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Ontario Ministry of Labour called upon for a ruling of unsafe work.

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fourtytwo

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I'm playing devil's advocate here.

There are several factors to consider here before going to the next level.

The MOL and the employer likely have slightly different views on the situation.
The employer would not have any strong views on the issue except to wish that the discussion just go away and everyone just go back to work.
The fact that MOL was brought in to make the decision would indicate that they really don't want the responsibility of making the final decision. Any activity to grant greater rights then outlined by the MOL decision would not be in their best interest unless mandated by another party such as the MOL.
Inertia can be a very good weapon but it is double edged.
Their view would be that the issue is closed and refer to the MOL decision in all cases relating to vaping. The only way to move them on this would be if the consequences of not doing so were greater then this incident. For instance, bad publicity in the media or if a lot more people complained then the handful involved in the original incident.

The MOL, on the other hand, would see this current decision as a good compromise and would not look favourably at the prospect of reversing itself on a decision they just made.
They would not like to take into account any new data you might provide as it might seem that the other decision could be flawed as it did not review all relevant data.
Their view would be to refer any questions on vaping in the workplace to the past decision. They would have very little incentive to re-open the issue unless there are greater external or internal pressures to do so (such as those already listed above).
 

Projectguy

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Has anyone considered taking this to the media?
It seems to me that the whole "management siding with the worker against the Union" thing is just the kind of thing the news likes doing stories about.

The employer is not yet ready for that and the union local in this case "is off the reservation" or is a rogue. Remember union members are where the majority of smokers are found in the demographic.

For a media blitz to be a winning proposition for all, the employer * would have to be well educated, ready and willing. We want a winning outcome we need the employer * to side with the vapers because it will have to defend the "next step" being vaping in the work place.

Why is this such a big deal? Read the MOL report; the employer is the province of Ontario
 

RollandOfGilead

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Wow slow hand I've been checking back here every now and then and that reoprt was a big step in the right direction. It really sucks that it had to come to this and you have so many against you at work. But in a sense this outcome is a positive one and if pushed a little harder you might be able to vape in the workplace. OTOH you should definately be pushing the harassment part and getting at the very least formal apologies from all the A-holes.
 

GoatScrote

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Fourtytwo, I'm not talking about questioning or reversing MOL's decision, I'm talking about the policy created by the joint health and safety committee at our building. These were the people who basically started all this, then the people refusing to work forced the MOL into their investigation. I'm real good with the MOL's decision, although I do wish they'd have talked to some of us vapers as part of a fair investigation. It's the JH&S policy I'd like to reverse, because now with the MOL report, that policy is unsupported by fact.
 

shades

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oatmeal-man-hug.jpg

for you both that survived this ^%!@&^%!^@% poopie stinkie bum bum stuff!

(those last words mighta crossed a line sorry for the potty mouth)
 

fourtytwo

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Fourtytwo, I'm not talking about questioning or reversing MOL's decision, I'm talking about the policy created by the joint health and safety committee at our building. These were the people who basically started all this, then the people refusing to work forced the MOL into their investigation. I'm real good with the MOL's decision, although I do wish they'd have talked to some of us vapers as part of a fair investigation. It's the JH&S policy I'd like to reverse, because now with the MOL report, that policy is unsupported by fact.

Then the battle continues.
 

SloHand

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Update. Just got out of a debrief on this issue. Short and sweet (for the time being);

- One of the two bargaining units in this issue has made it clear to management that they were not in on this push to get vaping banned. Really?!? I guess they were just along for the ride? Can't be an innocent bystander.

- One of the three refusers has indicated he will appeal the MOL decision. They must complete an Application for Review, setting out the facts and reasons for the application within 30 days of service of the order or notice On what grounds?!?

- Management has also been put on notice by the bargaining unit that a new tact/strategy will be utilized as they are not satisfied.

:facepalm:
 

DuaneNeveu

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Update. Just got out of a debrief on this issue. Short and sweet (for the time being);

- One of the two bargaining units in this issue has made it clear to management that they were not in on this push to get vaping banned. Really?!? I guess they were just along for the ride? Can't be an innocent bystander.

- One of the three refusers has indicated he will appeal the MOL decision. They must complete an Application for Review, setting out the facts and reasons for the application within 30 days of service of the order or notice On what grounds?!?

- Management has also been put on notice by the bargaining unit that a new tact/strategy will be utilized as they are not satisfied.

:facepalm:

Sweet Jesus! Do any of these people have thumbs?
 

SloHand

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We are beginning to consider a worthy reporter to give this scoop to. Of course I thought of Jesse Kline right away from the National Post but are there any other suggestion on a reporter that would give this a fair hearing?

This story has (in no particular order);
- the poison workplace
- union misrepresentation
- waist of taxpayers money
- health and safety
- scaremongering
- facts up the ying-yang
- government inaction (Federally as well as Provincially)
- public ignorance
- anti-smoking vs harm reduction

Sure I've missed some ...
 

trishdadish

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One of the three refusers has indicated he will appeal the MOL decision. They must complete an Application for Review, setting out the facts and reasons for the application within 30 days of service of the order or notice On what grounds?!?



Wow, I truly feel for you. It is sad to see someone using the protections that unions fought so hard for being twisted to serve some personal vendetta. When they originally created the right to refuse work, it was because people's lives were genuinely being affected by horrible conditions. I can't believe how these people can somehow make the same comparison. you're not in their face, hotboxing vape in their cubicle. You just simply want to be left alone. This is out right harassment. Keep cool, I wouldnt be surprised if management is as sick of this whole issue as you are, and I wouldn't doubt they've had a few private discussions on how to get rid of these people.Just a question, is the JH&S committee making trouble for the smokers too? Or just the vapers?
 

GoatScrote

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JH&S isn't doing anything about the smokers, just us. The thing that really gets me isn't just that people are abusing the protection of my union, it's that the union is using it's protections against me. One if the refusers is the acting president of my local union. I can't for the life of me figure out what their issue is with vaping. It makes me laugh, but it's the laugh of the maniacally downtrodden slipping into the mouth of madness. Anyway, I've reached out above my local, since I haven't received a response from them and it's been a week. I give this another week then I might be forced to seek action legally and / or publicly. This game they're playing is ridiculous.
 

SloHand

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Just a question, is the JH&S committee making trouble for the smokers too? Or just the vapers?

Thanks Trish, love your post. You nailed it on the head. Having been a union president for flight attendants I can tell you that the right of refusal of unsafe work was very important and taken quite seriously. This is a joke.

As for your question .... no ... clouds of cigarette smoke are what we all have to walk through in and out of the building. There is no way around it.

I don't want to sound like a hypocrite because I was one of those smokers once upon a time but my tolerance grows thinner by the day.

LOL ... Goat your a quicker responder than I am.
 
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