pc

You can go through this process restore to before you'd installed anything (make sure you reboot when needed and once before you start and once after drivers are installed) it doesn't delete data. You won't lose files or emails or anything you've done it just deals with modified Windows files.

Then run the installer as administrator. If you're in anything before 8 I would not recommend system restore.

 

[h00ligan]

Yeah, I'm really done with the pain and the whole nuisance of this injury. I'm so sad you've gone through this mill!


...

I'm looking for 304 or 316 SS in 28ga now. Bless you and your cotton socks for your terrific advice and commiseration...

I went through three months of treatment for shoulder tear before they realized times a cervical spine issue. What s pain. I still have two more surgeries on my lower back and a minor brain surgery to go. So far the first two surgeries have not helped in the way i had hoped and the pain is awful still. :/

Sounds like Younhave the vaping stuff all sorted out.

I'm about to run dry on my Clapton build and so ill see if it works well to sense a properly dry coil. Fingers crossed.


There is w seller in eBay selling 316L by weight. It's something like 2500 ft for $20. I bought it. I also have stainless from many other places. They being the stainless rods in themselves and make the wire. I had a long talk via email with them when is originally thought it may be 304. At any rate the wire works really well. Compared to other much more expensive stainless I actually think the bulk wire works better on most of my temp control devices and in wattage mode. I'll head back with a link to the item in a minute.


I need to find my spool. Too many 316 sellers. I need the name. I'll post it this evening they're out of Canada - may be the canaria wire company or something like that.

 

[Kasanova]

Just seen the email about the 60W radius. Where are the people that said that "Provape will never make a single 18650 device that goes that high"? I guess Provape is feeling the heat from the competitions.

Anyways, I'm not here to be bad. I'm actually excited that Provape is finally coming into the times of usable wattage and giving more people a selection of fine devices. If it wasn't for my second Q-Class, I would've picked up a Black Onyx to match my car. I only do vape at 50-52 watts. We shall see and if a dual 18650 mod comes out at us as a surprise. I'm just hoping I will have the funds for that

 

[h00ligan]

Do remember that stainless steel wire is welding wire - even the high end stuff is repackaged. The difference in bulk buy and small Spool is how clean it is. The ire I bought in bulk is as clean to The human eye as any other I've tried. However k still wash my wire with degreasing soap after wiping it down with rubbing alcohol. I take off several
Feet and rewrap during which time I do the alcohol cleanse and then I wash and rinse as I'm getting ready to coil.

It's probably overkill. I've gained it straight off the spool with 0 taste difference or side effects. The wire looks clean and runs through my fingers clean. Much cleaner than many a filthy roll Of kanthal. But be aware as we talk about stainless steel it's welding wire. I don't want anyone to freak it if you vape it for six months then learn that and think you've been poisoning yourself.


Point at which toxins are released is 5000-6000 degrees F. Once again. Don't dry burn temp control wires. And if you do, pulse the power.

If you know you're the type of
Person to obsess about harm reduction buy 317L. Read the Wikipedia entry on stainless numbering and you'll see there's not much in it and the higher numbers don't always mean better. Higher can be harder to deal with due to spring back.


Just wanted to add that if anyone goes looking for bulk wire on eBay. It's all Over the place. Gplat is one name.